Despite criticism, under Harris, Tazewell has really developed a culture of hard working kids. I don’t know them personally, but they seem like good kids and community support has grown steadily. Regardless of the outcome on Saturday, they deserve applause.
For a totally out of left field perspective, is it common or effective to recruit a coaching staff and players of fathers and sons?
Hear me out…
1. Coaches aren’t paid enough. Dads coach for free because they love the game and care about their children’s welfare.
2. Our cousins across the county line have multiple dads on staff who recently brought their kids with them. (In basketball, another head coach brings his kids to new school.)
3. While I don’t know any of the coaches personally, Union and Graham for example seem to have a huge staff of coaches who are not teachers and don’t appear to be actively coaching on Fridays and Saturdays.
So, could the solution be as simple as getting a good head coach? Then a knowledgeable OC and DC (bonus points if athlete’s’ father. Fill the rest with rising little league coaches/fathers. The smaller the school, the quicker it works.
(Tongue in cheek/conspiracy theory, but the more I think on it, especially from the money/job perspectives, the more I believe that it could work.)
I probably echo Gridiron 60 when it comes to rooting allegiance, Richlands>Tazewell >Graham>Region D, although we differ in Tazewell County order. I’ll admit besides the occasional underdog story, I find myself rooting for Union afterward simply due admiration and tradition. Besides Graham, and occasionally Ridgeview/Gate City being exceptions, there is definitely some basis to the stereotype of Union and their fans’ belief of their physicality. Over the years, I think that belief gives them the edge over most teams that are even talent wise.
During the Mance years, I spoke with a coach who said the main difference with the kids was that they “expected to win.”
I think that applies to Union in most games throughout the years. I buy into the belief that Union is more physical than most teams based upon my observation over time.
I can see the offensive linemen enjoying running the T. I enjoy seeing it myself. I think in that case, the best athletes are running backs instead of WR. They are sharing carries the same way as the WRs share the hall with the QB spreading it around. I think this is somewhere between the pass happy spread offense and a smash mouth I/Power I where the happiest are the OL and the TB getting continuous carries.
Is there some merit concerning affordability about scholarships being prioritized for prospects from out of the area from disadvantaged backgrounds? I’m basing this on a conversation a few years ago with a friend whose son was going through the recruiting process.
For example, whether local politics or simply talent, my observation locally is that the better players often are from middle or sometimes upper class backgrounds. I’m certain the development is influenced by stability at home and the resources to attend various camps and practices outside what is provided through the schools. The perception leads to the conclusion that that prospect if they are serious about playing can afford to pay for all or some of their education. Meanwhile, the scholarship goes to attract prospects mentioned earlier. Those prospects likely don’t have a backup plan to complete their education.
This doesn’t include clear Division 1 outliers that are clearly gifted with extraordinary size and/or speed.
In my opinion, Creasy is one of the most talented quarterbacks that I have seen in recent years. I won’t/can’t compare him to his peers mentioned, but we are blessed with several talented quarterbacks. Tazewell is also blessed with some of the best skilled position players around.
That said, the criticism and outcome of the game will likely come down the line of scrimmage. As some of said, the poor performances against the better teams are usually the result of a merciless pass rush.
Good luck to Tazewell! However, I go with Union, not because of the skill position players and scheme, but because the results I have seen between the offensive and defensive lines.
I think you mentioned D. Palmer in another thread. I truly feel like he’s one of those few to whom you’re referring . I’m sure there are others sprinkled throughout SWVA & even at Graham just like him such as Rex Bradshaw. To me they must truly just love football & coaching. Even when Tony Palmer started his kids were little. Granted they’re playing age now but weren’t then. I think these guys just love it & like competitive aspect of it too.
Disclaimer: I’m not a coach nor a parent.
