Patrick Henry

[redtiger 1,741]

i think it depends on how a coach runs "the" spread; if were talking about lining up in 2x2 all the time and either throwing deep or running HB dive(powell valley did this alot while they were running the spread) then i dont think it will work, now if were talking about mixing it up w/ various sets, personnel combinations and motion(Richlands does this) then yes I believe youre right it can be successful at this level.

 

We have to remember that this is low level high school football, I think that gets forgotten alot.

 

JMO

[thundercloud 179]

Dude! Thanks for proving my point. Richlands and VHS have athletes.

 

I think the answer to your debate is more about the athlete thing than the type offense they run.

That is it's more about what you're willing to invest in a program. As far as Richlands their are some above average athletes but without each and every man investing some serious time, their ablility wouldn't mean must, 75% of what Richlands does is pure work. And not just the players work but all the coaches and community around them.

Have to believe the Hardest task for any coach would be to walk into a program who hasn't experienced success and sell what it takes because nobody there really knows.

 

Have always said " Worlds easiest job is to be a critic, success comes from rolling up your sleeves and finding what it takes to make it work." And that's not just one man's work, that's everybody involved.

[redtiger 1,741]

all of that is very true. With more work from the players no doubt PH would have been more successful, when Richlands players step on the field you can tell they have put alot of work in, it can be seen not just in their size but how hard they fight, the old saying "the harder a man works, the harder it is for him to lose" comes to mind. But I really think the discussion has moved more to PHs scheme and not on the program itself, im sure Compton worked hard to develop the program and he was fighting an uphill battle

[Warriors_XO 214]

Listen all I am saying is that the offense didn't fit the personnel. If a coach is too stubborn to change and be flexible depending upon what personnel he has then he deserves to lose.

 

If the spread offense was the end all answer to all offensive woes then everyone would be running it and all games would end in a tie. Sorry. Aint' gonna happen.

[blueinbama 259]

Listen all I am saying is that the offense didn't fit the personnel. If a coach is too stubborn to change and be flexible depending upon what personnel he has then he deserves to lose.

 

If the spread offense was the end all answer to all offensive woes then everyone would be running it and all games would end in a tie. Sorry. Aint' gonna happen.

 

Since this discussion has taken this direction, let me run this by you. If you have ever had the priveledge of coaching football at any level, you have to realize how difficult it is to change systems in the middle of the season. It takes time to impliment the system in the first place, and after your players buy in it still takes time to try and perfect the system. The spread offense is an equalizer for teams that are out matched physically. It is the same scenario with the wishbone. Quicker, smaller players attempt to neutralize bigger, stronger players with the blocking schemes in both of these offenses. PH has not been a very big team for the past three years, so it is unreasonable to think they can blow opposing teams off the ball and run a "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense. I don't know what type of offense you guys are suggesting for PH, but a spread option or wishbone offense is the best chance for success if your team has a size disadvantage IMO.

[Warriors_XO 214]

Since this discussion has taken this direction, let me run this by you. If you have ever had the priveledge of coaching football at any level, you have to realize how difficult it is to change systems in the middle of the season. It takes time to impliment the system in the first place, and after your players buy in it still takes time to try and perfect the system. The spread offense is an equalizer for teams that are out matched physically. It is the same scenario with the wishbone. Quicker, smaller players attempt to neutralize bigger, stronger players with the blocking schemes in both of these offenses. PH has not been a very big team for the past three years, so it is unreasonable to think they can blow opposing teams off the ball and run a "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense. I don't know what type of offense you guys are suggesting for PH, but a spread option or wishbone offense is the best chance for success if your team has a size disadvantage IMO.

 

I have had the priveledge and I do realize this. However this wasn't a "mid-stream" adjust situation. This was the same for basically 3 years. I watched plenty of film on PH and against Appy 2 years ago they (PH) ran wild out of I formation and then would fizzle out when they got into shotgun. I am not against the spread at all. I just didn't see much innovation and taking advantage of the positives that you are talking about out of Compton's style. Plain and simple the offense looked out of sync and inconsistent. That is two things the coach controls.

 

 

My OPINION is that offenses that put speed in space and take advantage of blocking angles, misdirection AND have a consistent running attack are best for teams with the type of kids PH has. MY OPINION.

 

However, here is a FACT that is plain to see: Square peg (PH kids) does not fit in round hole (PH Offense).

