The Obama Deception

[hokie07 11]

I am just curious what some of you would have done with the economy the way it is. What should Obama have done instead of the stimulus package and so forth. I'm not stirring a pot or anything, just asking your opinion.

 

Our economy is in very bad shape and something has to be done. I just think that Obama has gone head over heels on spending our money in this stimulus. When all the spending has ended, we will only be a few months down the road. We will have accrued almost a trillion dollars in debt to the rest of the world. I don't think we have that much money just laying around. Every dollar in the stimulus package will be borrowed. Every year the interest on that debt will accumulate, dragging down the economy and burdening our children, all for a small, temporary effect. If we had all the money in the world, I'm sure this whole thing would be a pretty cool "test", but we don't. There are billions of wasted dollars in this bill that I just do not believe will have any positive effects in stimulating the economy.

 

I'll be honest with you in saying that I don't know exactly what I would do to stimulate our economy, but I do know that I wouldn't feed money into some of the places it is currently going. I don't think we will be able to create jobs unless our businesses have the money and confidence to employ people. Now whether that is spending or tax breaks, I'm not sure. Once it is studied and determined, the right amount of tax cuts would increase family disposable personal income and increase jobs across the country. Tax reductions would allow families to plan and grow in the near future, since they would not have to worry about tax increases. In addition, people would be more secure in their jobs or business, since taxes on business establishments would also be reduced, leaving business owners with more money for hiring new employees and other operational expenses.

 

That is just my opinion and something I would consider doing, but the real answer to stimulating the economy lies within the people. If, for whatever reason, people do not put into the economy and help it expand then there is no way it will grow. Consumer confidence is down across the nation and investment and consumption, two of the most important components, are down also. If we aren't trying to expand the economy then we are digging ourselves deeper everyday.

[hokie07 11]

But isn't voting for Obama for wanting "to be a part of and witness history", aren't you voting for Obama indirectly based on the color of his skin? Race should have exactly 0.00% to do with it, indirect or not.

 

Excellent point. You beat me to it!

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

It has nothing to do with Islam because Barrack isn't Muslim.

 

No, but his father and his heritage is. And thats good enough for Farrakhan.

[fieldgeneral 10]

But isn't voting for Obama for wanting "to be a part of and witness history", aren't you voting for Obama indirectly based on the color of his skin? Race should have exactly 0.00% to do with it, indirect or not.

 

If you look back at my posts, I've said it's ignorant to do so. I agree with you 100%.

[fieldgeneral 10]

No, but his father and his heritage is. And thats good enough for Farrakhan.

 

 

Ok and his father and heritage were not born in the United States. Our country is a melting pot of background and religions. We could go back and research all of our Presidents and their parents history if we needed to and I'm sure we'd find many religions. The muslim culture isn't bad, it's those darn extremist that can make any religion look sketchy.

 

That may be good enough for Farrakhan, but why are we even caring how he feels about it. I understand people may fear him and his beliefs , but our president doesn't share those.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Ok and his father and heritage were not born in the United States. Our country is a melting pot of background and religions. We could go back and research all of our Presidents and their parents history if we needed to and I'm sure we'd find many religions. The muslim culture isn't bad, it's those darn extremist that can make any religion look sketchy.

 

That may be good enough for Farrakhan, but why are we even caring how he feels about it. I understand people may fear him and his beliefs , but our president doesn't share those.

 

I agree with most of what you said. But I will remind you, you said no one thinks he is a savior/messiah. A very powerful man did, regardless of race or whatever.

 

Honestly, I know he doesnt think he is the messiah, nor does he practice the muslim belief. But that doesnt stop him from having others think him as that, and I would guess the documentary would show those people.

[fieldgeneral 10]

Our economy is in very bad shape and something has to be done. I just think that Obama has gone head over heels on spending our money in this stimulus. When all the spending has ended, we will only be a few months down the road. We will have accrued almost a trillion dollars in debt to the rest of the world. I don't think we have that much money just laying around. Every dollar in the stimulus package will be borrowed. Every year the interest on that debt will accumulate, dragging down the economy and burdening our children, all for a small, temporary effect. If we had all the money in the world, I'm sure this whole thing would be a pretty cool "test", but we don't. There are billions of wasted dollars in this bill that I just do not believe will have any positive effects in stimulating the economy.

