beaver90 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Being an alumnus of BHS, I still can't believe people would say the 2004 team is the best of all time. Thats insane.. you think they could battle with the '97 or '96 teams? Give me a break. That would basically be saying people like David Perdue and Quinton Steptoe and Derrick are better than Shawn Dews, Lenny Johnson, Jack Wright, Rick Dissibio, Yubrenal Isabelle, Charlie Tynes, Donald Amaker, and I'll even throw Tremayne Bennett in there. Lets go to the offensive line.. those Siers twins (who both weigh about 170 lbs at the most) going up against Kyle Croye, Shaun Beasley or Setti (sp?) Leggett. Are you kidding?! Those mid to late-90's group of athletes at Bluefield were just a different breed.. you ask any of the area teams about them. Those guys are like men among boys when compared to this year's team. People need to get off the bandwagon and realize yes these guys this year were outstanding and deserve a state title, but they were not even NEAR the talent level of year's past. This year's team, IN MY OPINION, I don't think is any better than the '99 team or '03 team either. Yes, that same '99 team that got blown out by Wyoming East. You go position by position, and you see a backfield of Donald Amaker (who was faster than any guy on this year's team could dream to be), Tremayne Bennett, and Craig Bauer (who as a FB, was bigger than any guy on this year's team). And the QB position was arguably better with Jarrod Sudduth(playing with a more consistent offense than this year's) with receivers like J.J. Patton and Jason Thompson. This year's team, talent wise, still was not near their level. As for last year's team, one word sums them up: underachievers. You stick this year's coaching staff with last year's talent, you have one dominating football team. I won't dwell on last year, but I'll say they were also more talented, just didn't perform to the level they needed to. Now as much as I'm sounding like I'm from Poca, Wayne, or even Princeton, I'm not. I'm just stating a point as to who is the best BHS team of all time. If you asked me, I would say '96 hands down. And no, they didn't even win the title game, but they were the deepest and most talented BHS team I had ever seen. If not for the more questionable QB switch in BHS history after Glen Keene separated his shoulder against East Bank, they would have won the title. So there you go - let the debate begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sources 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I couldn't have said it better myself, beaver90. The 1997 Bluefield team had everything you could ever want in a football team; speed, size, athleticism, and players who liked to lay the big hits. During my senior year of football, we watched the highlight film of the 1997 season and that team was the real deal. As for the 1999 team, I agree. That team never got the credit it deserved because of the way East beat them in Wheeling. We played the hardest schedule in the state that year, hands down. I remember the big comeback at Pulaski above all others and who could forget the record setting shootout we had with Liberty-Harrison in the second round at Mitchell Stadium. If there hadn't been several key injuries such as Mike Williams and J.J., that title game may have gone drastically different. It's just hard to stick a freshman the size of Jon Murrary in the secondary and ask him to stop a runner like Tank when he was running behind a FB and line the caliber WE had that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total 12 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 the only thing i would disagree with is your observation of QB... Rusty was a far better QB then Jarod Sudduth was. J.J. Patton and Jason Thompson weren't as athletic as Davis and Repass and they didn't have the numbers. all Sudduth had to do was turn around and hand the ball off to Tynes or Amaker and watch the cloud of dust as they went for 60 - 80 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield_Rules 46 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 As I said on the other thread, I love the 2004 team, but the 1997 was just simply nasty. They had the size, speed, and athletes of a small, good college team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverball 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I will also have to say that Rusty was a better qb than Sudduth. Tynes and Amaker were better than this years backfield also. In my oriinal post I stated OVERALL team though and this includes coaching, leadership, and a will to win. This years team had a much better defense than the 1999 team. IMO the 99 team were over achievers who gave up 57 points to Wyoming East in the title game. As someone stated the 96 team would have won the title if not for the injury to Keene in the semi's against East Bank. East Bank had a very good team that year also and I'm not so sure Blfd would have beaten them with or without Keene at qb and besides Blfd was basically a one man show that year in Isabelle and this years team was definetely not a one man show. Yes the 97 team was mean and nasty but this years team had some meaness and nastiness in them also and all year long we witnessed big hit after big hit. The 97 team had an overall better and more consistent offense but I would rate the defenses even. This years kicking game was alot better also. Finally, this years team had alot better coaching and were just plain fun to watch. No one knew what was coming