RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Did Pocahontas even WANT to play the other county schools in football, and vice-versa? I know they played some of the other county schools fairly often over the years in basketball, but I can't imagine any of the schools wanting a football series. Outside of the county tournament held a few times around the holidays in the early 1980's, I'm not aware of ANY athletic interaction between Pocahontas and the other county schools at the high school level. And I'm willing to bet that wasn't for lack of interest on the Pocy side. More evidence IMO that we simply can't take the current relationships for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoard 18 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Outside of the county tournament held a few times around the holidays in the early 1980's, I'm not aware of ANY athletic interaction between Pocahontas and the other county schools at the high school level. And I'm willing to bet that wasn't for lack of interest on the Pocy side. More evidence IMO that we simply can't take the current relationships for granted. Tazewell and Graham (and I think Richlands) all played Pocahontas in boys and girls basketball off and on in regular-season games (not the county tournament) in the late 80s and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH31 2,532 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Tazewell and Graham (and I think Richlands) all played Pocahontas in boys and girls basketball off and on in regular-season games (not the county tournament) in the late 80s and after. pocahontas competed against all 3 schools, usually every year. Volleyball, girls basketball, soccer and track esp. They competed in just asport except for football up untill the school closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Wasn't aware of the relationships between Pocy and the other county schools after 1989 (which is when I moved away). I appreciate the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveFan09 50 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) what good exactly is it going to do them? read the article, lol and how fun would it be if everyone had the same opinon..not very fun lol Edited February 2, 2010 by WaveFan09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 :mad: yes i agree with every thing you say but with the numbers it would have just put the kids on an even playing field and as resident of buch. co. the reason for not letting the school go A years ago was not about the kids or money but for other reasons, it"s sad but true just ask anybody who lives in buch co.:mad: Ok here it is...I'm going to probably piss some people off right here...but, I'm going to lay it out and break it down for you: my point is that A and AA in this area is already "level"...the lines are blurred...if anyone thinks that by going down to A level this will somehow be a magical turnaround of Grundy's sports progams, then you are all sadly mistaken....you will find out soon enough...going to A now or 5 years ago doesn't really matter...the programs still need to be re-focused and there needs to be a lot of work and commitment done before you will see any success at a regional level, doesn't matter if you are at A or AA...there seems to be this big theory floating around that all of the sudden Grundy is going to drop down and just all of the sudden see this big improvement across the board and it's going to be this big huge benefit to the kids for doing so....I'm here to tell you that other than maybe in wrestling....you are not going to see that...this seems to be what people have been sold and bought in to...it is just NOT going to happen....I'm a Grundy fan to the bone and I probably bleed blue and gold as much as anyone...I grew up in Grundy...my parents still live there...trust me I am one of Grundy's own...I know as well as anyone how things in Buchanan County work...this whole idea that dropping to A level will make Grundy somehow "better" is just not true...what will make Grundy better is for the kids to get off their asses and stop playing Xbox and PS3 and start playing ball...for the people who coach the kids to start giving a damn about the programs and make an effort to better them, and for the parents to stop complaining about anything and everything and support the kids and the coaches....it's a 3 horned monster and they all have to work together...the kids, the parents, and the coaches....until that happens you will never see real success in Grundy or any other place...when you see it come together like it has in Richlands...then you see success...but people don't want to hear that...they don't want to admit Richlands has this sort of thing in place...and notice I have not said anything about Tazewell County...Graham and Tazewell are in the same boat...the reason you don't see success is because the programs have broken down over the past few years...Tazewell has too many hands in the pot, Graham can't get anyone to get past Carlock not being there anymore...it's been gloom and doom since the great coach sadly passed away...Marrs has suffered what I call "Danny White Syndrome"...no matter what he did or has done, the majority of the people there will not give him a fair shake...you can blame the numbers all you want...you can win a weaker district...but once you get beyond that you STILL have to deal with teams that have good programs...teams that are at the A level around here who are just as good as the AA teams. For Grundy...the wrestling team is able to compete at the AA level...they may not be able to win state because C-Burg has just as good or better commitment in their program as Grundy does...they should after all since Grundy pretty much laid the foundation for their program to begin with....Grundy will still have to beat the best teams at A level to win state...but, they can probably do so...all they have done is dodge C-Burg by Grundy moving down...if Grundy can go to a national tourney like Reno and