Virginia v. Duke for the ACC Title...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

In BASEBALL?! Believe it!

And Virginia only had to beat Clemson and UNC to get there.

I repeat, UVA beat UNC to get there. When it matters, right, boys? And it wasn't close...

http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=88827&SPID=10613&DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=3742195

[hokie07 11]

In BASEBALL?! Believe it!

And Virginia only had to beat Clemson and UNC to get there.

I repeat, UVA beat UNC to get there. When it matters, right, boys? And it wasn't close...

http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=88827&SPID=10613&DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=3742195

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but judging from the way I read the article, UVA is only in the semifinals.

 

From the link:

Virginia, the tournament’s sixth seed, is 2-0 in Division B and can clinch a spot in the ACC Championship game with a win Saturday against No. 7-seed Duke. No. 1-seed Florida State already has clinched a championship-game berth out of the other division. North Carolina, seeded second, drops to 1-1 in the tournament.

 

Carolina will still receive an at-large bid to NCAA Regionals and should still be considered a threat for a national title. But an impressive outing from the Cavs, nonetheless...

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

They are in the finals now.

 

And, UNC never plays well in the ACC tourny.

 

UNC will be in Omaha. UVA wont. I WILL NOT change my prediction.

[dawgs86 10]

Wasn't it UVA vs FSU (Not Duke)?? and UVA won..

[Waspballer 10]

Yes it was UVA vs. FSU. Virginia won.

 

Carolina will still be in Omaha

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Wasn't it UVA vs FSU (Not Duke)?? and UVA won..

 

You're correct, my error. A 10-run thumping of God's gift to collegiate baseball makes me a little giddy. ;)

And yes, UVA won the ACC title over FSU yesterday, 6-3.

Again, coming through when it matters, right?

 

And as a reward, UVA receives THE BIGGEST JOKE perhaps in the history of regional seeding.

There is absolutely no reason UVA should be stuck in the Irvine regional.

Game #1: Stephen Strasburg and SDSU, perhaps the most hyped pitcher in college baseball in 20 years.

Game #2: facing either a national seed (UC-Irvine) or the defending national champions (Fresno State).

Oh yeah, those 3 schools, all California schools...

 

It is ridiculously unfathomable that a team with the #6 RPI (that's Virginia, not UC-Irvine, mind you), 12 losses (8 of them by 1 run), and the ACC Champions do not host a regional. Mind-boggling doesn't begin to describe it.

 

For those who disagree, and I'm sure some do, I'm not the only one who feels this way:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/college/?p=1319

http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/baseball/2009/May/25/86658.php

Edited May 26, 2009 by UVAObserver

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Just to show how livid I am over this, here's a basketball comparison:

1. UC-Irvine is ranked as the 6th national seed in this tournament.

2. One could reasonably equate the 6th national seed to a #2-seed in the Big Dance.

3. Tournaments routinely pair us stronger #1-seeds with weaker #2-seeds.

4. For Virginia to be in UC-Irvine's regional, it would be fair to say that the Hoos are a weak #2 seed.

5. By those same numbers, Virginia is 27th-overall to UC-Irvine's 6th-overall.

6. By this logic, one could equate Virginia to a #7-seed in the Big Dance, going on predicted regional finals.

 

Here's UVA's profile:

RPI: 6

2009 ACC Baseball Champions

Record: 43-12-1 (3 rainouts, 1 rain-shortened)

Winning percentage: .781 (2nd-best in all of college baseball, .5 game behind Arizona State)

Wins: 43 (most in the ACC, more than even the absolutely unbeatable Tar Heels)

 

In what alternate universe would a team with the above profile be the equivalent of a weak #2-seed in the NCAA Baseball tournament or a weak #7-seed in the Big Dance?! If this were basketball, and a similarly-profiled team were given a #7-seed, ESPN would be lit aflame with stories over it. BTW, UC-Irvine's RPI is 18...

[dawgs86 10]

i saw where Georgia Tech got to host a super regional when they were 14th in the nation and Washington was 3rd in softball.. dont really understand whats the deciding factor..

