Tell me Im wrong......

[RichlandsAlum 678]

Richlands was up around 1000 in the early 2000's....they were second largest in the area behind Abingdon at one point...they have the biggest 9th grade class this year they've had in years.

 

Enrollment at Richlands probably hovered near 900 in the early 2000's, which would have made RHS one of the larger schools in Region IV (probably close to Abingdon in terms of enrollment but well behind Carroll County).

 

However, the school hasn't been anywhere near 1,000 students since the early 1990's. And it's significant to note that enrollment at Richlands peaked at 1,300 students circa 1982.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

 

Tell me im wrong.......

If Richlands played in D2 Single A (student body wise they should be) They would have had atleast 4 state championships in the last 7 years.

 

 

Getting back to the poster's original proposition....

 

Not sure that I agree. As good as the Blues have been in the last 7 years, there have been some really talented Division 2 squads statewide within that span. (I'm thinking specifically of Gretna, but there are other potential match-ups in which the Blues may have come up short.)

 

It seems reasonable to think that Richlands will be competitive once they arrive in Division 2, but I don't think that Big Blue supporters should be purchasing December timeshare properties in Salem just yet. Although the geography of Division 2 skews farther west, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between Division 2 and Division 3 (in terms of the competitive nature of each).

[Lance 228]

Enrollment at Richlands probably hovered near 900 in the early 2000's, which would have made RHS one of the larger schools in Region IV (probably close to Abingdon in terms of enrollment but well behind Carroll County).

 

However, the school hasn't been anywhere near 1,000 students since the early 1990's. And it's significant to note that enrollment at Richlands peaked at 1,300 students circa 1982.

 

I remember one VHSL # being 937...i don't know where that 650# came from, that's the first I've heard of that one.

 

I also don't know where the VHSL REF site gets their info? I remember some talk on here of things they had listed that were screwed up, might be fixed now, was a while ago.

 

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, thus the "near 1000"...if its 900 or so then so be it...that's splitting hairs at this point...my point was Richalnds over the past 10 years has not been at a D2 level....it's not even close...why you guys would want to argue about that is beyond me. (not saying you in particular RichlandsAlum)

[RichlandsAlum 678]

I remember one VHSL # being 937...i don't know where that 650# came from, that's the first I've heard of that one.

 

I also don't know where the VHSL REF site gets their info? I remember some talk on here of things they had listed that were screwed up, might be fixed now, was a while ago.

 

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, thus the "near 1000"...if its 900 or so then so be it...that's splitting hairs at this point...my point was Richalnds over the past 10 years has not been at a D2 level....it's not even close...why you guys would want to argue about that is beyond me. (not saying you in particular RichlandsAlum)

 

Gotcha, Lance. Richlands seems to be benefiting (if that's the appropriate term) from changes in statewide demographics that are altering the divisional alignments at local levels. Although any relative advantage in enrollment will be temporary.

 

My observation is that the decline in enrollment at Richlands has been pretty steady since 1982. I'm a bit surprised that RHS dipped under the tape for inclusion in Division 2 quite as soon as it did, but it's been fairly inevitable. The only question at this point is where the number will bottom out.

[UNIONFAN 10]

My numbers on Richlands student ody wasnt exact. It seems that Richlands has been tiddering on the border of D3 AA and D2 A for roughly 5 years is why I made the comment. Either way you look at it, Richlands is either a big D2 or a small D3 and if they were placed in D2 then I feel that the Blues would have won state in at the very least 3 years in the last 5

[Deleted Account 5,203]

My numbers on Richlands student ody wasnt exact. It seems that Richlands has been tiddering on the border of D3 AA and D2 A for roughly 5 years is why I made the comment. Either way you look at it, Richlands is either a big D2 or a small D3 and if they were placed in D2 then I feel that the Blues would have won state in at the very least 3 years in the last 5

 

Actually, Richlands (1) is only a small D3, (2) has only been D4 or D3 within the last decade, and (3) would never have qualified to be a D2 school until it would have been projected to do so under a redistricting guideline that will cease to exist.

 

It is not "either/or". It is definitely one thing and has never been/is not the other.

 

You're trying to play the "I am wrong, so let me revise my previous statement to say exactly what it originally said with different words and hope no one will catch it" game. That offends me, kind sir, and I shan't let you get away with that.

 

As to the crux of the post, it is impossible to prove that Richlands would've won diddly in D2, just as it is impossible for me to predict that Graham would lose to the Virginia Tech Hokies. Is it likely? Almost certainly. But it's a farce to say "prove me wrong" when it's a factual impossibility in the first place.

[UNIONFAN 10]

I feel what you are saying, Richlands is a D3 school and being so we cant say for sure if they would have won anything in D2 except by comparrison. in the past 5 years, the D2 title has been prominatly central va's and not swva's with the exception to gatecity. Durring this time Richlands played for a couple D3 state titles.