as they found the passing game that they had lacked in the previous years. Now to the 03 team. Yes that team was very good and should have won the title, but for various resons they did not. I believe this years team would beat the 96, 97, 99, or 03 teams simply based on coaching and the excellent senior leadership they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sources 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Can you legitimately tell me that the 2004 Bluefield defense would have been able to stop the likes of Donald Amaker, Tremayne Bennett, Charlie Tynes, and Yubrenelle Isabelle? I realize you're supporting your team, but at some point reality has to make an appearance in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaver90 10 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I commend you for supporting your team, but as Sources said, you think this year's team could beat EVERY one of those teams?! Thats absolutely insane, and I thought about numerous people last night that I left off of my original post, including Eric Krauss, Eric Gates, Troy Powers, Brandon Williams, and Paul (not Shaun) Beasley. To think any of this year's team could muscle with those linemen from the past is just unrealistic. And obviously you know nothing about Beaver football when you said this year's D was better than '99 b/c of how many points were given up in the state title game, b/c in that game, Beaver was missing two of its best players in J.J. Patton and Mike Williams, both of whom were offensive starters as well. As to your post about Rusty being a better QB than Jarrod, I could understand your reasoning (if you had any) but if you watched both of those players play, Sudduth didn't just "hand the ball off to Donald and Tremayne," he also threw it to them along with J.J. and Jason Thompson (who WERE more athletic than either Repass or Davis this year) and played under the offense of legendary coach Chmara.. not the genius Playstation offense of little Freddie. Thats no knock on Rusty b/c he is a great player, but fundamentally he was no better than Jarrod and especially not near the level of Brandon Sarver from '97. Oh yeah and '96 was a one-man show?! Shows how much else you know about Blfd football. You're telling me a backfield of Lenny Johnson, Yubrenal, and Charlie Tynes was a one-man show? Along with Glen Keene and Brandon Sarver at QB? Give me a break. This year's team was great, but like I said in my original post, get off the bandwagon buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverball 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Yep Sources and Beaver90 I will stick to my guns. This years defense is the best I have ever seen in the 30 years of watching BHS football and I think they would have given ANY offense fits. ( I'm not a new fan beaver90 so cut out the bandwagon crap). As far as Blfd missing key players from the 99 team due to injuries against Wyoming East. I remember both players and they were very good, but let's face it Wyoming East was just better that year. Actually that year the state title game was played in the semi's when Wyoming East played James Monroe. James Monroe was loaded that year and would have also easily beaten Bluefield. I vividy recall this same 99 team giving up 40 some points to Liberty Harrison in the playoffs and they were very succeptable(sp) to the pass. JJ and Jason Thompson were more athletic than Repass and Davis. I strongly disagree with that. Davis is one of the most athletic receivers/returners that has ever put on a Blfd uniform. As for Repass, if you don't believe he is athletic wait until basketball season. As for the one man show in 96 of Isabelle. I apoligize for that i should have been more clearer. What I meant was IMO Isabelle was used to much. Defensees were keying on him and the coaches acted like he was the only decent back they had. Charlie Tynes should have gotten alot more touches that year and if he would have I believe they might have won the title. Which brings me back to my original post once again. Pick the best OVERALL team which includes COACHING, leadership and a will to win. Folks I'm not saying these teams could never beat this years teams. I'm just saying this years team is the best ever if you include what you see on the field and the intangibles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total 12 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 yes, there was reasoning behind my post about Rusty being better then Sudduth... and the reasoning is based on my watching darn near every game that Sudduth played in, and darn near every game that Rusty played in. and this season, Rusty was better overall. he won a championship, and i don't have the exact stats for this season or any of Sudduth's year, but i'd say that Rusty had more completions, yards, and TD's, and less int's. not to mention - IMO, he had more poise and was a better leader and field general... his size and strength commanded it, but his actions earned it. --and since you brought up Sarver, i'll go ahead and say the same goes for him and that I THINK Rusty is better overall then him too.