Time is right for Graham; Grundy to shift down

[WaveFan09 50]

Column by BRIAN WOODSON

Bluefield Daily Telegraph

Every athlete deserves at least a fighting chance. Yet, there are many students out there that not only have no chance to win a state championship, but don’t even have a chance to play for one, and it’s not through any fault of their own.

 

It simply comes down to numbers, and not those on the scoreboard. A school with 550 students simply can’t compete on a consistent basis with an opponent that has an enrollment of 1,200 or even 1,500 and more.

 

That’s the reason why the decision made earlier this week by Graham High School — and also by Grundy — to move down from Group AA to Group A in classification makes perfect sense.

 

The time is right.

 

No one wants to lose the tradition of the Southwest District, but that tradition hasn’t been what it once was. That’s simply because other schools in Region IV are in larger areas, they have more students, and have more athletes to choose from.

 

Winning the SWD is a nice accomplishment, but in most cases that is where it stops.

 

Leaving the SWD wasn’t an easy decision for either school, but the league will continue on. The tradition of playing Richlands and Tazewell for Graham and Grundy will still be alive, but they’ll just go their separate ways when the postseason begins.

 

It’s a necessary change. While it is possible for a smallish school to play the role of David and knock off Goliath, it doesn’t happen often.

 

It did in 2001 when the Council Cobras, with an enrollment of barely over 100, won the Group A boys basketball championship, and this was in the days before divisional play.

 

It was no fluke. The Cobras had reached the same point in 2000, but lost. Not this time. The Rick Goodman-led squad had a talented starting five paced by Brad Nuckles and Ryan Rasnake, two of the state’s best players at one of the state’s smallest schools.

 

That just doesn’t happen, but it did on this team. Yet, the unbelievers were out there. Working in Bristol at the time and covering the “King†Cobras, I fielded a call from a Washington Post reporter who simply didn’t believe Council could be such a small school and win a championship.

 

Once again, it wasn’t a fluke. Council returned to the state tourney the following season, but lost in the semifinals.

 

With divisional play, the disparity in enrollment hasn’t been as bad in football or now in basketball. Some might say it’s watered down. What it does is it gives more schools and students a chance to dream, and a reason to participate again. Some athletes might just walk away, figuring what’s the use since there is no hope of the ultimate goal. Or, transfer to another school where that chance might be better. A state champion is a state champion. In the end, no one is going ask what class you’re in, an athlete will simply be known as a champion.

 

Virginia has lots of high schools, lots more than, say, West Virginia. A quick look at the basketball scores on the AP wire each night is proof of that. The Mountain State scores are very brief , the Virginia games just go on and on, so much so that I usually clip many of them out just to save on space.

 

What divisional play has done is give more schools a chance. What’s wrong with having six champions instead of three? It wouldn’t work in West Virginia — where there has been talk of a fourth division, but the state is just too small — but in Virginia it’s a good idea.

 

Take a school like Bland County — whose girls basketball team lost 124 straight games from 1991-97. The Bears now have an opportunity and they’ve done plenty with it, making it to two straight state tournaments, and they were possibly one bad quarter away from winning it all last year.

 

As for non-revenue sports, athletes in this area simply have no hope, at least until divisional play arrives in those sports too, and that appears to be on the horizon in the future.

 

Just look at how few athletes from Graham — along with Tazewell, Richlands and Grundy — have even managed to qualify for the state track meet in recent years. Population drops are continuing in Tazewell and Richlands, and they both may have to eventually look into such a move in the years to come. In sports like soccer, tennis, track, golf, baseball, softball, wrestling, cross country and volleyball, the hopes for state tournament participation has been almost nil in recent seasons. My niece was part of some excellent Graham soccer teams, but they knew when they got out of the district and into the regions that they would be one and done.

 

They would show up, play hard, but still lose big, and come home, knowing they never really had a chance since because of the schools that awaited them in regional play. Those schools weren’t any more worthy, but they simply had more players, more talent, and it catches up with the smaller schools.

 

Not anymore. Starting in the 2011 school year, all athletes at Graham will have a chance. The same goes for Grundy. Both schools will drop to Group A, and will be Division 2, with the G-Men in the Mountain Empire District, and Grundy in the Black Diamond. Both will be nice upgrades for their new districts. Grundy fits perfectly in the BDD, especially in football since Haysi and Honaker have dominated that four-team football league for years, while the MED will finally be able to replace Pocahontas and will have six schools that are competitive in most sports.