 

I'll be honest with you in saying that I don't know exactly what I would do to stimulate our economy, but I do know that I wouldn't feed money into some of the places it is currently going. I don't think we will be able to create jobs unless our businesses have the money and confidence to employ people. Now whether that is spending or tax breaks, I'm not sure. Once it is studied and determined, the right amount of tax cuts would increase family disposable personal income and increase jobs across the country. Tax reductions would allow families to plan and grow in the near future, since they would not have to worry about tax increases. In addition, people would be more secure in their jobs or business, since taxes on business establishments would also be reduced, leaving business owners with more money for hiring new employees and other operational expenses.

 

That is just my opinion and something I would consider doing, but the real answer to stimulating the economy lies within the people. If, for whatever reason, people do not put into the economy and help it expand then there is no way it will grow. Consumer confidence is down across the nation and investment and consumption, two of the most important components, are down also. If we aren't trying to expand the economy then we are digging ourselves deeper everyday.

 

I agree for the most part. Good post.

 

I agree that something has to be done. The stimulus will put extra money in our pockets to spend. Most people will spend it. Some will save in fear of the economy, but think of all the people that the money is going to. As for as the middle class , those people need the money for student loans, everyday grocery shopping, tuition and fees, anything. I just feel that it will help the economy but it may not do enough. I don't know what else could have been done either, but a bold attempt has been made and we must hope for the best and do our part. Jobs have to be created and people have to have money to spend on those extra things. That is the purpose of the stimulus, but we will see if does those things.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

but isn't voting for obama for wanting "to be a part of and witness history", aren't you voting for obama indirectly based on the color of his skin? Race should have exactly 0.00% to do with it, indirect or not.

 

potd.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

I agree for the most part. Good post.

 

I agree that something has to be done. The stimulus will put extra money in our pockets to spend. Most people will spend it. Some will save in fear of the economy, but think of all the people that the money is going to. As for as the middle class , those people need the money for student loans, everyday grocery shopping, tuition and fees, anything. I just feel that it will help the economy but it may not do enough. I don't know what else could have been done either, but a bold attempt has been made and we must hope for the best and do our part. Jobs have to be created and people have to have money to spend on those extra things. That is the purpose of the stimulus, but we will see if does those things.

 

You do know that we will not be recieving checks and we will recieve 8-13 dollars a week right? And we will find that money in tax cuts. Oh what will I ever do with that.

[fieldgeneral 10]

I agree with most of what you said. But I will remind you, you said no one thinks he is a savior/messiah. A very powerful man did, regardless of race or whatever.

 

Honestly, I know he doesnt think he is the messiah, nor does he practice the muslim belief. But that doesnt stop him from having others think him as that, and I would guess the documentary would show those people.

 

I don't think that I said, "noone thinks he is the savior / messiah." I've heard that from some people around here and online.

 

I'm sure the "documentary" will preach it and say that he is and this is why........

[fieldgeneral 10]

You do know that we will not be recieving checks and we will recieve 8-13 dollars a week right? And we will find that money in tax cuts. Oh what will I ever do with that.

 

oh yes, but it's not a large enough amount to go put it in the bank, and will be spent. You've got millions of people that fit into that category to recieve it, and it will be spent. $50 bucks a month extra will be used somewhere and may seem insignificant, but when multiplied by millions, who knows?

[Deleted Account 5,203]

If you look back at my posts, I've said it's ignorant to do so. I agree with you 100%.

 

Sorry, misread your post. I do apologize for that.

I'm running on 4 hours of sleep, it happens sometimes. :(

[bucfan64 309]

America is a MELTING POT not a MOSAIC and I think that is where liberals and conservatives have a fundamental difference.

 

REgarding the economy, I would not have introduced a stimulus package unless it included 75% or more in tax cuts. I would be very clear as to whom the tax cuts would go to, middle class, small business, with a majority going to wage earning Americans.

 

I would not have GONE DEEPER IN DEBT. My study of economics teaches me that sometimes when the free market fails, you permit it to fail. Eventually someone will come along and start over where the last business failed. An economic system based on principals of doing what is right and accepting liability for errors and mistakes works much better than a system that rewards you for greed, failings and improper management.

 

My dad taught it best, spare the rod, spoil the child.

 

Don't reward the kid for being bad and you sure as heck don't reward the kid for being good. After all you should do what is right and nobody should reward you for doing what you ought to do.

 

Obama shouldn't care anyhow, if he left things along, times would be tough, but he could always blame it on Bush, (although, I entirely disagee that this economic problem is totally the fault of the Bush Admin.) if he messes with it, he now has nobody to blame but himself for choosing the wrong route.

