dawgs86 10 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Cave Spring(5-2) - 24.286 Richlands (7-0) ----23.714 Grundy(7-0) -------23.714 Martinsville(3-5) ---17.875 Marion(3-4) -------16 Tunstall(3-5) ------14.375 Graham(1-6) ------13.143 Patrick Co.(0-7) ---10.571 Tazewell(0-8)------10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canes00 434 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Richlands and Grundy's schedule hurts them from being 1st at this point I know there is not much you can do about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghos88t 68 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Getting points for losing, I just don't agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper1 10 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 well, it lets there be a distinction between losing to salem and losing to abingdon, and it's hard to argue with that logic, if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 thing is...this is just the way its working out the last few years...if you had a bunch of good teams from div 3 in the swd and they all were close in points and one didn't make it because they only took the top 4 or whatever, then everyone would complain...the bye week gives the top two a reward and lets the lowers fight it out...i dont see the big problem with it...just happens to be BAD at the bottom this year...could very well be different in any given year. Grundy was 5-5 last year and it was a good thing for the kids and the team...and even the town...to make the playoffs for a change...don't forget this is all about the kids and it's nice for them to have a legit shot at the playoffs...even if it's only one and out...gives them something to build on and be proud of. now...1-9 team...maybe not so much...but, it is what it is and that sort of thing might happen when 6 or 8 or 10 teams will make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu_bean 1,058 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 thing is...this is just the way its working out the last few years...if you had a bunch of good teams from div 3 in the swd and they all were close in points and one didn't make it because they only took the top 4 or whatever, then everyone would complain...the bye week gives the top two a reward and lets the lowers fight it out...i dont see the big problem with it...just happens to be BAD at the bottom this year...could very well be different in any given year. Grundy was 5-5 last year and it was a good thing for the kids and the team...and even the town...to make the playoffs for a change...don't forget this is all about the kids and it's nice for them to have a legit shot at the playoffs...even if it's only one and out...gives them something to build on and be proud of. now...1-9 team...maybe not so much...but, it is what it is and that sort of thing might happen when 6 or 8 or 10 teams will make the playoffs. I won't debate you in the least as I agree, however what would you say if 9-1 Grundy plays Tunstall at 3-7 and should happen to lose? I know its all part of the playoffs and anything could happen and if a major upset occurs that's just part of it but at the same time I think it takes away from the playoffs. It just doesnt mean as much to make it to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadoball 18 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Getting to play in the playoffs should be a reward, thats what you have busted your tail all year for. Thats whats wrong with society today, people get rewarded for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gym 10 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 well, it lets there be a distinction between losing to salem and losing to abingdon, and it's hard to argue with that logic, if you ask me. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I won't debate you in the least as I agree, however what would you say if 9-1 Grundy plays Tunstall at 3-7 and should happen to lose? I know its all part of the playoffs and anything could happen and if a major upset occurs that's just part of it but at the same time I think it takes away from the playoffs. It just doesnt mean as much to make it to the playoffs. in 2004 Grundy (8-2) was beaten by a 3-7 or 4-6 (dont remember which) Va High team in the playoffs...the only problem I had with it was that it wasn't a clean game at all...as long as its a legit loss, then the better team that night won...upsets will happen. Getting to play in the playoffs should be a reward, thats what you have busted your tail all year for. Thats whats wrong with society today, people get rewarded for nothing. again, you could easily have a bunch of teams at 8-2 or so...just happens to be down right now so a couple of teams will make it in with a bad record. Not so long ago a there were a couple of 8-2 and 9-1 teams that didn't make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 in 2004 Grundy (8-2) was beaten by a 3-7 or 4-6 (dont remember which) Va High team in the playoffs...the only problem I had with it was that it wasn't a clean game at all...as long as its a legit loss, then the better team that night won...upsets will happen. 