 

This move won’t spell the end of the SWD or rivalries with Bluefield, Tazewell, Richlands or Princeton. Those games will still be intense, meaningful and among the most popular on the schedule when they play, no matter what the sport.

 

No one is going to care that it’s not a district game. It’s simply a rivalry game, and both sides will treat it as such.

 

Graham athletics has struggled in recent seasons, and have had precious few athletes or teams even reach state competition. It’s been even tougher for Grundy. There’s a reason why. As the two smallest Group AA teams in Virginia, they were playing against a loaded deck.

 

At least when the 2011-12 school year arrives, they’ll have a chance to dream. Isn’t that all anyone can really ask for?

[trigger 10]

Good article. Worth noting the obvious....that these schools could have dropped a long time ago. THey chose to "play up". Is that accurate?

[RichlandsAlum 678]

Good article. Worth noting the obvious....that these schools could have dropped a long time ago. THey chose to "play up". Is that accurate?

 

 

Yes. In Graham's case, I think the G-Men have actually been "playing up" for most of the period since the current classification system was implemented in 1970.

[Lance 228]

they both have...Grundy hasn't had big numbers since the late 80's - early -90's.

[blueinbama 259]

they both have...Grundy hasn't had big numbers since the late 80's - early -90's.

How will this effect teams like Richlands and Tazewell as far as the points situation is concerned by now playing a single A Graham and Grundy?

[Lance 228]

How will this effect teams like Richlands and Tazewell as far as the points situation is concerned by now playing a single A Graham and Grundy?

 

depends...if Grundy wins more at A level, then it will probably even out...if they lose you will get less points for beating them....with Grundy not winning more than 5 or 6 games or whatever in 5 years you didn't get many points anyway....but if they can win 8 or so a year in the BDD it would come closer to being evened out...bonus points for wins and all that...unless they change from the current system.

 

So...bottom line...probably wont change much, may actually improve if the A level teams you play and beat are winning more games.

[BigD4VT 11]

How will this effect teams like Richlands and Tazewell as far as the points situation is concerned by now playing a single A Graham and Grundy?

Richlands at 9-1 had to travel to 8-2 Cave Spring because Cave had more points. Richlands will be playing the same schedule as before but Graham and Grundy will now be worth fewer points. Yes, it's possible both could win more in A but I don't think it will even things out. I don't think the new A teams on their schedules will equal that many wins over the 2-3 AA schools they will be dropping (does that make any sense?). Bottom line. Richlands or Tazewell will need a 10-0 season to have any chance of hosting a Region IV championship...

[blueinbama 259]

Richlands at 9-1 had to travel to 8-2 Cave Spring because Cave had more points. Richlands will be playing the same schedule as before but Graham and Grundy will now be worth fewer points. Yes, it's possible both could win more in A but I don't think it will even things out. I don't think the new A teams on their schedules will equal that many wins over the 2-3 AA schools they will be dropping (does that make any sense?). Bottom line. Richlands or Tazewell will need a 10-0 season to have any chance of hosting a Region IV championship...

That being the case, do you guys see RHS possibly picking up another AA game and dropping one of their other single A opponents...not Graham or Grundy, but possibly a not so traditional rivalry? Edited February 1, 2010 by blueinbama

[BigD4VT 11]

No, all of the AA teams in the area are already in the SWD. AA schools from the River Ridge and Piedmont haven't been willing to come to Richlands. They have no reason to because they can get plenty of AA, and even AAA opponents closer to home.

[Lance 228]

I don't think it will be that bad...points wise anyway.

[GMan 3,569]

Richlands at 9-1 had to travel to 8-2 Cave Spring because Cave had more points. Richlands will be playing the same schedule as before but Graham and Grundy will now be worth fewer points. Yes, it's possible both could win more in A but I don't think it will even things out. I don't think the new A teams on their schedules will equal that many wins over the 2-3 AA schools they will be dropping (does that make any sense?). Bottom line. Richlands or Tazewell will need a 10-0 season to have any chance of hosting a Region IV championship...

 

THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!! RICHLANDS MAY NEVER HOST ANOTHER REGION CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!