year in and year out be in the top 20 teams out of over 100 top programs from all over the nation at ANY level...that says a lot...and you are telling me that these same outstanding athletes...the very same kids...can't compete in football? Basketball? or whatever? That's bull...the difference is the commitment and the desire to compete at a higher level. If the same money, commitment, and program was in place for the other sports as they have in wrestling you would see the same results. Richlands has that sort of thing going on right now...instead of looking at it and trying to follow it or expand on it, or even acknowledge it...most people just complain or are jealous of it...they say they cheat, or have to use xfr's...or whatever bogus excuse...same thing is said about C-Burg in wrestling..."they recruit kids from all over the world"...I've heard it all...."they don't work as hard as we do"...well, yeah they do...they work just as hard as we work...you can xfr in as many kids as you want...they still have to stand toe to toe and beat a kid that is the same weight on the same mat...it's all about how bad you want it and how much you are willing to work to make yourself the best at what you do....that's what it boils down to...and to be honest, very few have that kind of desire because it's not easy....it's hard...but, even if the kid does have it...there has to be an outlet for it to grow...the wrestling team has that outlet...the other programs really don't...the coaches, the kids, the parents...it's all got to come together for it to work and work well...right now we don't have that...and it's not any one of the three groups thats to blame...you can't single out just one...it all has to come together and they all bare equal weight. Which reminds me....I met an old Negro League Baseball player once named John "Mule" Miles....he told me something that always stuck with me...it's simple, yet says a lot...he told me "Winning is not by mistake, it's how we play the game". So...you can put Grundy or any of these schools at any level you want...you can blame whoever you want and say whatever you want about numbers and how unfair the world is...but, until you actually see the programs change...there will be no change in the results....so don't blame the coaches...the numbers....the kids...or anything else...it's not about that...it's about all the above and the commitment that it takes to win. read the article read the rest of the thread in response to the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrundyWinsAll 10 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I do not want to turn this into a yes we should, no we shouldn't arguement. However, to thnk that the only problem is " they don't work as hard as we did when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth" is not an accurate discription of the problem. Everybody has heard the "older" generation say "when we was young we walked to school uphill both ways". The reality is you can't walk up hill both ways. However, with your logic you can take any team and win any division, I can tell you you can't. Teams with "programs" will do better than teams without programs. Larger Schools have advantages over smaller schools. As for who this helps, I say everyone. Football- Beat Haysi who was in Region finals, if Grundy equals their performance this years team would of been one of the top 8 best Grundy Football teams ever. Instead they can hang their hat on a SWD win. Basketball- Have already swept Twin Valley. Wrestling- The team we have would set state scoring records for single A this year. Cross Country- One of the top Single A schools in the state. I do not see the "not gonna change anything" defence. This is why I personally have pushed for the Drop since the Principal changed. Math is simple 450< 800-2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I do not want to turn this into a yes we should, no we shouldn't arguement. However, to thnk that the only problem is " they don't work as hard as we did when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth" is not an accurate discription of the problem. Everybody has heard the "older" generation say "when we was young we walked to school uphill both ways". The reality is you can't walk up hill both ways. However, with your logic you can take any team and win any division, I can tell you you can't. Teams with "programs" will do better than teams without programs. Larger Schools have advantages over smaller schools. As for who this helps, I say everyone. Football- Beat Haysi who was in Region finals, if Grundy equals their performance this years team would of been one of the top 8 best Grundy Football teams ever. Instead they can hang their hat on a SWD win. Basketball- Have already swept Twin Valley. Wrestling- The team we have would set state scoring records for single A this year. Cross Country- One of the top Single A schools in the state. I do not see the "not gonna change anything" defence. This is why I personally have pushed for the Drop since the Principal changed. Math is simple 450< 800-2000. and I said...you can win a weaker district...that much is true...but where do you go from there? Playoffs...then what do you find? The same thing you will find at the regions now...better programs...that's what I'm talking about. Think about it...you beat Haysi in football...win the BDD...then what? Do you beat Giles, George Wythe, Clintwood, or Gate City...or even Powell Valley? Grundy's success in football is the result of a good group of kids that have come up with experience from playing the past couple of years and their commitment to win...they have worked hard just to get to 5-5...maybe they would have been 7-3 at A level...maybe not...maybe they would have not even made the playoffs...you just don't have any way to know that. They look to be good for next year...I think they will do well even with being at AA level vs. A. As for taking any team and winning....it depends on how well you have built your team...the