Confirmed, he is one of those examples, that I honestly believe loves it and enjoys the game and working with those students. Without speaking for them and their motives, he and others made a positive impact on my life and I appreciate it, whether by design or a byproduct. I was obviously not a part of a state title team (district, yes), but the pressure couldn’t have been as much to win at time as lately and now.
I have no sons, and my daughters are grown, so it definitely wouldn't be daddy ball. haha
I remember my little league coaches very well to this day. Two of them did have kids on the team, but neither showed favoritism and both coached long before and well after their sons were in the league. I thought they were all great examples of coaches, especially at that level. Kind, mentoring, tough but not harsh. They taught great fundamentals and challenged us to do better. I've always felt the need to repay that. I think I'll be able to in a few more years as things slow down....I hope!
Good luck to you. My experience in growing up was similar to yours in both little league and school, but 1/2 or so of mine did not have kids on the team.
Disclaimer: I'm not a coach, but if life allows me more time in the future, I'd love to coach little league. Working on the fundamentals, knowing that it will pay off when they reach varsity.
I think the #1 reason that coaches do what they do and put up with what they do, is the love of the sport and wanting to stay connected in some way. The #2 reason would have to be love of their community.
Some do it for ego I'm sure. Those are the ones that apply for and take any job they can to get started. Try to prove themselves enough for the next "bigger" job until they're where they want to be. Then, they try to win as much as possible to get noticed so they can keep climbing the ladder. I think Thad Wells fits nicely into this category. I'm not saying anything is necessarily wrong with that, but it's probably more ambition than love of the community.
In most people, there's an innate desire for a challenge. What, specifically, that challenge is varies from person to person. Maybe it's state titles, maybe it's building a program or mentoring young men to prepare them to be responsible adults. Whatever that challenge is keeps them going.
Take Keith Warner at TS for example. What are the odds that he wins a state championship with such a low enrollment? He's done wonders there, and without a doubt knows the odds are stacked against him each and every year. I know he loves his community and those kids. He took on the task of head coach because he hated to see the program in the state it was in. Where does he go from here? He could go 6-4 or 7-3 every year, never win a playoff game, district/regional title and people would still say that he's doing a great job with the numbers he has. Will that be his career or will he go to a bigger school? Time will tell.
One thing is for certain. No coach in this area does it for the money.
Thank you for the response. Warner at Twin Springs is the prototype of the one example of my question.
Your disclaimer (and thank you) reminds me of another observation or reason and you may be one of the exceptions, but many coaches often are coaching their children which is or can be a concurrent goal, but sometimes is at the expense of the team (“daddy ball”). This isn’t a bad thing when the whole is made better due to the presence of a truly benevolent coach/dad. It’s when the line is blurred when it possibly reflects nepotism rather than talent. My perception is very few are doing it solely to teach or give back or for the love of the game.
(This post isn’t to throw rocks. I have both coached little league to give back and also as a way to do so while spending time with a child. I am particularly interested in the non-parent perspectives.)
In my opinion, your take is spot on. I should have added in my post the importance of Leadership knowing what you don't know, or at least knowing how one may improve. Meaning...if you aren't an offensive guru, you have the leadership qualities to get an offensive guy, or a defensive guy, etc. Tony was smart to get a guy like D. Palmer.
I think....again, just my opinion, that if you are a Head Coach and you have great leadership qualities, but if you might not be the "advanced expert" on scheming/x's and o's, this can be overcome by using those leadership qualities to get great assistants/coordinators around you. That's a huge part of coaching. We see some in college how a great Head Coach can lose a coordinator and things turn quickly or vice versa. I hate to give credit to an evil person like Sandusky, and no question, Paterno was sharp at Penn State, but a gigantic portion of all of those great Penn State teams was Sandusky's defense. Same thing applies to Bud Foster at Virginia Tech.
All the best for the Blues. I hope they turn it around. Great tradition and pride in Richlands, VA, and I think SWVA is better if Richlands is............the normal Richlands we are so use to seeing.