 

Let's try to be a bit more dramatic BigD! LOL

 

You have to remember this, which is one MAJOR point you are overlooking...Cave Spring had their best season in MANY years this year. They are normally in the bottom half of the RRD...and, they are the ONLY D-3 school in the RRD.

 

With Region IV losing Graham and Grundy, Abingdon will be the next team to drop to D-3 in the Region, still leaving CS as the only RRD school in D-3.

 

CS is not likely to finish 8-2 or better on an annual basis and Richlands will likely continue their domination of the SWD. Richlands will finish 8-2 or better just about every year...Cave would have to finish 7-3 or better and beat the "right" teams to earn enough points for a repeat of what happened this year to occur again.

 

All is not lost, Richlands will have ample opportunities to host a D-3 Region Championship game in the future....

[BigD4VT 11]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!! RICHLANDS MAY NEVER HOST ANOTHER REGION CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!

 

Let's try to be a bit more dramatic BigD! LOL

 

You have to remember this, which is one MAJOR point you are overlooking...Cave Spring had their best season in MANY years this year. They are normally in the bottom half of the RRD...and, they are the ONLY D-3 school in the RRD.

 

With Region IV losing Graham and Grundy, Abingdon will be the next team to drop to D-3 in the Region, still leaving CS as the only RRD school in D-3.

 

CS is not likely to finish 8-2 or better on an annual basis and Richlands will likely continue their domination of the SWD. Richlands will finish 8-2 or better just about every year...Cave would have to finish 7-3 or better and beat the "right" teams to earn enough points for a repeat of what happened this year to occur again.

 

All is not lost, Richlands will have ample opportunities to host a D-3 Region Championship game in the future....

Wasn't being dramatic at all. Just answering his question of how Graham and Grundy dropping will effect Richlands. You're wrong if you don't think losing those points will matter.

[hokie07 11]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!! RICHLANDS MAY NEVER HOST ANOTHER REGION CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!

 

Let's try to be a bit more dramatic BigD! LOL

 

You have to remember this, which is one MAJOR point you are overlooking...Cave Spring had their best season in MANY years this year. They are normally in the bottom half of the RRD...and, they are the ONLY D-3 school in the RRD.

 

With Region IV losing Graham and Grundy, Abingdon will be the next team to drop to D-3 in the Region, still leaving CS as the only RRD school in D-3.

 

CS is not likely to finish 8-2 or better on an annual basis and Richlands will likely continue their domination of the SWD. Richlands will finish 8-2 or better just about every year...Cave would have to finish 7-3 or better and beat the "right" teams to earn enough points for a repeat of what happened this year to occur again.

 

All is not lost, Richlands will have ample opportunities to host a D-3 Region Championship game in the future....

 

GMan, does Graham's move affect the point value that Bluefield is allotted for a win against the G-Men?

 

I know the WVSSAC looks at an out-of-state school's enrollment to decipher how many points will be awarded for wins. If I'm not mistaken, Graham's enrollement is still classified as a "AA" school in WV so a Bluefield win should still count for 2 points regardless of them dropping to a lower classification in VA. Am I right?

[bigdaddyg 10]

they both have...Grundy hasn't had big numbers since the late 80's - early -90's.

the people of grundy wanted to go 5 years ago but the powers that be said no alot of kids have been hurt by this. hope it's not to late.:(

[futbolking 766]

Good article. Worth noting the obvious....that these schools could have dropped a long time ago. THey chose to "play up". Is that accurate?

 

Very True...until Grundy surpassed them, Graham has been the smallest AA school in the state for years and years...with enrollment hovering between 400 - 600 for the past 25 years or so...They have petitioned to play AA until now. They've always held their own in football, until recently. Most people I talk to from out of the area know Graham for it's football teams of the past...and they simply can't believe that Graham is such a small school.

[futbolking 766]

That being the case, do you guys see RHS possibly picking up another AA game and dropping one of their other single A opponents...not Graham or Grundy, but possibly a not so traditional rivalry?

 

The TCSB will demand that the county teams play each other...dropping Graham from the schedule is not an option.

[Lance 228]

the people of grundy wanted to go 5 years ago but the powers that be said no alot of kids have been hurt by this. hope it's not to late.:(

 

I dont think they needed to drop until now, was hoping that most of the SWD would all drop at once...as for kids being hurt? I don't think so...Grundy is not going to fair any better in A level in most sports than they do now at AA...I dont think.