My judgment and justification for saying that Richlands would have won 4 state titles in D2 is simply put, last season the blues could have won the D2 class. They had the talent level to beat anyone in D2

The blues game against Turner Ashbey is another season in which the Blues would have won D2 Gatecity's title year of a few seasons ago the Blues could have won and stepping back to Powell Valley's only state game loss the blues could have won that season as well.

Granted it is like comparing apples to oranges but I will make this vow here and now, when the 6A system goes into effect and the Blues will be in the same classification with Gatecity, Union, Lebanon, Central, Dickenson co, ect... the Blues will be a state force that will win state more often than not

[parsons 178]

My numbers on Richlands student ody wasnt exact. It seems that Richlands has been tiddering on the border of D3 AA and D2 A for roughly 5 years is why I made the comment. Either way you look at it, Richlands is either a big D2 or a small D3 and if they were placed in D2 then I feel that the Blues would have won state in at the very least 3 years in the last 5

A simple point that I can agree with…..

You're trying to play the "I am wrong, so let me revise my previous statement to say exactly what it originally said with different words and hope no one will catch it" game. That offends me, kind sir, and I shan't let you get away with that.

…and one that a lawyer feels compelled to twist into something that implies there was deceitful intent .

[Jason 299]

I dont think Richlands would have won 4 state titles the last 7 years in D2. They may not have won the one they got in 06. Goochland beat a really good Giles team that year by 2 tds.

 

Also I dont think Union is better. I think everyone else is worse than last year. SWVA Football is down a lot this year.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

A simple point that I can agree with…..

 

…and one that a lawyer feels compelled to twist into something that implies there was deceitful intent .

 

In case you didn't read the first three pages, here's how the exchange went:

 

UF: Richlands has had D2 numbers and would've won 3 of the last 5 state titles. (Position X)

 

Me + ~5 others: That's not correct. Richlands has never been D2, nor has it ever had the numbers to qualify. (Position Y, which = /X)

 

UF: Well, it's been teetering on the line, so it's either a small D3 or a big D2 (Position Y, and if not, then X).

 

See the inconsistency?

 

UF's retort is a logical fallacy, pure "kettle logic", which is often used by people who make boisterous statements ("tell me I'm wrong"), who are then proven wrong (Richlands was never D2), and want to save face by twisting the correct logic to conform to their original incorrect views (it's either a small D3 or a big D2).

 

Now, if UF's second step would've been something like "you know, I was wrong, but if Richlands was in D2 those years, they would've won the state title 3 of 5 years", all I'd have to go on is that the argument's a non-sequitur. But he didn't. He refused to admit he was wrong, and went a step further by trying to twist the logic to fit a position thoroughly proven wrong.

 

You can insult me all you want to. At the end of the day, I'm right. Even better, you know I'm right. Even better, I've broken down the argument so thoroughly that you can't even argue that I'm wrong.

[Lance 228]

My numbers on Richlands student ody wasnt exact. It seems that Richlands has been tiddering on the border of D3 AA and D2 A for roughly 5 years is why I made the comment. Either way you look at it, Richlands is either a big D2 or a small D3 and if they were placed in D2 then I feel that the Blues would have won state in at the very least 3 years in the last 5

 

Galax reminds me a lot of Cave Spring...I'm not sure that Richlands would match up so well with them in the previous years....same as East Mont when they are on...even George Wythe and Clintwood on a good day could beat the Blues....saying they would have won state if they were D2 is an easy thing to say, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case if the games were actually played.

[parsons 178]

 

You can insult me all you want to. At the end of the day, I'm right. Even better, you know I'm right. Even better, I've broken down the argument so thoroughly that you can't even argue that I'm wrong.

 

I've read this thread from post number one and all I see is everyone making a mountain out of a molehill.

Okay, so Richlands didn't have single A numbers the last seven years, but they've been darn close to them. If I'm not mistaken, there are some schools like Goochland who have similar student enrollment (over 750 students) and yet have been playing single A for years. Unionfan amended his position slightly after 3 pages of hearing that his numbers were in error, and then made a reasonable supposition that I agree with.....and then you took him to task and I thought you were being a bit anal....

As for insulting you, well, that was not my intent. I actually thought some folks may get a chuckle out of it....

[ghs73 157]

I've read this thread from post number one and all I see is everyone making a mountain out of a molehill.

Okay, so Richlands didn't have single A numbers the last seven years, but they've been darn close to them. If I'm not mistaken, there are some schools like Goochland who have similar student enrollment (over 750 students) and yet have been playing single A for years. Unionfan amended his position slightly after 3 pages of hearing that his numbers were in error, and then made a reasonable supposition that I agree with.....and then you took him to task and I thought you were being a bit anal....

As for insulting you, well, that was not my intent. I actually thought some folks may get a chuckle out of it....

 

the entire thread is just conjecture, we can say that in any given season a team could have won a state title in another division but we will never know because in the end they did not play in single a the past years. i think it is time to stop this thread, it has run its course.