4-6, IIRC. It was the year VHS beat Battle, their district opponents, and no one else. It's amazing how poor the Highlands was for as long as it was... again, you could easily have a bunch of teams at 8-2 or so...just happens to be down right now so a couple of teams will make it in with a bad record. Not so long ago a there were a couple of 8-2 and 9-1 teams that didn't make it. But this scenario never happened in AA, which is where the playoff expansion occurred. That's the big issue I've had with it: the only year I can remember a team deserving of the playoffs to get shafted was '97 Graham, who missed the playoffs at 7-3 because Magna Vista "intentionally" tanked its last game to let a fellow district team sneak in. Other than that, losing teams have been sneaking into the R4D3 playoffs for quite some time, even before the expansion. In '01, a 3-7 Laurel Park team got in as the #4-seed, and Graham did everything short of slaughter them. Perfect example of the powers that be seeing a problem and making the wrong fix in the wrong place... The 8-2/9-1 teams missing the playoffs happened in D2. Wasn't it a 9-1 George Wythe that missed the playoffs in 2004 because another school won its district at 5-5? Allowed just 20 points in the 9 games it won, and had to sit home. This is why I would advocate the VHSL adopting the WV playoff format. Makes it more fun to play teams you'd seldom ever play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuceswild 15 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 The 8-2/9-1 teams missing the playoffs happened in D2. Wasn't it a 9-1 George Wythe that missed the playoffs in 2004 because another school won its district at 5-5? Allowed just 20 points in the 9 games it won, and had to sit home. This is why I would advocate the VHSL adopting the WV playoff format. Makes it more fun to play teams you'd seldom ever play. Close. George Wythe lost to Lebanon that year who was also 9-1 and won the district and finished 10-2. I never agreed with 6 teams making the playoffs in any other area of the state except for Region C Division 2. But I realize, if you make the change somewhere, you have to make it everywhere..most of the time. Year in and year out there are 7-8 teams bidding for those first four spots in Reg.C, D2 and more often than not, very deserving teams get left at home. You can argue that is part of it but its really hard to make that argument with George Wythe missing out in 2004 and Chilhowie in 2007 to teams they were clearly superior than. Division 1 in Region C could usually get by with 2 teams per year. If every division was like Region C Division 2's, then things would be different. Look at it this year, there are literally almost 9 teams worthy of those 6 spots! Radford, Floyd, George Wythe, Glenvar, Giles, Chilhowie, Fort Chiswell, James River, and Grayson have all beaten one another at some point during the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu_bean 1,058 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 again, you could easily have a bunch of teams at 8-2 or so...just happens to be down right now so a couple of teams will make it in with a bad record. Not so long ago a there were a couple of 8-2 and 9-1 teams that didn't make it. But at the same time shouldn't the teams that had to work harder playing the more difficult schedule be rewarded? I'm not singling out anyone here, but if all you do is roll over 1A schools, should that be rewarded over going through schools such as Cave Spring or Christiansburg. We can laugh and point at Graham all we want but I do give kudos to them on having a very tough schedule. Same can be said for the BCS but that's another can of worms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanFan 21 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 In reality, Graham's schedule outside the district isn't close to what it was in the past with the likes of Gretna, Blacksburg, Christiansburg, Greenville(TN), GW-Danville, etc. It has gotten alot softer the past two years. I don't see how you can give them credit for playing a tougher schedule. The only mainstay has been Bluefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 But at the same time shouldn't the teams that had to work harder playing the more difficult schedule be rewarded? I'm not singling out anyone here, but if all you do is roll over 1A schools, should that be rewarded over going through schools such as Cave Spring or Christiansburg. We can laugh and point at Graham all we want but I do give kudos to them on having a very tough schedule. Same can be said for the BCS but that's another can of worms... it doesnt really matter as i see it...the teams that dont belong will normally get beat anyway...its an extra game for the kids and the fans...so who really cares? I'd rather see it as it is now than run the risk of seeing a good team sit home...if they had more teams in there it would help, but even then you are going to run the risk of a lower team getting in. I like it better than just matching up the district champs and going the old route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogs52 484 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Honaker went 9-1 a few years ago and missed the playoffs because they didn't win the district! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Honaker went 9-1 a few years ago and missed the playoffs because they didn't win the district! thats what i'm saying...i'd rather see Richalnds blow out Graham vs. a 9-1 team not making it...no harm in 6 teams making it if that is what it takes to avoid that type of situation....or at least thats my opinion. If Richlands went 9-1 and didn't make it, I'm sure some others here might change the way they feel...although I'm sure they will net thug it up and say they wouldn't and if they lost a game they didn't deserve to go and blah blah blah...i know better...