Thanks for the clarification and the well wishes. Your post inspired another thread. I’m one of the few who are old enough to remember those darker times prior to 1992, so I hope normal is at least 1992 forward or 2004-2016. The old standard prior to Vaught and Mance was certainly nothing to brag about even though the community has always seemed passionate about football.
Over my lifetime, my observation is that coaching careers are generally shorter. Some areas are more successful in regards to wins and losses than others for a variety of reasons. Those expectations likely increase the amount of stress leading to those shorter careers. I know the values are not mutually exclusive, (striving to win helps instill many virtues), but I’m curious how much the experience and reasons vary from community to community. For example, how different is the prevailing reason for coaches in powerhouses versus the average community with little hopes for state titles? Why do you do it?
If any posters are current or former coaches, thank you for your service to your communities regardless of the answers.
(This may be a good question for ATW, as the hosts all coached at smaller schools.)
Whoever is selected, is likely to have a heavy lift initially. That said, whether you support an outside hire or inside, the biggest factor in selection is cost. Salary or stipend is only a small part of the equation. The biggest advantage of an insider versus an outsider is the personal cost involved, such as housing, commute, time, and possibly allegiance. An outsider must consider all these things, especially if they have a family. I don’t know anything about the applicant pool, but I’m excited to see about the future.
I agree with you SXSW 100%. Only thing is, there is a gamble on that person knowing football. I'm not saying Breeding doesn't (I have no idea). The point I'm making is...the new coach can have incredible enthusiasm, excellent leadership, discipline, and motivational skills that makes the kids want to run through a wall and even build community support, but............there is still the x's and o's part, and as I have wrote before on here or what I refer to as...."the brains." Somebody on staff has to do the scheming, the chess playing on the field, and without that, you can have the best general, best motivator, best disciplinary guy, best "buy in" guy in the business, and they will still come up short.
With Houseright, Gate City struck gold. You have all the leadership parts combined with the "knowing football part." Breeding may be both and be super. I just don't know enough about him. A guy like Dixon at Galax, Palmer at Graham, Turner at Union, those guys have both. The opposite is true in some situations where you have a Head Coach that is brilliant in scheming, x's and o's knowledge, but may be a poor leader, not much motivation or enthusiasm and they will struggle also because you got to have both.
The above are my opinions only.
I may have the wrong impression, and I acknowledge the growth into possibly having both now. However, I believe when Palmer was hired, he embodied the leadership and community support part. I credit the scheming part initially to having great assistants. My opinion was that Mance was able to out coach Graham initially at a time when Graham was getting arguably better athletes. Let’s face it, even before the leverage of the transfer portal, there have been more college caliber athletes coming from the greater Bluefield area. Not only has the talent disparity widened, it is no coincidence that D. Palmer and other coaches have helped immensely on scheme and preparation. I don’t have knowledge specifically of the other coaching staff or longevity, but I know likely that Isabelle and Horton (not meaning others don’t), know football and strength and conditioning. Tony Palmer hasn’t had to be every where and everything. He has wisely delegated and improved by learning from the experience of his staff. Now success continues to breed success as athletes wanting to win continue to deepen the talent pool.
Sounds like it was a good game. Gotta give Coach Warner and his staff credit. They've done an excellent job since he took over. They are listed with 135 students on the VHSL Alignment chart or 307 out of 315 schools enrollment wise.
It’s amazing how well the Titans have done since Warner’s arrival. That and Hurley with Tester at the helm a few years ago, are some of the best examples of doing a lot with few resources.
I knew someone could answer this question for certain and end any speculation! It’s hard to even think about going back to a place when one was treated the way he was after all those years he dedicated to Blue Tornado athletics. I’m glad he’ll be staying put! Best wishes to whomever takes over! I hope they can build the program back up! It benefits all the teams in our area when everyone is better!
One of the biggest tragedies in Richlands Athletics history. The Mance staff consisting of Palmer, Davisx3, Daugherty, Tarter, Strong, Wess, etc. was one of the best around.
