GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] The rule was put in back in the 70's when Carolina was big on stalling and scores were 19-17 or lower. Pocahontas did this before the rule in the 50's and still is the state record for the lowest scoring game 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. This rule has never been inforced in any game I've ever watched...high school or college. This rule wasn't created because of UNC's four corners...the Four Corners ushered in the shot clock era of college basketball. There is not shot clock in high school basketball, and if this rule even exists, it is never utilized. As a matter of fact, in most blow out games the officials are more than happy to let the team with the lead hold the ball and run the clock to get the game over with faster. Honestly, tell me when you've seen an official call a technical on a team that was getting beat for not "forcing the issue"...NEVER... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olewave 44 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I guess you need to go see more basketball then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEAVERTAIL Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Honestly, I am an official. You may already know this, and it is my first year. My father is also an offical, and many of his friends. Ive talked to a few of them and NONE of them have ever seen the rule used... why? Because of sportsmanship. Why would officals make a team attack the basket? that would only lead to more scoring and a bigger blowout. As officials, honestly you do not want to see that. Same as if a team is down by a whole lot, you do not call ticky tack fouls on the losing team. Its called managing the game. but honestly, why would any team that was down, not defend he ball? It makes no sense. I never have seen an offical call this before and probably never will, it seems to be a pointless rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTom33 10 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 ive watched a many of basketball games over the years and played in many as well, some of which we were getting blown out (i did play for graham ya know lol)... but not once have i ever seen this rule put into use when quite a few times it could of been but wasn't... last year when we played hurley and was beating them by around 20 at the end of the game i personally dribbled around wasting time and wasted quite a few mins just dribbling around or passing back and forth until they fouled, the rule wasn't enforced then either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdowndive 10 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 You were not standing at half court holding the ball either. By dribbling, you were forcing some type of action. It is kind of like 3 seconds, never called unless you are in the lane for 10 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] You were not standing at half court holding the ball either. By dribbling, you were forcing some type of action. It is kind of like 3 seconds, never called unless you are in the lane for 10 seconds. [/ QUOTE ] Dribbling is not "forcing some type of action" if all you are doing is standing at midcourt bouncing the ball. Besides, according to the rule that you all say exists, the defense would be the team that would have to "force the action", not the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futbolking 766 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You were not standing at half court holding the ball either. By dribbling, you were forcing some type of action. It is kind of like 3 seconds, never called unless you are in the lane for 10 seconds. [/ QUOTE ] Dribbling is not "forcing some type of action" if all you are doing is standing at midcourt bouncing the ball. Besides, according to the rule that you all say exists, the defense would be the team that would have to "force the action", not the offense. [/ QUOTE ] Some folks just want something to argue about. Fact is...they "Blew" a 27 point lead in the 4th quarter...gotta point at the coach for that. Grundy may have played well...but they never should've had that many chances to score in the quarter...heck, you can waste 10 seconds getting to the half court line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six4three 10 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The rule was put in back in the 70's when Carolina was big on stalling and scores were 19-17 or lower. Pocahontas did this before the rule in the 50's and still is the state record for the lowest scoring game 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. This rule has never been inforced in any game I've ever watched...high school or college. This rule wasn't created because of UNC's four corners...the Four Corners ushered in the shot clock era of college basketball. There is not shot clock in high school basketball, and if this rule even exists, it is never utilized. As a matter of fact, in most blow out games the officials are more than happy to let the team with the lead hold the ball and run the clock to get the game over with faster. Honestly, tell me when you've seen an official call a technical on a team that was getting beat for not "forcing the issue"...NEVER... [/ QUOTE ] you are wrong on this one g-man. there was a rule a few years back that prevented stalling. it was a national federation rule. the team behind had to "force the action" so to speak when the referee gave the signal to. the rule is not in effect now. ask a veteran official, they will tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMoney55 11 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I will go with Tail on anything he says about offciating. he is an official himself and so is his daddy so I think anything he says has more leverage than those who argue him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEAVERTAIL Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 my dad said it was a rule, but not exactly how i read it off to him on the website. He was in a meeting and couldnt talk. Im sure we will talk about it later and Ill let you know the whole rule. BTW, if the interpreter to our board would