wrestling team has success because you guys work hard year round...you have a great program in place...the kids start out early and grow up with it...you know as well as I do the football program has nothing like it in place....has nothing to do with walking uphill both ways to school or how it was done when i was in school...we went 0-10 one year i was in school and had over 100 kids out for two-a-days...all kinds of kids, couldn't produce a single win...the next year we were 5-5 and had a share of the SWD...still only 5-15 over a two year span with 100 kids or more out each year....at the same time the very same kids were winning state in wrestling. All I'm saying is that until things change on a few levels...going to A level is not just going to make everything better overnight...there is a lot of work to be done before that will happen...if that sort of work was going on now, even with lower numbers, we would still be able to compete at AA level in this area. Is Grundy an A level school...sure...do we belong there? sure...will it be any better with no more effort put in to the programs? marginal at best. Do you not agree? If we continue to put the same amount of effort in to the programs that we put in now, do you honestly believe that just dropping to A level will make those same teams any better? I don't...I think if you want a better football team you have to buy in to football year round and work for it, play the 7 on 7's and maybe even host a few of your own...have serious workouts...send kids to camp...start trying to get kids to the next level and make sure they have the grades to get there as well as the talent to play ball...that sort of thing...it's just not there...not in basketball, football, or anything else...except for wrestling....and it won't happen over night....and I don't think it will happen by just going to A level? It runs a little deeper than that. Some people seem to think that it will...I just don't see it. Honestly...what do you think? I agree we belong at A level by the numbers...I have no problem with that...I'd like to see the SWD all drop that can drop...that was my original hope, that everyone could move down...I didn't think it was a good idea to move down in mid-cycle...but on the next cycle is fine....so, not saying we don't belong there...I just don't think we will instantly have better teams by dropping and I don't think you will see a huge improvement by doing so...I think if people want to see that, then more changes need to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPF 417 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) I do not want to turn this into a yes we should, no we shouldn't arguement. However, to thnk that the only problem is " they don't work as hard as we did when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth" is not an accurate discription of the problem. Everybody has heard the "older" generation say "when we was young we walked to school uphill both ways". The reality is you can't walk up hill both ways. However, with your logic you can take any team and win any division, I can tell you you can't. Teams with "programs" will do better than teams without programs. Larger Schools have advantages over smaller schools. As for who this helps, I say everyone. Football- Beat Haysi who was in Region finals, if Grundy equals their performance this years team would of been one of the top 8 best Grundy Football teams ever. Instead they can hang their hat on a SWD win. Basketball- Have already swept Twin Valley. Wrestling- The team we have would set state scoring records for single A this year. Cross Country- One of the top Single A schools in the state. I do not see the "not gonna change anything" defence. This is why I personally have pushed for the Drop since the Principal changed. Math is simple 450< 800-2000. Maybe I am wrong here, but didn't Grundy lose a couple of times to Haysi in the last 5 years? So I guess that means that 300> 450. If you lose to Haysi, the problem is not numbers. I mean come on, you lost to Matewan too. You going to blame that on numbers too? I think Lance has located the problem. Edited February 3, 2010 by CPF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrundyWinsAll 10 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I do not think that a drop alone will make everyone a state powerhouse. I am saying every team will do better than they currently are. Does is make Football a state champ, no, but it does give them a chance to win the district instead of winning a district game. The problem is some lunatics think that to win 1 SWD game is "better" than winning the district in single A. Power points may agree, but I bet the team would rather have some wins. Lets remember what this is. Kids extracurricular activities. Do you want them to have good memories or bad? Being on a winning team with a winning record with some post season aspirations would be a dream for many of the kids. It really set in on me of all places in Iowa. The wrestlers meet other athletes who say, I bet your good at football too. The next thing out is no we have only won 1 district game in 5 years. Much like I said last summer, give them some games to win, schedule a winning record, and give them a chance for some local success. You get fans out. This year looked like old Grundy games till we got to SWD play. Then the bottom dropped out. That is what happens. I am glad that we are supposed to go single A. I think it will only help an area with a dwindling population. I also will invite any of the other SWD teams that would like to drop to follow the same course we did and in another decade or so come on down too! Ha! Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 problem is you are in a 5 team district now...and beating Haysi and Honaker every year might not be easy either....then you still have 6 non district games to schedule...who are you going to schedule that you can beat so you have a winning record and the kids get a happy feeling about going to the playoffs every year and getting waxed 55-0 in the first round? Is that what we are after? Are those the memories you want kids to have? I'm saying build a program that will allow you to compete at a State level vs. winning an empty district every year....would the wrestling team shoot to win district every year as the main goal or do you guys want to go and compete not just at a state level, but a national level? Would you not like to see the kids that paly football enjoy the same success as the wrestlers do? of course you would...I know you would, i see you at every game...you are one of the few lol. The problem is getting the programs to the level the wrestling program is now...it could be done with the kids we have in the system now and coming up if it was a priority...but, sadly its not. The problem is thinking that you are bringing the competition down to the level of the program, instead of bringing the program up to the level of the competition...we need to raise the level of the program. I still think the gains are marginal at best...people don't seem to get that...so what you win the BDD every year...which, you won't...but even if you do...say winning the district doesn't give you an automatic bid to the playoffs...then what? schedule 6 other cupcakes...ok you make it to the palyoffs now...then what? You get waxed in the first round 55-0...what have you accomplished? Really? You think the fans won't know what is going on? Come on...you know better. The fans don't want to see you win, they want to see you win and play good football...they want to see you make the playoffs and go to state...you think people will go to Giles from Grundy knowing they have a paper champion who is going to get waxed? I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues Man 48 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I agree with Lance. One other thing that needs to be looked at is the other BDD teams are going to be giving Grundy their best shot in every sport. Hayis, Hurley and Honaker will play them harder just to prove that their better in football and other sports than alot of people give them cerdit for. And you can't forget Twin Valley in basketball it is one to play them non distric and another in distric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I agree with Lance. One other thing that needs to be looked at is the other BDD teams are going to be giving Grundy their best shot in every sport. Hayis, Hurley and Honaker will play them harder just to prove that their better in football and other sports than alot of people give them cerdit for. And you can't forget Twin Valley in basketball it is one to play them non distric and another in distric. TV has had some injuries and a few setbacks this year so far...with everyone healthy they are a much better team...just a frustrating year for them so far...it's not normally like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveFan09 50 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 id like to see a good football team here and there is a whole lot more hope of it at the a level other than aa when grundy started out the year at 4-0 i believe those kids were on top of the world had so much pride then got to swd play and same ole same ole..bottom line Grundy is a WRESTLING school. Thats what the kids are bred to do here, as they are in Richlands to play football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Dawson 10 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Maybe the POY, you hit the nail on the head with all of your "extremely valid" points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrundyWinsAll 10 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I never said dropping is the only change that can be made. I do think it is the only logical thing to do and to say that a team that is as small as Grundy or Graham needs to compete in a higher division to provide fans "a higher level of play" is rediculous. Nobody said hey, we will go single A and the VHSL will crown us state champs in every sport. They are saying that the years of being the smallest, set up against nearly unstoppable obsticles are coming to an end. Work hard get better and win at the single A level. Do you think that everyone is trying to get beat? As for getting beat by Giles in the region finals 55-0, it would beat the heck out of winning vs single A level and then having to compete against teams twice your size. Do I think that "fans" would fall for it? Sure I do. They fell for it this year. There was so many people at the first SWD game that I didn't get to eat concessions. Americans all love a winner and they do not tolerate a loser. Americans love to win all the time. I think this is a way to give everyone a better chance to succeed in their given sport. And Lance, nobody said they can't work on developing their programs further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I never said dropping is the only change that can be made. I do think it is the only logical thing to do and to say that a team that is as small as Grundy or Graham needs to compete in a higher division to provide fans "a higher level of play" is rediculous. Nobody said hey, we will go single A and the VHSL will crown us state champs in every sport. They are saying that the years of being the smallest, set up against nearly unstoppable obsticles are coming to an end. Work hard get better and win at the single A level. Do you think that everyone is trying to get beat? As for getting beat by Giles in the region finals 55-0, it would beat the heck out of winning vs single A level and then having to compete against teams twice your size. Do I think that "fans" would fall for it? Sure I do. They fell for it this year. There was so many people at the first SWD game that I didn't get to eat concessions. Americans all love a winner and they do not tolerate a loser. Americans love to win all the time. I think this is a way to give everyone a better chance to succeed in their given sport. And Lance, nobody