-- as for the WR's that Sudduth had, i don't believe it, but if they were more athletic, we'll never know because they weren't used the way Davis and Repass were. they could have been the most gifted WR's in the state that year, but you'd never know it because the ball was never thrown to 'em. we didn't need to throw the ball to 'em because our running game scored about every other time they got the ball. and yeah, i do remember him throwing TD's to Amaker, but hell - i could have done that... all ya had to do was line up in shotgun and throw it as far as you could and Amaker would run under it and score 'cuz you couldn't out throw him. but this entire discussion is without reason. there is no possible way to determine who the better team was because there is no way to determine it... all you can do is debate and huff and puff and say - i believe this or that team is better and here is why, and no matter what you say, i'm still going to believe my opinion is better. LET'S ALL PUT THIS ASIDE AND ONLY FOCUS ON THE FACTS!!! THE FACT THAT WE ARE STATE CHAMPS ONCE AGAIN... it's all that matters. no need to get into a pissing contest about which is the greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaver90 10 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I agree with you definitely on that last part - we are state champs and thats all that matters - I was simply just starting a discussion, thats all. I'm from Bluefield.. don't think I'm mad b/c we won a state title.. haha. I still disagree with pee wee about the best overall team thing, but of course thats just opinion (even though every one else who has posted agrees with me). And of course its hard to compare teams now to the past b/c of the different styles, different coaching, etc. Its like comparing Steeler teams of this year to the 70's and so on.. everyone is going to think differently. If you supposedly watched every game of Sarver, Sudduth and Coeburn, you would know Sarver's and Sudduth's mechanics were much better. Its like when I hear the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning comparison. Brady has won titles and Manning has not - so therefore Brady is a better QB. You put the Patriot's D with Manning .. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Brady is Brady b/c of his defense. The Colts D this year is dreaful, and he still puts up the numbers he does. But anyway, I will say this year's team had the best overall coaching of any Beaver squad I have ever seen. The coaching staff from last year back until about 2000 was absolutely terrible, especially the offense (aka Sizemore and Boyles). Even as smart as Boyles was, any one who has played under him knows how he is and knows he needs to be on a college campus doing what he wants to do. Its as simple as that. And also, about the '99 team giving up all those points to Liberty-Harrison, how about Nate Sowers doing what he did to Beaver's D this year? They might have only scored 28 points, but he shredded their D, just as Patterson (the QB) did for Liberty-Harrison against Blfd. So the day that a secondary of Mike Davis, David Perdue, and whoever else is better than Donald, Tremayne, and J.J. is a day I guess I'll never see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverball 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 there's a big difference in Nate Sowers shredding the Blfd defense as opposed to Libert Harrison doing it. Nate Sowers is a D1 player and the Libery Harrison was..... well a high school qb. Anyway you are entitled to your opninion and it is obvious neither one of us is going to budge. Like total said this debate doesn't really matter. Alot of teams wish they had great teams to debate over, so I'm finished now meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total 12 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 it's all open for debate and there will never be a real answer, but i'm just going to ask one question relating to the stats. did Sudduth or Sarver have as many yards or td's as Rusty had this year? i don't know exact stats, but i would doubt it since Rusty is the only QB in Bluefield history to pass for over 2000 yards. and again, i don't know exact stats, but did those other WR's have the stats the Davis or Repass had... i doubt it. but the fact is, we will never know. Sudduth and Sarver could have potentially been better QB's, but because of the coaching - they weren't used to their full potential. same goes for the WR's. those WR's could have potentially been better then Davis and Repass, but because of the coaching - they weren't used to their full potential. --EDIT-- wait, wasn't that 2 questions??? hahaha also, you sure know all those names of the past real well... as if you was part of one of those teams - what year did you graduate? maybe you're a little biased. personally, i feel that the team from '92 could compete with any of the teams mentioned in this thread, but i'm biased because i was on that team -- i was number 50, Shane Ellison ...... and you were????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born_a_Beaver 10 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 On the 96 team Shaun Bailey played and Paul Beasley...both did very well and Bailey had his ACL repaired in the 95 season but came back to continue his senior year in 96 but unfortunatly that team did not acheive State Champs...there wasn't any Shaun Beasley....and let us not forget Jeremy Barker who had the heart of the whole team...he was a Beaver through and through...it should also be mentioned that both the 96 and 97 teams did well on both the field and on an academic level...most members of the team were in the National Honor Society...I know who my favorite team of all time is...1997, just because I was a part of it and it was my friends that were playing on the field....anyway I am done rambling but I thought I would just clear up the name confusion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzsawBeaver 12 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 different eras of football. Different strengths with different teams also. In my opinion, the 92 team was likely stronger than any. thing to consider is that they were aaa in '92, although aa size enrollment wise, and aaa was really strong in '92, with capitol, barborsville, and dupont with randy moss, ect. The '92 team would have likely stormed through aa like it's never been done before. '84 likely had 1 of the best combination of fb and rb's ever, with coppalo at fb, and hugh smalls and cortez martin at rb. '97 was simply a complete team, strong, with 1 of the best d's that I recall at bluefield. Tynes was also something else, 1 of bluefield's best rb's in my opinion, among many exceptional 1s. '04, they simply have game overall, as much experience and speed at most every position as you'll see in high school football, very physical, a passing game like no other bluefield team has had, and in my opinion the most deverse o a bluefield team has ever had. 1 thing they all the title teams have had in common, an exceptionally strong d, and special teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver_GATA 10 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I don't like to post(I just like to read), but I can't help myself after the mention of Freddy's "playstation offense". One of his best friends told me during the season that the run game was simply a modernized version of the old beaver offense that has worked for over 40 years now, but that the passing game was a combination of Texas Tech's and Florida's offense on NCAA Football 2004 for Playstation. The young man that told me this is a very close and reliable source, and I would be willing to take his word over anyone else on this board. I'll just make one observation; if Freddy the III had been offensive coordinator the previous 12 years, his dad would have more championship rings than he does fingers! PLEASE feel free to respond with any and all emotions that are evoked while you read this post! BEAVER! BEAVER! BEAVER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield_Rules 46 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 [ QUOTE ] If Freddy the III had been offensive coordinator the previous 12 years, his dad would have more championship rings than he does fingers! [/ QUOTE ] Isn't that the truth...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver_Pride 10 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Reguardless where the play calling came from....."the boy is good" and he brought the title back to the rack for the 1st time since 97' and this is were it deserved to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverHokie 35 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Okay, since we're all doing it, I have a question... One of the things that has ALWAYS bugged me was the inability to get 11 players on the field for special teams (punt, punt return mostly). That was a problem for many years, and thankfully, it didn't seem to be a problem in what little I saw. Who is the special teams coach now? Whatever has been done seems to help, as it's eliminated some really stupid penalties for too many men on the field, and delay of game while they try to figure out who should be out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total 12 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 as for the thing with little Freddy as the OC... a lot of people were really worried about this at the beginning of the season. i can even remember sitting at the Beaver/Graham game with someone that would be a little familiar with offensive minds - Ms. Barnett (coach Barnett's ex wife). she asked if little Freddy was the OC and asked what i thought because it made her nervous and that she'd rather have Pete. i told her to have faith in the boy. i'd rather have Freddy over Pete because Pete would be to conservative and not aggressive enough. Freddy had been in football all his life and it's all that he knows. he loves them Beavers and would watch every second of every game film in history if it helped... i know his personality a little bit and know that he's dedicated. that early in the season, i had no idea as to how he would do, and thought that he'd make some mistakes along the way... maybe even some that would cost a game or two, but that he would get this team vertical and keep defenses on their heels all year long. i was right about keeping defenses on their heels, but wrong about costing them a game or two. if anything, his play calling won 'em a game or two... and a state championship. not bad for a rookie. good job Freddy to quiet those critics!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield_Rules 46 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I think Tony Webster is the special teams coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverHokie 35 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 [ QUOTE ] I think Tony Webster is the special teams coach... [/ QUOTE ] Really? Cool. I went to school with Tony (he's a year younger than me), and his dad used to sit with my dad at games. His dad Anthony was a very nice man. He worked for and with my dad for a long time. I know that getting the special teams part down pat has saved probably 10-15 yards of penalties we always seemed to get every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.01bb665814ffc257795fe158cb2045c7.png.8a531ac878a82772b21014d7a6167582.png){kind=logo}
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.