give me my rulebook and case book i would have the info now. anywho... My dad and I agree on this, any offical who calls that technical foul is a moron. If a team is content with losing why not let it lose? its a confusing and pointless rule to say the least. I mean if a team wants hold the ball all the defense has to do is be in a defensive position 6 feet away from him... then wait 5 seconds lol... not stay back and wait for a technical. thats stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The rule was put in back in the 70's when Carolina was big on stalling and scores were 19-17 or lower. Pocahontas did this before the rule in the 50's and still is the state record for the lowest scoring game 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. This rule has never been inforced in any game I've ever watched...high school or college. This rule wasn't created because of UNC's four corners...the Four Corners ushered in the shot clock era of college basketball. There is not shot clock in high school basketball, and if this rule even exists, it is never utilized. As a matter of fact, in most blow out games the officials are more than happy to let the team with the lead hold the ball and run the clock to get the game over with faster. Honestly, tell me when you've seen an official call a technical on a team that was getting beat for not "forcing the issue"...NEVER... [/ QUOTE ] you are wrong on this one g-man. there was a rule a few years back that prevented stalling. it was a national federation rule. the team behind had to "force the action" so to speak when the referee gave the signal to. the rule is not in effect now. ask a veteran official, they will tell you. [/ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHS06 10 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 [ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... [/ QUOTE ] Aw come on, our JV teams were competitive, but not because of him. I played for him my 9th and 10th grade years, and then quit because he got the head coaching job. The biggest problem Coach Carlock has is that he doesn't know his personnel. I can think of one instance when Carlock kept playing a player at point guard, even though everyone knew the kid was a shooting guard, and a fantastic shooting guard at that. When someone else played point, the kid lit it up, but Carlock insisted he play point and threw him off his rhythm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six4three 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The rule was put in back in the 70's when Carolina was big on stalling and scores were 19-17 or lower. Pocahontas did this before the rule in the 50's and still is the state record for the lowest scoring game 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. This rule has never been inforced in any game I've ever watched...high school or college. This rule wasn't created because of UNC's four corners...the Four Corners ushered in the shot clock era of college basketball. There is not shot clock in high school basketball, and if this rule even exists, it is never utilized. As a matter of fact, in most blow out games the officials are more than happy to let the team with the lead hold the ball and run the clock to get the game over with faster. Honestly, tell me when you've seen an official call a technical on a team that was getting beat for not "forcing the issue"...NEVER... [/ QUOTE ] you are wrong on this one g-man. there was a rule a few years back that prevented stalling. it was a national federation rule. the team behind had to "force the action" so to speak when the referee gave the signal to. the rule is not in effect now. ask a veteran official, they will tell you. [/ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... [/ QUOTE ] it was enforced when it was put in. i don't remember the exact rule but let's say the offense was holding the ball with the lead trying to force the defense out of a zone defense, and the defense just sat back and didn't come out to guard the stalling team....after so many seconds, the ref would signal to the defense to play....they then had to come out to a closely guarded situation within 5 seconds, if not it was a technical on the defense. another example......offensive team is behind, defense is in zone....offense pulls ball out to hold it near half-court trying to get the defense to play them man-to-man......the offense then has the responsibility to force the action.....ref would count 5, signal the offense to attack, and if they didn't within 5 seconds it was a technical on the offense. to clarify things......if you had the lead and the ball, you did not have to force the tempo....it was up to the team that was trailing to force the tempo.. this rule was not put in to stop 4 corner offenses.....it was put in to keep a team that was behind from stalling by either not playing defense or holding the ball. if you were the team that was in the lead and the other team didn't come out of a packed in zone to guard you, then why would force the issue and have to play their game and shoot from the outside....you wouldn't, you would have held the ball and if the other coach was stubborn he may have stayed back in the zone until the quarter ended.......really boring for fans. the average fan may not have even known the rule existed because there weren't very many technicals issued....usually if the referee told the trailing team to play, then they complied and that was the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 You guys are killing me. Is there someone else that teaches in Tazewell Co. that you guys want to coach at Graham? PLEASE name that person. There are no basketball coaches at Graham High. They are all football coaches. I really don't think he actually would have taken the job if there had been someone there that would have been qualified to do it when Jones left. He's doing what he thinks is best and maybe it's not working but until guys start playing in the off season and not just when November comes then they are going to continue to lose. IF you guys want another coach find one and I'm sure he'll step down if he andthe administration feels that is what is best. Lighten up a little bit and maybe try to help the situation especially if you are form Graham. I have pride in the school but unfortunately I don't live there anymore so I can't possibly help to much. I get on here just to see what is going on back home and all this negative sh*t is what I see. Teach your kids the game before they get to high school. The middle school only plays about 7 games so that's not helping. With all these geniuses on here I'm sure you guys could put your heads together and come up with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The rule was put in back in the 70's when Carolina was big on stalling and scores were 19-17 or lower. Pocahontas did this before the rule in the 50's and still is the state record for the lowest scoring game 2-1. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. This rule has never been inforced in any game I've ever watched...high school or college. This rule wasn't created because of UNC's four corners...the Four Corners ushered in the shot clock era of college basketball. There is not shot clock in high school basketball, and if this rule even exists, it is never utilized. As a matter of fact, in most blow out games the officials are more than happy to let the team with the lead hold the ball and run the clock to get the game over with faster. Honestly, tell me when you've seen an official call a technical on a team that was getting beat for not "forcing the issue"...NEVER... [/ QUOTE ] you are wrong on this one g-man. there was a rule a few years back that prevented stalling. it was a national federation rule. the team behind had to "force the action" so to speak when the referee gave the signal to. the rule is not in effect now. ask a veteran official, they will tell you. [/ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... [/ QUOTE ] it was enforced when it was put in. i don't remember the exact rule but let's say the offense was holding the ball with the lead trying to force the defense out of a zone defense, and the defense just sat back and didn't come out to guard the stalling team....after so many seconds, the ref would signal to the defense to play....they then had to come out to a closely guarded situation within 5 seconds, if not it was a technical on the defense. another example......offensive team is behind, defense is in zone....offense pulls ball out to hold it near half-court trying to get the defense to play them man-to-man......the offense then has the responsibility to force the action.....ref would count 5, signal the offense to attack, and if they didn't within 5 seconds it was a technical on the offense. to clarify things......if you had the lead and the ball, you did not have to force the tempo....it was up to the team that was trailing to force the tempo.. this rule was not put in to stop 4 corner offenses.....it was put in to keep a team that was behind from stalling by either not playing defense or holding the ball. if you were the team that was in the lead and the other team didn't come out of a packed in zone to guard you, then why would force the issue and have to play their game and shoot from the outside....you wouldn't, you would have held the ball and if the other coach was stubborn he may have stayed back in the zone until the quarter ended.......really boring for fans. the average fan may not have even known the rule existed because there weren't very many technicals issued....usually if the referee told the trailing team to play, then they complied and that was the end of it. [/ QUOTE ] I understand your examples BUT did you ever see it actually happen in a game where the officials called a technical on one team or the other for stalling??? NO. The rule was never enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] There are no basketball coaches at Graham High. [/ QUOTE ] Its only January of 2008 but THAT is the UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR!!! Congratulations on such a fine effort!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olewave 44 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I have seen it happen a few times, and seen the team warned many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 You know exactly what I meant. But if you didn't let me clarify it. Of the teachers that teach at Graham High and Graham Middle none of them would even attempt to coach nor would they be good at it. As of now Carlock is the best choice. We just have to live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEAVERTAIL Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Yes, if not the official would have made them, since they were behind. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what????? yeah since when is that a rule??? oh you are getting killed...go get the ball...the refs will never tell players they have to go get the ball..if they wanna take the loss and let the other team hold the ball...they will let them... Beavertail and Beano that constitutes a technical foul. From the NFHS basketball rule book. Rule 10 Section 1 Article 5 A team shall not allow the game to develop into an actionless contest: Penalty Technical Foul. If the leading team holds the ball and the trailing team does not come out to defend they will be warned first and then accessed a technical foul. If the trailing team holds the ball and fails to attack they will be warned first and then accessed a technical foul. This rule was instituted so that we dont have anymore 2-1 games. [/ QUOTE ] here is the REAL Article 5. According to Article 5 in the NFHS rule book, there is a penalty for having an actionless game. HOWEVER, these actions that constitute a technical foul: A. when the clock is not running, consuming a full minute by not being ready by not being on the floor, B. delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or to being put in play, C. contact with the freethrower or a huddle of 2 or more players by either team prior to a freethrow following any team warning for delay, D. interfering with the ball after a goal after any warning for team delay, E. not having the court ready for play following any timeout following any warning for team delay. There is no rule about defending anyone trailing/leading anything like that. this