 

Instead of Richlands, it will be Gate City or Clintwood you have to go through...and Gate City has beaten Richlands lately, so that's no easy way to go...so...I sure hope the people of Grundy are not thinking just because Grundy is dropping to A level that it's going to all of the sudden improve the program(s)...because its not...the A level and AA level of competition on this end of the state is pretty level as far as that goes....when you get to a regional level is where you see a larger gap.

 

If you need any more proof of what I'm saying...Hurley just spanked Grundy pretty hard the other night in basketball...you are talking a BDD school where Grundy is going to the same district after the drop...and Hurley has half the kids Grundy does as far as numbers....you don't improve a program by dropping...that takes actual work...hard work.

[WaveFan09 50]

it will do them a hell of a lot more good than AA

[Lance 228]

it will do them a hell of a lot more good than AA

 

 

what good exactly is it going to do them?

[RichlandsAlum 678]

The TCSB will demand that the county teams play each other...dropping Graham from the schedule is not an option.

 

 

Just like they required Graham, Richlands, and Tazewell to schedule Pocahontas all of those years, right?

 

While it seems reasonable to assume that Richlands and Tazewell will continue to schedule the G-Men for the foreseeable future, it also seems wise to note that this is merely an assumption. There is no absolute rule that governs the relationship once Graham is in a separate district.

[Lance 228]

Just like they required Graham, Richlands, and Tazewell to schedule Pocahontas all of those years, right?

 

While it seems reasonable to assume that Richlands and Tazewell will continue to schedule the G-Men for the foreseeable future, it also seems wise to note that this is merely an assumption. There is no absolute rule that governs the relationship once Graham is in a separate district.

 

who says the other teams will schedule Richlands? I think they have beat Grundy for like 20 years straight now...who knows if Grundy will want to continue?

[RichlandsAlum 678]

who says the other teams will schedule Richlands? I think they have beat Grundy for like 20 years straight now...who knows if Grundy will want to continue?

 

You raise a valid point. Richlands has gone through "dry spells" in terms of finding non-district opponents before and had to come up with creative scheduling solutions.

 

That's one reason why district alignment will be so important. It's probably best for everyone if districts are as large as is practical to avoid issues with finding a lot of non-district opponents. And along those lines, I would submit that 9 is probably the optimal number in terms of district membership.

[GMan 3,569]

Wasn't being dramatic at all. Just answering his question of how Graham and Grundy dropping will effect Richlands. You're wrong if you don't think losing those points will matter.

 

It will cost .4 on the ratings points for each team, if you beat them...so .8 on your rating total as a max. This year, that would have dropped your rating from 27.1 to 26.3 and you'd still have had the #2 seed...

[hoard 18]

Just like they required Graham, Richlands, and Tazewell to schedule Pocahontas all of those years, right?

 

While it seems reasonable to assume that Richlands and Tazewell will continue to schedule the G-Men for the foreseeable future, it also seems wise to note that this is merely an assumption. There is no absolute rule that governs the relationship once Graham is in a separate district.

 

Did Pocahontas even WANT to play the other county schools in football, and vice-versa? I know they played some of the other county schools fairly often over the years in basketball, but I can't imagine any of the schools wanting a football series.

[bigdaddyg 10]

:mad:

I dont think they needed to drop until now, was hoping that most of the SWD would all drop at once...as for kids being hurt? I don't think so...Grundy is not going to fair any better in A level in most sports than they do now at AA...I dont think.

 

Instead of Richlands, it will be Gate City or Clintwood you have to go through...and Gate City has beaten Richlands lately, so that's no easy way to go...so...I sure hope the people of Grundy are not thinking just because Grundy is dropping to A level that it's going to all of the sudden improve the program(s)...because its not...the A level and AA level of competition on this end of the state is pretty level as far as that goes....when you get to a regional level is where you see a larger gap.

 

If you need any more proof of what I'm saying...Hurley just spanked Grundy pretty hard the other night in basketball...you are talking a BDD school where Grundy is going to the same district after the drop...and Hurley has half the kids Grundy does as far as numbers....you don't improve a program by dropping...that takes actual work...hard work.

yes i agree with every thing you say but with the numbers it would have just put the kids on an even playing field and as resident of buch. co. the reason for not letting the school go A years ago was not about the kids or money but for other reasons, it"s sad but true just ask anybody who lives in buch co.:mad: