Ridgeline?

[Hacker 82]

I've seen gas wells in So. KY, OK and in this area. Size wise they aren't big, the rigs coming in and going out can make a mess for sure. On the other hand, those windmills are 400 ft. tall. To get an idea of size, go to a football field sit on the goal line and look at the opposite goal line and that is only 300 feet. These things would be seen from Grant's in Tazewell to Walmart in Bluefield.

[Bear022 10]

UVA I agree 100%. Most of the "money" in Bluefield didn't want the "ugly" windmills in their back yard, so they used their "weight" to get the ordinance voted in. Where did most of that money come from? I beleive coal, which last time I checked there were not a whole lot of coal mines in Bluefield. So, when a land owner in their back yard has a chance to capitalize on his/her property and they don't have a piece of the pie they try to railroad it (no I'm not the landowner). How many cell towers are on East River Mtn? Doesn't matter they made sure the ordinance wouldn't affect their cell coverage.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Lots of people do live here because of the mountains. That's simply a fact.

Some people do leave because of the economy, but a windmill farm isn't going to make a difference. People leave because of the opportunities elsewhere that simply aren't here, and that's not simply a reflection of a tough economy, (the economy is difficult everywhere), but opportunities are always going to be more plentiful elsewhere, regardless of any windfarm or anything else.

 

Evidence of hardships to east river mountain? aside from blasting the sharp ridgeline that east river is to level it off for 60 400 foot structures with a big base, or the huge road up there, as they have had at all windmill sites, for all the oversized heavy equipment and transport of a lot of the windmill parts?

How about all the studies that show all the dead raptors and bats around other windfarms? How about the disappearance of wildlife from miles around other sites?

The windfarm people say it isn't so, what a surprise, the people with a 100 million $ project to sell say their products don't do any harm.

The people of communities who live close to windmills or bought these sells pitches warn people to not only say no to windmills but to say he!! no. The people who live closest to them have problems. What makes anyone think for a second that animals with their much keener senses would ever live close to them, (not that they wouldn't be run off by all the blasting and construction in the first place).

How is this not going to harm wildlife?

Do you know how many coyotes live on east river mountain? Do you know where they'll relocate to after they're run off east river mountain, if you said to the fields and farmlands of lower tazewell county you'd be right.

Of course fortunately tazewell county isn't farm country and people don't make a living with cattle or livestock or that might become a huige problem,,,,oh wait a sec.

Fortunately people don't actually have pets or children or that might become a big problem, oh wait a sec...

That's correct with your guaranteed "harmless" windfarm comes a guaranteed harmless coyote infestation, compliments of the typical human arrogance that thinks there aren't consequences to messing up nature.

How about the much higher number of deer or other animals that are going to be such a increased hazard on 460, worth 12 minimum wage jobs? Correct only 12. but that's me giving them the benefit of the doubt since the windfarm people insisted it would be 12. Don't you think they would say it would be more if it would be more?

The fact is a 40 windmill windfarm in wv had only 5 minimum wage jobs.

The higher paying local jobs you mention are temporary, mostly with loggers during the construction phase. It's 1 of those factual items with a big asterisk beside it used by the salesmen.

The fact is property will be devalued and there's a lot of high $ land along the northern side of east river from bluefield va to tazewell..

10 million sounds big to individuals, but it's not much for a county over a 20 year period.

You suggest 30% is good, would you start a business that was going to be 30% productive, would you invest your $ in any product that was only going to work 30% of the time? Would you buy any product that was going to not work 70 5 of the time?

That 30% is only what the windmills turn at best, that's not much energy produced. Again, if you're sincere about the facts, learn what these companies will make from the government for just building the windfarms.

And do answer since when did people ever pass up having such opportunities for themselves?

Do tell me why they don't put hundreds of windfarms on the coast where they have those consistent strong ocean winds if they really care about productivity?

Listen to what communities that have bought this product have to say about it.

If Americans haven't learned to heed warnings by now, and I don't know any reason I really should think they have, they never will.

It's not all about $s anyhow, some things shouldn't ever be for sell. Windfarms would be selling out.

We might think of only ourselves but we're only here a short time, there's been a lot of people call these mountains home before us and a lot more will after us, the mountains have and will be here much longer, they deserve to be preserved as intended.

I might not believe in god anymore myself, but it's ironic I never read shortage of the majority that do, for what it's worth, to believe in god would be to believe that the mountains were sculpted by his hands and if so, then the mountains of tazewell co would have been some god's best work, (there's a reason burkes garden is called god's thumbprint). People are supposed to be good stewards of the land, and supposedly $ is the root of all evil, that's what the bible says, I'm right sure of it.. Draw conclusions for yourselves.

[mrb 26]

We need to prepare for this countries future not our past. Coal minning has done damage to this earth that will never be repaired, ecological and physical damage. Atleast a windmill can be taken down and if you people don't think there is still a problem with our climate, God help us.

Edited February 4, 2010 by mrb

[GMan 3,569]

UVA I agree 100%. Most of the "money" in Bluefield didn't want the "ugly" windmills in their back yard, so they used their "weight" to get the ordinance voted in. Where did most of that money come from? I beleive coal, which last time I checked there were not a whole lot of coal mines in Bluefield. So, when a land owner in their back yard has a chance to capitalize on his/her property and they don't have a piece of the pie they try to railroad it (no I'm not the landowner). How many cell towers are on East River Mtn? Doesn't matter they made sure the ordinance wouldn't affect their cell coverage.

 

It wasn't just people with "money" that didn't want them...

 

BTW, there is only one cell tower on East River Mountain in Bluefield, VA...above Walmart...

[GMan 3,569]

Atleast a windmill can be taken down and if you people don't think there is still a problem with our climate, God help us.

 

And you'll still have "scared earth"...

 

As for the climate...normal and cyclical...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Lots of people do live here because of the mountains. That's simply a fact.

 

Again, until you can put away this laugher of an argument, you will get nowhere in this debate.

Who gives a rat's a** if 100 people stay here if 10000 of them leave?!

Census data does not lie.

 

Example #1:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/54/54047.html

BTW, that's a 16.9% population drop...

 

Example #2:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/54/54055.html

 

Example #3:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51185.html

 

Example #4:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51167.html

 

Example #5:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51027.html

 

Yeah, people are REALLY staying here because of the scenic beauty, aren't they...

Edited February 4, 2010 by UVAObserver

[BigBlueAlum 12]

...compliments of the typical human arrogance that thinks there aren't consequences to messing up nature.

 

But when it comes to global warming, there is no way humans could have an effect on nature. Typical human arrogance.

 

and supposedly $ is the root of all evil, that's what the bible says, I'm right sure of it.. Draw conclusions for yourselves.

 

Actually, it says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Big difference.

[bhs7695 185]

The "green" movement is all for perserving the land and wildlife. These "green" windmills will have an adverse effect on wildlife in the area where they are built not only scarring the Earth. There are plenty of cases of bats and birds being killed by the turbines.

 

There was an article in one of the Charleston papers last week that windmills would not be moving into an area of West Virginia because of protests about protecting the Indiana Bats that were in the area. That was just one specific, but, as stated earlier, the windfarms would still be doing the damage that coal mining/gas wells have been attacked over for decades.

 

We should all just live by candle power and be done with it.

[deuceswild 15]

UVAObserver... well said. I completely agree with every single point you made and couldn't have said it better myself. Any lucrative opportunity we can get is for the best. Maybe the opportunity can place itself elsewhere in SWVA where an economic foothold is more important than a mountainside photo-op.

[Popeye 32]

This is far from over. BP/Dominion did not approach this with blind faith that the county would welcome them with open arms. What I foresee happening now is a long drawn out legal process that will favor BP/Dom. If this happens, the county and its residents will lose both the ridge lines of east river, and the initial monetary input. Either way it was an ignorant decision by the Board. We have to seek new industry in this area. The argument for coal is really a mute one considering that coal cannot be replaced as an energy source in the near future.

This ordinance is in fact “spot zoning†and I’m sure it will be ruled as such giving BP/Dom more control than they were asking for in the first place. In my opinion, this was a rushed judgment that will come back to haunt this county.

[BigD4VT 11]

UVAObserver... well said. I completely agree with every single point you made and couldn't have said it better myself. Any lucrative opportunity we can get is for the best. Maybe the opportunity can place itself elsewhere in SWVA where an economic foothold is more important than a mountainside photo-op.

Hey, windmills ARE a mountainside photo-op

[deuceswild 15]

Hey, windmills ARE a mountainside photo-op

 

Agreed. I'd totally do it.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Again, until you can put away this laugher of an argument, you will get nowhere in this debate.

Who gives a rat's a** if 100 people stay here if 10000 of them leave?!

Census data does not lie.

 

Example #1:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/54/54047.html

BTW, that's a 16.9% population drop...

 

Example #2:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/54/54055.html

 

Example #3:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51185.html

 

Example #4:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51167.html

 

Example #5:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51027.html

 

Yeah, people are REALLY staying here because of the scenic beauty, aren't they...

 

 

It's a spoken word I hear a lot from people of this area time and time again, post all the stats you care to, that doesn't prove that a lot of people don't live here because of scenic beauty.

If you have a different opinion so be it..

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

But when it comes to global warming, there is no way humans could have an effect on nature. Typical human arrogance.

 

 

 

Actually, it says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Big difference.

 

Melting ice caps and changing "global" climate are a completely different matter than the impact that can be had on a relatively small area of geography, what is this area the windmill farm would use, 10 miles of sharp ridgeline packed with wildlife. Certainly if you're intending to be credible you can recognize there's nothing common about the different concerns.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

They do not remove the windmills mrb, there are many abandoned windfarms. If they put them up they'll be there longer than we'll be here.