is THE_TRUTH so the_truth seems like you were wrong. I dont know where you got your information, but it is incorrect. This is the 2007/2008 rulebook by NFHS given to every offical in their packet at the beginning of the year. But im glad you posted the false rule. May want to get a new rulebook buddy... and for those who said me and beano dont know the game, well this proves no rule as such exists. Seems like the younger guys win again. shocker. and getmoney, thanks for the support, i was positive there was no rule about the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMoney55 11 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 you know you have my support baby. you just look so good in those stripes..running up and down the court. mmhmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghsfan07 11 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... [/ QUOTE ] Aw come on, our JV teams were competitive, but not because of him. I played for him my 9th and 10th grade years, and then quit because he got the head coaching job. The biggest problem Coach Carlock has is that he doesn't know his personnel. I can think of one instance when Carlock kept playing a player at point guard, even though everyone knew the kid was a shooting guard, and a fantastic shooting guard at that. When someone else played point, the kid lit it up, but Carlock insisted he play point and threw him off his rhythm. [/ QUOTE ] Hoosier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTom33 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But even still, when it was on the book, did you ever see it or hear of it actually being enforced??? Obviously, if the rule is no longer in effect, there has to be a reason why...never used, maybe??? Anyway this is getting away from the whole topic of this discussion which is the coaching, or lack thereof, for the Graham High School basketball team. All Graham fans have seen this going on for years with Coach Carlock's teams, not just the recent varsity squads, but the JV teams he coached under Coach Jones. Those teams were never competitive and when they had an opportunity to win, it was often squandered by a lack of guidance from the sidelines. As I've said before, this isn't just my opinion, its one I've heard from many of the Graham faithful and outsiders as well. I have nothing against Coach Carlock, he is a great person and a very knowledgable football coach. But a basketball coach...he isn't... [/ QUOTE ] Aw come on, our JV teams were competitive, but not because of him. I played for him my 9th and 10th grade years, and then quit because he got the head coaching job. The biggest problem Coach Carlock has is that he doesn't know his personnel. I can think of one instance when Carlock kept playing a player at point guard, even though everyone knew the kid was a shooting guard, and a fantastic shooting guard at that. When someone else played point, the kid lit it up, but Carlock insisted he play point and threw him off his rhythm. [/ QUOTE ] well said... hes done this many times with playing people out of position, ive always been a guard and they made me play post until my senior year, which helped me for in college cause i box out and understand the position better, but i know a few ppl that were played out of position through there 4 years at graham... its not all coaching that graham is losing, but they have the talent year in and year out to at least be a team that finishes .500 or close to it and i think "most" of you all will agree with me on that... last year we started off playing 5 hard games, pulaski twice, bluefield, bassett, twin valley 3 on the road... we were competetive in most games until late (not countin the first 5 games i just mentioned) we were close with grundy, carroll, tazewell, richlands in almost every game last year until the last few mins, we were leading grundy at grundy last year going into the 4th (i have the game tape at my house and have watched it quite a few times thinkin what happened) but i noticed we made them play a half court offense the whole game then the 4th quarter let them get into there running fast tempo offense and beat us by around 20 just in the 4th, i didnt get to see the game this year but it sounds to me the same thing happened... but with the teams graham played this year starting off with a bunch of single A teams they should be over .500 in my opinion, but carlock doesn't lose all the games... even tho i think a coach should take credit no matter what, espically in the paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghman 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 This is my first post and just my opinion. Carlock does not give his players any encouragement he blames everything on them. his younger (10th grade) players have all played travel ball together and have won a lot of games. There is plenty of talent there if they are properly coached and encourged. He does not know the game well enough to coach effectively, he subs the wrong players at the wrong times, he plays his players out of position. He is a nice guy, he just needs to realize he is not a basketball coach. Just my thoughts........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCRAM55 11 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Who are you‘ll going to get to replace him?(Coach Carlock) I don’t see Bobby Knight, Coach K, Tom Rife or even Fred Phillips wanting to come take this job. The best thing you can do is get a young coach fresh out of college who has played the game to come be the JV coach for a couple of years and then turn the program over to him. Graham G-Girls got in trouble a few year ago when they turn over their program to Kelly Grahman and look how bad that went. You need somebody that has played the game at the college level and that the players can respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornholio 10 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Maybe his players should listen to him> They were up big and he was telling them to slow and they kept running and gunning. His players are just hard headed and uncoachable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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