Collier at Rye Cove has done a great job, but not knowing him, I assumed geography would be an issue. I wasn’t aware of Warner’s connection, but know Nickelsville is closer than Duffield. Both of their results cannot be overlooked.
41 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:
Keith Warner has done a fantastic job at TS and the kids love him, but he's pretty entrenched in Scott Co.
It would definitely be worth reaching out to him though.
Union was very blessed to have Travis Turner ready to step up during consolidation to steer the ship that is usually stacked with talent and tradition.
I think a lot of the places around here should go in house and do 8 man football. I know RV could have had 3 or 4 teams of around 15 kids each on the teams. Play 4 to 6 games and teach the basics.
This is a very interesting take. My biggest concern with talent development trends in most sports is the way to early separation of the haves and have nots. Football especially is dependent upon physicality and way too many potential players are prevented from learning and developing due to injury, burnout, or negative experiences due to bad coaching or late maturity. Smaller teams with seemingly more equitable talent breeds more playing time and fewer blowouts.
On a serious note, since Honaker has had some success with Richlands guys coming over, Richlands should maybe considering "stealing back." The Head Coach at Honaker is a good one. They shouldn't have let him get away at Fort Chiswell, and then Ridgeview really kicked themselves. Dude can coach. If you watch Honaker, they are out scheming people. I don't mean to be offensive and I'm not knocking Honaker's talent either because they have good talent, but he's also outscheming opponents in addition to the talent.
This, if doable, is very logical. Occasionally, especially with transfers, Honaker has more absolute talent than Richlands, but usually simply because of numbers, Richlands usually has more talent. Honaker has the advantage of talent relative to enrollment. One or two athletic kids means a world of difference in Class 1, compared to competition. They are clearly the most talented 1D team. When compared to Union, Graham, and Radford, I believe it’s a sizable gap. The Tigers are currently the big fish in the small pond.
From the latter category, how about Rhodes (reportedly turned down before), Warner (Twin Springs), Tommy Crigger (Twin Valley)? Admittedly, I’m not terribly familiar with local ties other than Crigger, but I feel each would have a larger talent pool at their disposal. As far as records, I’m particularly impressed by Twin Springs in recent years.
I'll open up Pandora's Box here: What about Aaron Lowe? Good guy, good proven coach, great motivator with the players, and offensive minded, just ask Honaker. I know somone will comment on this post for sure.
My question, besides the obvious reason of wanting a challenge (a big one) and the opportunity, would he or the other names mentioned be interested? I’m not against this name, Shane Wicks (as mentioned on After the Whistle), Dennis Palmer, or Greg Mance (a stretch). All of these guys are certainly in better situations currently and some would be difficult healing old wounds or dealing with those who had crossed them, right or wrong. For the life of me, I can’t think of any qualified candidate that would have such a love for Richlands that would take on such a heavy lift. I do think it is going to take 2-3 years, so we as a fan base must be patient. Another thought is who from a smaller school would be bettering themselves?
I, for one, am not a Tazewell hater. As a matter of fact, I root for them when not playing Richlands. Tonight’s the same; however, otherwise, I am happy for Dennis Palmer’s success. That said, as hopeful as some are (me included), I can’t help but doubt Tazewell. I’ve seen it too many times, and human nature causes me to sometimes wrongly doubt, the same way I have been overly optimistic about the Blues. The reasonable part of me thinks the following: 1. Tazewell wins by “out-athleting” most on their schedule. 2. Graham is one of the few teams that Tazewell does not have an edge in this category.
If Graham doesn’t beat themselves by penalties and turnovers, I’m taking the G-men by 10-14.
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Union Vs Tazewell
in SWVA Football
Posted
Despite criticism, under Harris, Tazewell has really developed a culture of hard working kids. I don’t know them personally, but they seem like good kids and community support has grown steadily. Regardless of the outcome on Saturday, they deserve applause.