 

As for everyone who thinks this is such an economic opportunity, do post exactly where this big flow of prosperity actually comes from, and at least guess at some $ amounts, is it yearly, a 1 time payment, ect...

 

Do defend how devaluing a lot of high $ property along east river is a benefit.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

"Either way it was an ignorant decision by the Board. We have to seek new industry in this area. The argument for coal is really a mute one considering that coal cannot be replaced as an energy source in the near future"

 

Seek industry that works and actually benefits the area though. There's nothing done about coal, it supplies a huge amount of the nations "needs" and there is lots more.

 

Green energy even if doubled (if it were effective at that) throughout the u.s. still leaves just shy of 90% demand that has to be met by coal or nuclear or hydro. It's factually nothing but a feel good drop in the bucket of what the nation must have, a need that's growing fast at that, to make people feel better about being able to say we're trying......

[frito gonzales 103]

You da man Buzzsaw!! The TCBS absolutely did the right thing by not allowing these things on ERM. Hopefully BP/Dom won't take this to Richmond to fight the Ordinance. Anyone who has really studied these things could not support having them on ERM. They need to be in places that are not well populated with houses & schools.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

re familiarize yourself with this local story of the past

 

 

"The Varmint of Burke's Garden was the name given to a coyote that terrorized the community of Burke's Garden, Virginia, in 1952. The animal killed over 400 registered sheep and caused damages in excess of $32,000 before being killed"

 

damages from 1 rouge coyote valued at just over $ 30,000 in 1952 translated to 2010 values, I'd say that $10 million the county would get would be very handy to have sitting around when there's a few hundred rouges relocated to the lower areas and farmers realize who to tell to lawyer up, combined with the occasional lawsuits from when some child gets torn up.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I agree completely frito.

I do think a lot of people have their hearts in the right place wanting something to pick this area up though, but sometimes that's difficult to get over and even in rough times some things are better left undone....

[Popeye 32]

I take a stand of indifference on the wind mills. If they go in they go in and if not that’s fine with me also. I know that either way it has little personal effect on me. The point here is that this small “victory†is based on an ordinance that as mentioned before may have legitimate legal ramifications, thus leaving the county and its citizens at the mercy of a court ruling.

When I have had discussions on the issue of devalued property no one considers that the owners of the land of interest have suffered a loss. Also consider that this ruling may have impacted the desire of other industries to move into our area.

Like many others that live in this region, I cherish our mountains and streams and all that they offer. But I also know that we must balance this with a desire to make our area attractive to business. The benefit of allowing BP/DOM a presence here would have shown other industries that Tazewell County is willing to embrace such.

No one will argue the efficiency of windmills or the energy impact that they would have on this area. I think that those who have made an effort to educate themselves on windmills are in agreement on these subjects.

The big picture is that we have thrown away another opportunity to embrace some industry other than coal.

[mrb 26]

They do not remove the windmills mrb, there are many abandoned windfarms. If they put them up they'll be there longer than we'll be here.

 

As for everyone who thinks this is such an economic opportunity, do post exactly where this big flow of prosperity actually comes from, and at least guess at some $ amounts, is it yearly, a 1 time payment, ect...

 

Do defend how devaluing a lot of high $ property along east river is a benefit.

 

Just how much is a cliff worth these days. Part of my family has 75 acres up there I know what its worth.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

They do not remove the windmills mrb, there are many abandoned windfarms. If they put them up they'll be there longer than we'll be here.

 

As for everyone who thinks this is such an economic opportunity, do post exactly where this big flow of prosperity actually comes from, and at least guess at some $ amounts, is it yearly, a 1 time payment, ect...

 

Do defend how devaluing a lot of high $ property along east river is a benefit.

 

Brother, you're smart. So I know you understand the concept of private property.

 

It doesn't matter if they want to plant silos upside down on their property. It doesn't matter if they want to stack port-a-potties on it 200 feet high. IT'S THEIR PROPERTY! Not yours. Not mine. Not the Board of Supervisors'. Private. Property. And what the Board of Supervisors did was a spit in the face to individual property rights. Not to mention unconstitutional, but I don't see you addressing either of these points.

 

This aside from the fact that the mountaintop property isn't worth jack in the first place. It just looks pretty.

As MRB said above, there's almost NO economic value from it. It's a stinking jagged rock-face with trees.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

It's a spoken word I hear a lot from people of this area time and time again, post all the stats you care to, that doesn't prove that a lot of people don't live here because of scenic beauty.

If you have a different opinion so be it..

 

LOL, you absolutely poo-poo hard statistical evidence. It's not my opinion, it's FACT. Objective fact.

If that's the best that you can do, just admit that you're defeated and move on.

[mrb 26]

Come on man, keep those letters in lower case form. Your going to blow my cover!!!