[ba961 24]

I don't think you can say you broke it to where you can not argue the point what I said is that as of even last yr there are 7 d2 school with more kids than richlands some have been d2 for a while and then when the blues beat the d2 champ or runner up badly or worse than what the champ did I think they would have more than two titles. It will help in a lot of ways once everyone around here is classified in the same class Graham gate city union rhs lee high it will be nice to see what happens it makes this area a little stronger I think

[Nadoball 18]

People think just b/c the Blues are dropping that means a STATE run every year. Its just not going to happen. At some point you will have a rebuilding year or just alittle bit less of talent. Case in point this year, the Blues are young, solid football team but not like the up by 40 points at halftime team.

 

You can't go 14-0 year in and year out.

[VHSLhelper 571]

hard to be close to D2 7 years ago when the Blues were D4 8 years ago.

My 1st year back at GTH was '04 - we played Magna Vista in the playoffs, while Grundy got jabbed by Va. High.

(And, yes, I know that 2 or 3 of the D3 teams shoulda been in D2, but still...)

[redtiger 1,741]

And if current D1/D2 rules were in place Haysi/Clintwood/Honaker would have won 7-10 D1 state titles since '91

 

its all just speculation

Edited September 5, 2012 by redtiger

[trumpet1988 289]

And if current D1/D2 rules were in place Haysi/Clintwood/Honaker would have won 7-10 D1 state titles since '91

 

its all just speculation

I don't know about that. Some of the Appalachia teams from the 1990s were something else. Haysi, Clintwood, and Honaker MIGHT have won just a few trophies.

 

If they had escaped playing the Powell Valleys of the 1990s by being bumped down to D1, then they would likely still have had to face some of the Appalachia teams with guys like Travis Turner and Travis Clark. It probably wouldn't have made a very big difference most seasons.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Gate City (as a D3 school in the 90s) actually have D2 numbers? If I'm right then some seasons, they could have gotten a second shot against some of the Powell Valley teams.

[trumpet1988 289]

People think just b/c the Blues are dropping that means a STATE run every year. Its just not going to happen. At some point you will have a rebuilding year or just alittle bit less of talent. Case in point this year, the Blues are young, solid football team but not like the up by 40 points at halftime team.

 

You can't go 14-0 year in and year out.

Gate City didn't do it every year once they became D2.

[Jason 299]

I feel what you are saying, Richlands is a D3 school and being so we cant say for sure if they would have won anything in D2 except by comparrison. in the past 5 years, the D2 title has been prominatly central va's and not swva's with the exception to gatecity. Durring this time Richlands played for a couple D3 state titles.

My judgment and justification for saying that Richlands would have won 4 state titles in D2 is simply put, last season the blues could have won the D2 class. They had the talent level to beat anyone in D2

The blues game against Turner Ashbey is another season in which the Blues would have won D2 Gatecity's title year of a few seasons ago the Blues could have won and stepping back to Powell Valley's only state game loss the blues could have won that season as well.

Granted it is like comparing apples to oranges but I will make this vow here and now, when the 6A system goes into effect and the Blues will be in the same classification with Gatecity, Union, Lebanon, Central, Dickenson co, ect... the Blues will be a state force that will win state more often than not

 

Gate City beat Richlands in 04 and lost to State Runnerup PV twice. So Richlands would have had a tough time winning it then too. Richlands being in D2 would not mean automatic State Titles. They would still have to beat the likes of Gretna, Goochland, Gate City, Union, Giles, Essex, Riverheads, and so on and on. There have been a lot of years that the D2 champ could beat the D3 champ. Heck in 97 the D1 and D2 champs easily beat the D3 champ. There are some dang good teams in D2.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Gate City beat Richlands in 04 and lost to State Runnerup PV twice. So Richlands would have had a tough time winning it then too. Richlands being in D2 would not mean automatic State Titles. They would still have to beat the likes of Gretna, Goochland, Gate City, Union, Giles, Essex, Riverheads, and so on and on. There have been a lot of years that the D2 champ could beat the D3 champ. Heck in 97 the D1 and D2 champs easily beat the D3 champ. There are some dang good teams in D2.

 

This is truth. The divide between D2 and D3 in the last decade was really very slim.

[Jason 299]

Also I saw where someone said Goochland had been in D2 for years and some of those years with D3 numbers. Actually Goochland just dropped back to D2 last year after being in D3 the 2 to 4 years prior.

[cityofRaven 2,449]

This is truth. The divide between D2 and D3 in the last decade was really very slim.

 

This.

[parsons 178]

hard to be close to D2 7 years ago when the Blues were D4 8 years ago.

(And, yes, I know that 2 or 3 of the D3 teams shoulda been in D2, but still...)

 

According to VHSL reference...... Richlands had an enrollment of 795 students 7 years ago and 815 their final year at D4.

[parsons 178]

Also I saw where someone said Goochland had been in D2 for years and some of those years with D3 numbers. Actually Goochland just dropped back to D2 last year after being in D3 the 2 to 4 years prior.

 

You are correct in that Goochland played at the D3 level in 2009 and 2010....but they did have a higher enrollment (782) than Richlands (776) in 2008 and played a division lower. Goochland was also playing at the D2 level in 2006 with an enrollment of 770 and William Monroe is currently playing D2 with an enrollment of 770.