 

Of course the reason that Obama did not leave things along and let the economy fix itself, is because it was a wonderful opportunity to promote his SOCIALIST AGENDA. Just like Geithner said "you can't let a good crisis go to waste."

Edited February 25, 2009 by bucfan64

[fieldgeneral 10]

Sorry, misread your post. I do apologize for that.

I'm running on 4 hours of sleep, it happens sometimes. :(

 

LOL , it's cool. 4 hours sucks, working late?

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

While I will agree with you that people will spend it, not save it for the most part, it will not even put a dent in the economy. The thing I hate about all this spending is none of it is bipartisan, Obama promised us that and he isnt delivering. We are wasting money on pork while the average american may be suffering. Then Obama gets up there and claims, "there is no pork in this bill", which is lying to our faces.

 

For all those who thought Obama would be a new type of politician, they were wrong. I will say America needs change RIGHT NOW. But both sides of congress are too busy to worry about us. We have the power to fix it, but we don't. I believe before the election I said vote every incumbent congressman out of office, and I did. Unfortunately the congress did not. Email your senators and tell them to look out for you, not them and their extreme agenda and pork. Any pork is bad pork guys. I recieve letters from RCB all the time in the mail, in responses to what I say. Does he read them? No. But one day he will, and he ought to listen. Our country is in turmoil, and quite frankly, for the first time in my life, I do not think the goverment is working to help me, instead they are helping themselves to my tax money.

 

This letter from Glenn Beck, shows my feelings exactly.

 

I made a promise to you and to myself that I would never share something with you that I didn’t believe because your trust and my reputation are too important. My job is to bring you the news and I work hard at finding those stories that aren’t found on the front pages or to present stories from a different perspective or explain them as a series of connected events rather than isolated occurrences.

 

For several years I have been telling you that I was connecting a series of seemingly unrelated events that were forming a ‘perfect storm’. I told you that America was headed for perilous economic times which would challenge our fortitude, our resiliency and determination. I told you that we were headed for hardships most of us hadn’t experienced in our lifetimes but that we could make it through and although we would be challenged we would not be broken by the storm. Our country, our parents and grandparents faced difficult times and have always emerged stronger. I believe that if we make the right choices America can be better, stronger and more strongly rooted in our core principles and values.

 

The ‘perfect storm’ message has been tough for me to bring to you. It takes a toll on me and I know it takes a toll on you. Several of my closest friends and colleagues told me that if I didn’t shut-up with all the ‘gloom and doom’ talk my ratings and advertising would suffer—they were right—but I owed it to you to keep bringing you the message, and I did. When I talk about the ‘perfect storm’ and disenfranchisement I do it from a growing sense of concern that our politicians and elected leaders are increasingly out-of-step with everyday Americans. My plea to the politicians is for them to become re-engaged, to return to our core and shared principles and values and to stop the politics of left and right. It’s not designed to stir-up angst or anger but to focus attention on real and growing problems. To those feeling isolated my message is that you are not alone and that we surround them.

 

This ‘perfect storm’ hasn’t run its course. The government’s determination to fight free-market forces guarantees higher unemployment, more business failures and continued economic contraction. I don’t want that to happen but that’s how I see it. Unfortunately, more good people who have paid their taxes and played by the rules increasingly feel isolated and disenfranchised from their government as they perceive that those who broke the rules get the bailouts while they get stuck with the tab. Civil unrest and demonstrations are already taking place in Iceland, Ireland, Spain and Greece. Police experts are predicting a summer of ‘discontent’ with riots in England and tensions boiling over in more European countries.

 

I hope and pray that we don’t see that happen there and work tirelessly to prevent it from happening here. I have repeatedly said that, as Americans we need to work within the constitutional framework by seeking out and voting individuals of honor and integrity into office while voting those without a shred of common decency out. Anyone who thinks that I am calling for, wishing for, or hoping for anything more is not listening to the message but is more interested in attacking the messenger.

 

We ARE a great country. Our best days are ahead of—not behind us. We need to rediscover those principles and values that have always grounded us to goodness and God—because it is there where we will remember that our true strength and power isn’t on Wall Street or the marble halls of Congress but in the hearts of WE THE PEOPLE.

Edited February 25, 2009 by BEAVERTAIL

[fieldgeneral 10]

America is a MELTING POT not a MOSAIC and I think that is where liberals and conservatives have a fundamental difference.

 

REgarding the economy, I would not have introduced a stimulus package unless it included 75% or more in tax cuts. I would be very clear as to whom the tax cuts would go to, middle class, small business, with a majority going to wage earning Americans.

 

I would not have GONE DEEPER IN DEBT. My study of economics teaches me that sometimes when the free market fails, you permit it to fail. Eventually someone will come along and start over where the last business failed. An economic system based on principals of doing what is right and accepting liability for errors and mistakes works much better than a system that rewards you for greed, failings and improper management.

 

My dad taught it best, spare the rod, spoil the child.

 

Don't reward the kid for being bad and you sure as heck don't reward the kid for being good. After all you should do what is right and nobody should reward you for doing what you ought to do.

 

Obama shouldn't care anyhow, if he left things along, times would be tough, but he could always blame it on Bush, (although, I entirely disagee that this economic problem is totally the fault of the Bush Admin.) if he messes with it, he now has nobody to blame but himself for choosing the wrong route.

 

Of course the reason that Obama did not leave things along and let the economy fix itself, is because it was a wonderful opportunity to promote his SOCIALIST AGENDA. Just like Geithner said "you can't let a good crisis go to waste."

 

So his reasoning for trying to help the country or do what is best for the country in his mind was a waste of time? I don't agree that he should have came in and been passive. Just to sit in office for four years would have been pointless. He is trying, although what he is trying is what is in question with some of you and that is fine. What if the stimulus and other ideas that come from this administration do help the economy and we begin to prosper? Are we going to say that he should have sat idle and not have tried.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

My study of economics teaches me that sometimes when the free market fails, you permit it to fail. Eventually someone will come along and start over where the last business failed. An economic system based on principals of doing what is right and accepting liability for errors and mistakes works much better than a system that rewards you for greed, failings and improper management.

 

You know, this sounds like a plan I would have as well.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

What if the stimulus and other ideas that come from this administration do help the economy and we begin to prosper? Are we going to say that he should have sat idle and not have tried.

 

If the stimulus works, it is only delaying the inevitable, that corrupt businesses will fail. We are just putting ourselves in front of the future generations in my opinion.

[fieldgeneral 10]

While I will agree with you that people will spend it, not save it for the most part, it will not even put a dent in the economy. The thing I hate about all this spending is none of it is bipartisan, Obama promised us that and he isnt delivering. We are wasting money on pork while the average american may be suffering. Then Obama gets up there and claims, "there is no pork in this bill", which is lying to our faces.

 

For all those who thought Obama would be a new type of politician, they were wrong. I will say America needs change RIGHT NOW. But both sides of congress are too busy to worry about us. We have the power to fix it, but we don't. I believe before the election I said vote every incumbent congressman out of office, and I did. Unfortunately the congress did not. Email your senators and tell them to look out for you, not them and their extreme agenda and pork. Any pork is bad pork guys. I recieve letters from RCB all the time in the mail, in responses to what I say. Does he read them? No. But one day he will, and he ought to listen. Our country is in turmoil, and quite frankly, for the first time in my life, I do not think the goverment is working to help me, instead they are helping themselves to my tax money.

 

This letter from Glenn Beck, shows my feelings exactly.

 

What part do you consider "pork?" Where do you not the like the stimulus money going? I'm just curious what part it is that you wished was not there.

 

I agree that our government has been too preocuupied with how many republicans and how many democrats and who is in charge. Unfortunately people have ideas and opinions that differ and what some feel is helping our country other don't feel the same. I don't know how you find a politician that is for the right things these days, but I agree that we all need to get back to the foundations of our country.

 

 

I agree with this 100%, but these problems have existed for quite some time not just since January 20, 2009.

 

We ARE a great country. Our best days are ahead of—not behind us. We need to rediscover those principles and values that have always grounded us to goodness and God—because it is there where we will remember that our true strength and power isn’t on Wall Street or the marble halls of Congress but in the hearts of WE THE PEOPLE.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

What part do you consider "pork?" Where do you not the like the stimulus money going? I'm just curious what part it is that you wished was not there.

 

I agree that our government has been too preocuupied with how many republicans and how many democrats and who is in charge. Unfortunately people have ideas and opinions that differ and what some feel is helping our country other don't feel the same. I don't know how you find a politician that is for the right things these days, but I agree that we all need to get back to the foundations of our country.

 

 

I agree with this 100%, but these problems have existed for quite some time not just since January 20, 2009.

 

We ARE a great country. Our best days are ahead of—not behind us. We need to rediscover those principles and values that have always grounded us to goodness and God—because it is there where we will remember that our true strength and power isn’t on Wall Street or the marble halls of Congress but in the hearts of WE THE PEOPLE.

 

As for the above bolded section, note where in the first post that I had been saying this since before the election.

 

Where was the pork?

 

$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

 

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

 

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

 

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

 

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

 

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

 

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

 

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

 

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

 

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

 

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

 

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

 

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

 

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

 

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

 

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

 

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

 

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

 

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

 

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

 

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

 

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

 

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

 

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

 

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

 

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

 

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

 

• $850 million for Amtrak.

 

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

 

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

 

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

 

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations

 

Now thats just the list the GOP comprised, and I highlighted some of the ones I find really bad. Some of these don't seem so bad, but such as making green facilities, some of those facilities were considered to be golf clubhouses. Amtrak is a federal railroad that hasnt had a profit in years, but we are plugging millions of dollars into it. Some things look ok, but if we delve into the situation, we find that its hard to see the good in giving them money. I dont have time to go into every one. Ask, and ill shed some light to the best of my knowledge.

 

Another thing that gets me, and this covers where do I not want the money to go question, is that we plugged almost 100 billion more into welfare and such. I am adamantly against this. Create jobs for people to work, and that was Obama's and his wife's stance, instead of giving them more money, or allowing more people to be eligble for welfare.

Edited February 25, 2009 by BEAVERTAIL

[fieldgeneral 10]

As for the above bolded section, note where in the first post that I had been saying this since before the election.

 

Where was the pork?

 

$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

 

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

 

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

 

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

 

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

 

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

 

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

 

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

 

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

 

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

 

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

 

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

 

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

 

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

 

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

 

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

 

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

 

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

 

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

 

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

 

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

 

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

 

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

 

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

 

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

 

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

 

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

 

• $850 million for Amtrak.

 

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

 

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

 

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

 

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations

 

Now thats just the list the GOP comprised, and I highlighted some of the ones I find really bad. Some of these don't seem so bad, but such as making green facilities, some of those facilities were considered to be golf clubhouses. Amtrak is a federal railroad that hasnt had a profit in years, but we are plugging millions of dollars into it. Some things look ok, but if we delve into the situation, we find that its hard to see the good in giving them money. I dont have time to go into every one. Ask, and ill shed some light to the best of my knowledge.

 

Another thing that gets me, and this covers where do I not want the money to go question, is that we plugged almost 100 billion more into welfare and such. I am adamantly against this. Create jobs for people to work, and that was Obama's and his wife's stance, instead of giving them more money, or allowing more people to be eligble for welfare.

 

Does the money allocated for the majority of these things you listed not create more jobs? It seems that businesses would have to be contracted to do most of these things which will make more jobs in the process. Some are questionable, but most seem legit.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Does the money allocated for the majority of these things you listed not create more jobs? It seems that businesses would have to be contracted to do most of these things which will make more jobs in the process. Some are questionable, but most seem legit.

 

Not if they dont need help. And like I said earlier, its a temporary fix. Construction jobs only last until the job is done. And then we are back in the same situation.

[hokie07 11]

not if they dont need help. And like i said earlier, its a temporary fix. Construction jobs only last until the job is done. And then we are back in the same situation.

 

potd.

[Guest BB_TWEEDER]

This is a lil late, but I just started readin this thread and I support Obama and voted for him and Micheal Moore's film Sicko.. I havent watched any others, but Do Believe what he documents in Sicko is true and how f**ked up Bush's administration was to the American ppl. Now that being said im not trying to start an argument of piss anyone off, I am just stateing where I stand on this Issue.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

"I don't hold any of Moore's movies to be the whole truth as I have said. Someone else brought up his films. I simply said Jone's is crazy as owl poop. He seems to be preying on the the religion of many and those "sheep" as some have mentioned in earlier posts and their very outlandish fears. He is out to make money and the more outlandish and controversial, the better."

 

 

what an underhanded jab, can you still not answer a simple question about whether or not america is heading down the socialist route? Besides consider this, when I write that this adminastration intentionally seeks to harm the country, that doesn't suggest this they actually prefer to see america fail, it's that their version of what america should be isn't at all what america was intended to be or has been, their version of what america should be is more what like some socialist european countries are.

The free, armed, capitalist america, where people do for themselves, without government front and center in their lives is what they intend to see fail.

There's nothing extreme or either outlandish in realizing that this administration has a much different version of america in mind, their concept from the start has been nothing but "change", and considering the route they're going there's nothing unrealistic about realizing what's going on, they are "changing" america..