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhstigerfan 12 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Honaker went 9-1 a few years ago and missed the playoffs because they didn't win the district! Honaker had a good team that year, but IMO they did not deserve to make the playoffs that year because they did not win the BDD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 thats what i'm saying...i'd rather see Richalnds blow out Graham vs. a 9-1 team not making it...no harm in 6 teams making it if that is what it takes to avoid that type of situation....or at least thats my opinion. If Richlands went 9-1 and didn't make it, I'm sure some others here might change the way they feel...although I'm sure they will net thug it up and say they wouldn't and if they lost a game they didn't deserve to go and blah blah blah...i know better...lol. You got that right! Any 9-1 team should make it to the playoffs, and the system that keeps them out is flawed to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 In reality, Graham's schedule outside the district isn't close to what it was in the past with the likes of Gretna, Blacksburg, Christiansburg, Greenville(TN), GW-Danville, etc. It has gotten alot softer the past two years. I don't see how you can give them credit for playing a tougher schedule. The only mainstay has been Bluefield. Graham has never played Gretna during the regular season...however, you forgot to include Martinsville, Woodrow Wilson, Patrick Henry-Roanoke, Elizabethton, Tennessee High, Salem, Lee (early 90s - they were tough), Radford (AA), Gate City (AA) and Mount View (yes, they were pretty good back in the late 90s) on your list of formiddable non-district, regular-season opponents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 You got that right! Any 9-1 team should make it to the playoffs, and the system that keeps them out is flawed to say the least. Completely agreed, but I think that there's a better method than just blindly letting 6 teams in. For example, if there are 10 or less teams in a Region and Division, use 4 teams. If there are 11 or more teams in a Region and Division, use 6 teams. Bada bing, bada boom: problem solved (and solved without soiling the integrity of the playoffs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olewave 44 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Graham has never played Gretna during the regular season...however, you forgot to include Martinsville, Woodrow Wilson, Patrick Henry-Roanoke, Elizabethton, Tennessee High, Salem, Lee (early 90s - they were tough), Radford (AA), Gate City (AA) and Mount View (yes, they were pretty good back in the late 90s) on your list of formiddable non-district, regular-season opponents... Played Gretna two years ago at Mitchell Stadium during regular season on a saturday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu_bean 1,058 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Played Gretna two years ago at Mitchell Stadium during regular season on a saturday afternoon. They still play a harder schedule than others in the area. We play some tough opposition but compared to the higher caliber schools such as Cave Spring, Bluefield, Blacksburg, or Christiansburg 5-5 against their schedule would be more impressive than say a 7-3 of Abingdon's schedule. Like anything nobody is going to be completely happy no matter which way they go with it. I agree with Lance on his point but an arguement can be made either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Played Gretna two years ago at Mitchell Stadium during regular season on a saturday afternoon. I guess that shows how memorable the last few seasons at Graham have been...:o... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanFan 21 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Trust me, I was there. It was a beatdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper 571 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) But this scenario never happened in AA, which is where the playoff expansion occurred. That's the big issue I've had with it: The 8-2/9-1 teams missing the playoffs happened in D2. Wasn't it a 9-1 George Wythe that missed the playoffs in 2004 because another school won its district at 5-5? Allowed just 20 points in the 9 games it won, and had to sit home. This is why I would advocate the VHSL adopting the WV playoff format. Makes it more fun to play teams you'd seldom ever play. The playoff expansion didn't happen in AA... it happened for everyone, but not everyone has taken advantage of it. Can't think of any AA teams that missed out at 9-1 (maybe Orange, but I'm not sure), but I know it's happened twice in AAA ... Varina in 05 and Meadowbrook last year. In '04, Wythe lost the Hogo to Lebanon, which was 9-0 before losing to Richlands. The WV format was what we had BEFORE, and it sucked, too. Look at PV & Kelly. 1 week ago tonight, Kelly had 26 more ratings points than PV and was 6-0 to PV's 2-4. But PV's 4 losses were to teams that had all won 6 games each. Using the WV system, Kelly woulda been in the playoffs and PV out. Who's the better team? Well, PV beat Kelly 26-8. Edited October 21, 2010 by VHSLhelper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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