said they can't work on developing their programs further. we are still not on the same page here...again, I'm not saying the move to A is bad, or that it shouldn't be done...i'm all for it...I'm saying that in spite of that, it's not going to mean much beyond a district level...people seem to be buying in to this myth that it's going to improve something...it's not...it's really not...this is my point...if you want a better football program, you have to build it...moving down won't give you one, or as you said "crown you state champs"...but, there are a lot of people who seem to be under the impression that when this move is done, we are going to be a better team...and that is just not the case...we are the same team we were before the move...that's where the problem is...if the people of Grundy want a better football or basketball team or whatever team you want to talk about...then that is something that we will have to build...moving down to A level doesn't make you a better team. And you know, I really appreciate your input and your opinions on this stuff...thanks for taking the time to read and reply to all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamPG44 11 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 we are still not on the same page here...again, I'm not saying the move to A is bad, or that it shouldn't be done...i'm all for it...I'm saying that in spite of that, it's not going to mean much beyond a district level...people seem to be buying in to this myth that it's going to improve something...it's not...it's really not...this is my point...if you want a better football program, you have to build it...moving down won't give you one, or as you said "crown you state champs"...but, there are a lot of people who seem to be under the impression that when this move is done, we are going to be a better team...and that is just not the case...we are the same team we were before the move...that's where the problem is...if the people of Grundy want a better football or basketball team or whatever team you want to talk about...then that is something that we will have to build...moving down to A level doesn't make you a better team. And you know, I really appreciate your input and your opinions on this stuff...thanks for taking the time to read and reply to all of this. But it does make the competition more even and fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 But it does make the competition more even and fair! in a sense that you are competing against teams of a likewise enrollemnt...and again for the 50th time, that's not the point of what I'm saying at all...no one is arguing that it's more fair for a school of 500 to play a school of 500 vs. a school of 1000...thats not the point...everyone needs to pack up the BS and move on past that one...the real thing here that I'm trying to get to is that playing a school of 500 vs. the school of 1000 doesn't make your program any better....you still have what you started with. You may have marginal success and win your district if Richlands isn't in it...but you still can't beat the teams that are in A level that beat Richlands! Like Gate City...Lebanon...George Wythe ...those types of schools that have the same types of numbers you have, but have better programs....to beat those teams, you have to build a stronger program...and for some reason, no one wants to seem to realize this or admit it...or even directly address it....and I don't know why? I do know that what I hear from people, and some of it you can see in this very thread...is that by moving down it's going to "level" the playing field...it doesn't....the difference between A ball and AA ball around here is not that great...you have teams like Gate City who beat Richlands...who are one of the best programs in the State at the AA level...there are not many A level schools that can do that year in and year out...but there are a few....why? because they have invested in their football program...built it up...that's what I am saying...and if you do that...it doesn't matter what level you are at...you have success. Once again, good people of Grundy and Graham...dropping to A level doesn't make you a better team...it gives you a district with likewise numbers....that is all...if you want a good football program, you will have to build one....if you do that, you will be good at A or AA level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogs52 484 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 If you build it, it will come.... If not, then transfer to Richlands..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues Man 48 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 If you build it, it will come.... If not, then transfer to Richlands..... Ha Ha Ha very funny Bulldogs52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues Man 48 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 anybody remember this past football season when JI Burton (D-1) beat Abingdon (D-4). It just shows its the program not the div. or level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrb 26 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 anybody remember this past football season when JI Burton (D-1) beat Abingdon (D-4). It just shows its the program not the div. or level. Yea, but your looking at the worst that D-4 has to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 anybody remember this past football season when JI Burton (D-1) beat Abingdon (D-4). It just shows its the program not the div. or level. I was at the game. Yea, but your looking at the worst that D-4 has to offer. that's the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveFan09 50 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 but to me being in the BDD where we actually have a shot of winning the district will make it a lot more fun to watch than watching your alma matter (SP?) get 1 win a year over a kentucky team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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