[GMan 3,569]

Just to show how livid I am over this, here's a basketball comparison:

1. UC-Irvine is ranked as the 6th national seed in this tournament.

2. One could reasonably equate the 6th national seed to a #2-seed in the Big Dance.

3. Tournaments routinely pair us stronger #1-seeds with weaker #2-seeds.

4. For Virginia to be in UC-Irvine's regional, it would be fair to say that the Hoos are a weak #2 seed.

5. By those same numbers, Virginia is 27th-overall to UC-Irvine's 6th-overall.

6. By this logic, one could equate Virginia to a #7-seed in the Big Dance, going on predicted regional finals.

 

Here's UVA's profile:

RPI: 6

2009 ACC Baseball Champions

Record: 43-12-1 (3 rainouts, 1 rain-shortened)

Winning percentage: .781 (2nd-best in all of college baseball, .5 game behind Arizona State)

Wins: 43 (most in the ACC, more than even the absolutely unbeatable Tar Heels)

 

In what alternate universe would a team with the above profile be the equivalent of a weak #2-seed in the NCAA Baseball tournament or a weak #7-seed in the Big Dance?! If this were basketball, and a similarly-profiled team were given a #7-seed, ESPN would be lit aflame with stories over it. BTW, UC-Irvine's RPI is 18...

 

 

I think you are incorrect on your assessment of the situation.

 

If UC-I is the #6 national seed and being that UVA is the #2 seed in that bracket, that would make UVA the #11 national seed, making them the third strongest #2 seed in the bracketing, or the equivalent of a #3 seed in the NCAA basketball tournament. The #4 seed in that bracket, Fresno St., would be the equivalent of the #27 national seed in the tournament out of 32 teams. The #3 seed, San Diego St., would be the equivalent of the #22 national seed in the tournament.

 

Quit bitching and enjoy the ride...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I think you are incorrect on your assessment of the situation.

 

If UC-I is the #6 national seed, being that UVA is the #2 seed in that bracket, that would make UVA the #11 national seed, making them the third strongest #2 seed in the bracketing, or the equivalent of a #3 seed in the NCAA basketball tournament. The #4 seed in that bracket, Fresno St., would be the equivalent of the #27 national seed in the tournament out of 32 teams. The #3 seed, San Diego St., would be the equivalent of the #22 national seed in the tournament.

 

While I appreciate the input (save your last sentence which I will certainly address below), I believe your analysis applies to a 32-team tournament, not a 64-team one, like the NCAA Baseball tournament is.

 

There are 16 regional sites. If UVA were truly the #11-national seed (which IMO is close), then we'd be hosting a regional (or at absolute worst, be taking a trip to North Carolina to be the travelling #1-seed at ECU). As such, we're not. And it's creating a fairly big buzz all around the college baseball world. Not just us, but travesties like letting Oklahoma State in, etc.

 

Making the NCAA baseball tournament isn't enough for Virginia fans anymore. We've made the tournament every year since 2003. With Brian O'Connor and our solid recruiting, that's a given. To put it as bluntly as I possibly can, winning the ACC tournament, finishing with a Top-10 RPI, having the 2nd-best winning percentage in the nation, and having more wins than anyone else in the conference has bought Virginia fans the right to bitch. It's the exact same reason the VT masses go into a mob-riot frenzy over Stinespring. When you're a solid team that gets jobbed, you've earned the right!

Edited May 26, 2009 by UVAObserver

[GMan 3,569]

My bad, I was thinking Super-Regionals...doesn't matter though, UVA is two and done in the Regionals...I mean, any team that loses 2 of 3 to VT can't be that good...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

My bad, I was thinking Super-Regionals...doesn't matter though, UVA is two and done in the Regionals...I mean, any team that loses 2 of 3 to VT can't be that good...

 

Just like we were 2-and-done in the ACC Tournament. Wait...

 

UVA felt sorry for VT. Before this year, your last baseball win was 2003. And we play 3 baseball games a year, of course; football just happens once. In short, we did it for our brothers in the Commonwealth. That's why VT's in the ACC in the first place, amirite? ;)

[EH31 2,532]

not having to do anything with baseball but did anyone see the championship game in lacrosse between cornell and syracuse?

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

When you are the 6th best team in your conference, that doesnt give you the right to complain. Sure they won the Tournament, but 27 games is greater than the few in the tourney. Not finishing in the upper half of your own division doesnt get you a #1 seed.

 

Do you have a legit argument to say you MIGHT should have been a #1 seed, sure.

 

But were you "jobbed" or "robbed"? No. You simply did not win during conference play. ACC got 4 top seeds. Miami didnt and finished ahead of you. UVA should just play, cause they obviously do not do well in the NCAA tournament.

 

Speaking of that, maybe you should be happy. You should remind us all of what happened the last 3 times UVA hosted a regional.

Edited May 27, 2009 by BEAVERTAIL

[Deleted Account 5,203]

not having to do anything with baseball but did anyone see the championship game in lacrosse between cornell and syracuse?

 

I specifically didn't watch it. :( Though I hear Cornell squandered many opportunities...

 

I love Dom Starsia. He's brought us Virginia fans many good times, multiple national championships, 3rd-winningest coach in lacrosse history. Great coach, great program, and you bet your sweet bottom-dollar any school would love to have a multiple-national-title-winning perennial-top-5 program in any, ANY sport.

 

However, I've noticed a bit of a disturbing trend. 85% of the time, Dom's squads bring their A-game, ready to play, sharp/crisp/clean passing and ball movement, solid goal play. However, 15% of the time, they bring their F-game: doing everything short of rolling over and dying on the field. That was the embarrassing 15-6 thwacking that Cornell laid on us. Forcing us, once again, to watch a team we've defeated in the regular season with the national title.

 

Definitely not displeased, I'm more than willing to take the good with the bad, especially with that particular program. It's a disheartening feeling to have it that close and watch us lay an egg that would've made Willy Wonka proud of his goose.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

When you are the 6th best team in your conference, that doesnt give you the right to complain. Sure they won the Tournament, but 27 games is greater than the few in the tourney. Not finishing in the upper half of your own division doesnt get you a #1 seed.

 

Do you have a legit argument to say you MIGHT should have been a #1 seed, sure.

 

But were you "jobbed" or "robbed"? No. You simply did not win during conference play. ACC got 4 top seeds. Miami didnt and finished ahead of you. UVA should just play, cause they obviously do not do well in the NCAA tournament.

 

Speaking of that, maybe you should be happy. You should remind us all of what happened the last 3 times UVA hosted a regional.

 

I respectfully, but strongly, disagree.

 

I refer you to that profile above. #6 in the RPI, 2nd-best winning percentage in the nation, most wins in conference, ACC Champions. It is patently absurd, nay certifiably insane, to not have a team as a #1-seed in this tournament with that kind of resume. Especially when placed against teams like Louisville and ECU. Complete and utter joke, and I am frankly dumbfounded by this committee. The best team we at Virginia have had in umpteen years, just to have the selection committee show the mental prowess of 3-year-olds when filling the bracket out. I could've had a monkey throw darts and pick a better result that this. Shoot, this bracket doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as monkeys.

 

You mention the conference losses. Would you confirm with me that there is exactly a 2.5 game margin between the conference records of the 1st-place team in the ACC (FSU, against whom Virginia went 2-0 by the margin of 21-5) and Virginia, who finished 6th in the ACC? You can see it for yourself as well: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-basebl/acc-m-basebl-body.html. Speaks to the extremely high level of competition in the ACC. I can vouch for the fact that Virginia had 2 total rainouts, costing them the opportunity for 2 more ACC wins. In addition, Virginia's game with Georgia Tech was rained out, resulting in a 1-1 tie. That's your aforementioned 2.5 game swing that you're not going to pick up just by looking at the numbers. This aside from three very winnable mid-week games (Delaware, Coastal Carolina, and Radford) that were likewise rained out. Using this line of rationale to justify why the selection committee saw UVA as basically the 27th-best team in the country is wildly deceptive. But hey, here's to having no ACC representatives on the selection committee!

 

And let's speak of the last three times, shall we?

In 2004, UVA came out of nowhere and flamed out due to inexperience. The start of the O'Connor era.

In 2006, UVA flat-out didn't deserve the #1-seed and got its just desserts. I can admit it.

In 2007, UVA got to meet the defending national champion in its regional. Didn't advance, but did give OSU-West its only loss.

 

And this year's team is different altogether. This will become one of my favorite UVA teams of all time if they can send the NCAA selection committee a big "f-you" and win that regional. And I'd bet $500 on it, whoever's winning the Irvine Regional is going to Omaha.

 

And if UVA fails this year, just wait until next year. That team's going to be loaded beyond belief...

Edited May 27, 2009 by UVAObserver

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

And let's speak of the last three times, shall we?

In 2004, UVA came out of nowhere and flamed out due to inexperience. The start of the O'Connor era.

In 2006, UVA flat-out didn't deserve the #1-seed and got its just desserts. I can admit it.

In 2007, UVA got to meet the defending national champion in its regional. Didn't advance, but did give OSU-West its only loss.

 

Finish this for me, excuses are like...

 

In 2007, they should have never lost the regional. They had to lose 2 in a row, and they did. That was the best team with Doolittle.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Finish this for me, excuses are like...

 

In 2007, they should have never lost the regional. They had to lose 2 in a row, and they did. That was the best team with Doolittle.

 

In 2007, in retrospect, losing the regional was understandable, considering what Oregon State did afterward. They only swept through to win the national title. That doesn't excuse the fact that Virginia let them off the hook, which they did. Leading in the 7th inning of Game #2 when up 1-0 in the virtual best-of-three, there's no excuse for it. But given the talent on Oregon State, it's not like we lost to some patsy. They ended up beating the Tar Heels in Omaha, did they not? They must be legitimate, then!

 

And no, I disagree that 2007 was Virginia's best team. The 2009 squad has nearly equivalent (though not as deep) pitching and FAR superior offensive potential than that 2007 squad. In 2007, Virginia relied on small-ball to win a lot (which they did); Doolittle was one of the only big bats on the squad. In 2009, Virginia can use its bats as well, hence scoring no less than 6 runs during the ACC Tournament (and scoring 11 twice).

 

TBH, I feel better about the ability of this particular Virginia team than any other in the past.

And even if Virginia falls, next year's team should scare people. Just wait...

Even given the F- job the selection committee did.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Serious question. Has UVA ever made a super regional?

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Serious question. Has UVA ever made a super regional?

 

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: The super-regional format didn't make its debut until 1999, anyway. UVA's a "nouveau riche" in college baseball as it were, having made the vast majority of its historical success since 2003. As something of which the Hokie contingency on this board should be quite aware, one coach/staff can completely revive a moribund program. Brian O'Connor did so all but immediately, and the results are obvious.

 

And I assure you that we will make a super-regional before Brian O'Connor moves along. Perhaps not this year, thanks selection committee. If not, then next year looks mighty bright. Again, we're young. And if that fails, I still have lacrosse and tennis to fall back on. Speaking of tennis, Virginia's doubles won the NCAA title recently. Not a team title, but something to be proud of. It's fun to follow the spring sports.

 

An interesting tidbit: the last national seed to win an NCAA baseball title was #5 Rice...in 2003.

[beano5 14]

An interesting tidbit: the last national seed to win an NCAA baseball title was #5 Rice...in 2003.

 

If I remember correctly, Rice had two OUTSTANDING pitchers that year and beat Texas to win it that year. Texas was going for back-to-back championships and got outplayed by very, very good pitching. Look out for Texas this year, they are back up to their game and could very well win it all again this year. My fingers are crossed because Texas baseball seems to be looked over a whole lot. They are very good year in and year out.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

If I remember correctly, Rice had two OUTSTANDING pitchers that year and beat Texas to win it that year. Texas was going for back-to-back championships and got outplayed by very, very good pitching. Look out for Texas this year, they are back up to their game and could very well win it all again this year. My fingers are crossed because Texas baseball seems to be looked over a whole lot. They are very good year in and year out.

 

Rice was indeed stacked that year, you remember correctly!

If you have 2 stud pitchers, you can win a regional and super-regional.

For instance, there's a reason SDSU is 27-20 without Strasburg...

 

But Texas has been a fair bit under the radar. There are really 20-25 teams that I wouldn't be shocked to see in Omaha.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Probably my last post on the original issue.

This website has a good summary of the bungled tournament selections: http://theragingbull.com/0509db/052709.htm

 

Note specifically this WONDERFUL article by Jerry Ratcliffe. I think we have a winner...

 

UVa gets short end of the stick

By Jerry Ratcliffe

Published: May 27, 2009

 

A few unanswered questions remain about how the team with the sixth-highest RPI in the nation was treated more like a non-top 25 program by the NCAA Division I baseball committee over the weekend.

 

For years now, all we’ve heard about is how tournament selections are made on various criteria, with the RPI being a chief component. That’s the way it is with selection committees in most sports, but apparently not with baseball committee chairman Tim Weiser’s committee.

 

In perhaps one of the worst jobs ever by a tournament selection committee, Weiser was talking out of both sides of his mouth in trying to explain some choices that were either incredibly stupid or incredibly political.

 

What’s going on?

 

Either way, this committee gave the shaft to the people that matter most, or at least are supposed to matter most to the NCAA, and that is their own student-athletes.

 

Let’s start with Virginia, the team that was profoundly shafted. The Cavaliers won the ACC Tournament, beating three ranked teams in four days after finishing with a decent regular season, placing sixth out of 12 teams.

 

The ACC is rated as the best conference in the country and, while UVa didn’t play a strong nonconference schedule, the Cavaliers won 20 games in its own league, which accounted for the sixth-best RPI in the nation.

 

While there was some debate as to whether Virginia would host a regional, although this band of Wahoos are better than some other UVa teams that have hosted, absolutely no one would have predicted the Cavaliers’ fate.

 

Instead of hosting, or playing in a regional, say close by like at East Carolina, Weiser’s committee sends Virginia clear across the country into what was already a strong regional with UC Irvine, which was ranked the No. 1 team in the nation most of the season; with defending College World Series champion Fresno State; and with San Diego State, which boasts the No. 1 pitcher in America.

 

The question is why?

 

We have a strong suspicion that the television folks may have had something to do with it all. Isn’t it a bit odd that ESPN will televise two regionals nationally, and this is one of them?

 

Isn’t it just a little strange that San Diego State coach Tony Gwynn happens to have a strong relationship with ESPN, from whom he used to draw a paycheck?

 

We have to believe that the NCAA committee caved in to pressure by the TV people to make the Irvine regional a sexy draw in order to attract viewers. Clearly, the committee wasn’t thinking of the athletes, including Irvine, which probably expected a creampuff first round draw instead of the defending national champs.

 

And what about UVa? For all the Cavaliers accomplished, winning the toughest conference in the country, they are rewarded by being shipped clear across the country to face ace right-hander Stephen Strasburg, most likely the top pick in the Major League Baseball draft.

 

Coincidence? We think not.

 

Something smells here, and it smells of TV and ratings and the NCAA committee not have enough brass to tell TV to back off.

 

Most who follow the bracketology of the baseball tournament expected Washington State to fill that fourth slot in Irvine, which would have made much more sense for a variety of reasons, including economics.

 

It would have made more sense to either have UVa host or at least take a short trip to ECU, and for Washington State to stay on its coast. But no ... that didn’t have the same saucy flavor of adding UVa to a regional that ESPN wanted to televise in the first place.

 

If that’s the case, and TV influenced the NCAA to switch things around just for ratings, then some head should be rolling.

 

Can you imagine if TV came in and influenced the NCAA basketball committee to pull the switcheroo on its field just to enhance the ratings?

 

It would be a national scandal, an outrage from coast to coast.

 

Cavaliers’ coach Brian O’Connor took the high road when asked about the selection before Tuesday’s practice at Davenport Field.

 

We asked him if he would use the slap from the NCAA as motivation for his team.

“Absolutely,” the Virginia skipper said. “This is an opportunity for Virginia baseball, our team, our players to show the country what this program is all about. It’s a nationally televised regional, there’s going to be a lot of hype around it and we have an opportunity to make our program shine on a national level.

 

“We’ve obviously won a lot of games in the years past, but we haven’t made a statement at the end of a year from the national standpoint,” O’Connor continued.

 

“This is providing an unbelievable opportunity for this because there’s a lot of controversy around it and we’re playing great teams, going to the No. 1 team in the country’s ballpark and probably facing the No. 1 pitcher in the country, and the defending national champion being there.”

 

Weiser said that Virginia was given its fate because of a weak nonconference schedule.

True, the Cavs don’t play a great non-league slate, however strength of schedule is a key ingredient to a team’s RPI, which again we point out was No. 6 in the entire nation.

Virginia wasn’t the only bungle by Weiser’s committee. Weiser, who just happens to be deputy commissioner of the Big 12, seemed to make sure that his conference had nine teams in the 64-team field.

 

While most of those are legit, one has to do some head scratching to figure out how Baylor and Oklahoma State were included. Baylor lost 12 of its last 14 games and its last 10 conference games.

 

Oklahoma State (32-22), finished ninth in the conference and didn’t even qualify for its own conference tournament?

 

Huh?

 

How could a team that didn’t qualify for its own conference tournament qualify for the national tournament?

 

This whole thing stinks and smacks of TV meddling and politics.

 

If the NCAA really cares about transparency and fairness to the kids its supposed to serve, then it needs to examine how tournament selections are handled and needs to take a very close look at how Weiser and his committee caved in to pressure.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

There is no conspiracy.

 

Both Miami and UVA had top 10 RPIs and didnt get a #1 seed. Miami got stuck with Florida.

 

Obviously, RPI does not account for that much with the committee.

[GMan 3,569]

Instead of hosting, or playing in a regional, say close by like at East Carolina, Weiser’s committee sends Virginia clear across the country into what was already a strong regional with UC Irvine, which was ranked the No. 1 team in the nation most of the season; with defending College World Series champion Fresno State; and with San Diego State, which boasts the No. 1 pitcher in America.

 

As I said, UVA is 2 and out in the Regional...