[blueinbama 259]

I have had the priveledge and I do realize this. However this wasn't a "mid-stream" adjust situation. This was the same for basically 3 years. I watched plenty of film on PH and against Appy 2 years ago they (PH) ran wild out of I formation and then would fizzle out when they got into shotgun. I am not against the spread at all. I just didn't see much innovation and taking advantage of the positives that you are talking about out of Compton's style. Plain and simple the offense looked out of sync and inconsistent. That is two things the coach controls.

 

 

My OPINION is that offenses that put speed in space and take advantage of blocking angles, misdirection AND have a consistent running attack are best for teams with the type of kids PH has. MY OPINION.

 

However, here is a FACT that is plain to see: Square peg (PH kids) does not fit in round hole (PH Offense).

 

I don't know all the answers, I'm just trying to understand how the I formation would work against a bigger, stronger team. I don't know anything about the team you mentioned 2 years ago, but do you think that would have worked all season against the bigger teams? Defenses in High School often play 8 or more in the box against teams that have a power running game, and if your team is small it seems to me that would be futile to try and run a power offense with undersized players.

[sunkist 10]

You can say what you want vatech. Everybody knows you need to just sit there and watch the game! you talk more trash for an old lady than anybody ive ever known. Yeah, can u put anymore sorry-ass VT stickers on your car! Please!! its people like you that hurt the program cuz u wont keep your mouth shut especially when you have no clue what your talking about. Last time i checked the coaches played their last game somewhere between 89-2005> i think its about time the players started to shoulder the responsibility!! Ph has never given Compton a fair shake. you morons think that just because he won 2 superbowls as a player he was just gonna blink his eyes and ph would be the top dawg. C'mon Man!!! Everyone outside of the ph community knows you got to have players and those coaches did the most they could do with what they had or have. Compton is there everyday even on snow days with the weightroom open and u guys are to sorry to bring your lil angels out to lift. Now i see where they get it from! I bet none of you on this thread have the nerve to evn say the things u say on here to compton or to his coaches in person. The man came here to try to build a program. For all you idiots that means it takes time! your way hasnt and will not work. so why not give them or it a try?!!! I personally think compton and his coaches are wasted their time there. Most of them deserve better!! Period!!

 

Ummm the kids did compton a fair shake when he first got there! then his negativity and lack of coaching ability turned the not so well program to rock bottom. 3 years ago PH had loads of talent (Ronnie Groves, John Thompson. Hayne Darby, Robert G, Whitesides, Chandler Blankenship, Nick Groves, Aaron Fullen) and that team went 4-6 if Richie thomas had that group they would beat holston had a run against GW and be 8-2! But Mr. SUPER BOWL can barely manage his timeouts let alone these kids! after 2 years the PH community discovered the mistake they made! Coach Compton was a good player but not even close to a good coach! I heard the reason why the Blankenship kid left was because of Compton! than his own son leaves? i suspect compton is the reason. Plain point he is a horrible coach has negative personality and Bluefield better get ready to lead the conference in sacks!

[DA SHOCKER73 10]

Jonah 58 ur so full of crap I can smell it from here! If compton said that its just the cold hard truth. Their o-line couldn't block a little league team. They were a bunch of softee's that were to scared to punch somebody in the mouth. I guess if the pro tried to teach them how to pass block as far as move your feet, stay in front of him and be aggressive then that's exactly how he taught them. U expect some one to make chicken salad out of chicken shit? Please!! Besides Compton didn't coach the o-line one of his assistants was assigned that task.

 

Wrong 2 years ago mike was the oline coach

[meaty_2 10]

Ummm the kids did compton a fair shake when he first got there! then his negativity and lack of coaching ability turned the not so well program to rock bottom. 3 years ago PH had loads of talent (Ronnie Groves, John Thompson. Hayne Darby, Robert G, Whitesides, Chandler Blankenship, Nick Groves, Aaron Fullen) and that team went 4-6 if Richie thomas had that group they would beat holston had a run against GW and be 8-2! But Mr. SUPER BOWL can barely manage his timeouts let alone these kids! after 2 years the PH community discovered the mistake they made! Coach Compton was a good player but not even close to a good coach! I heard the reason why the Blankenship kid left was because of Compton! than his own son leaves? i suspect compton is the reason. Plain point he is a horrible coach has negative personality and Bluefield better get ready to lead the conference in sacks!

 

I kinda doubt BC will lead the conference in sacks for 2 resons. 1.) Compton will finally be coaching o-line the way it needs to be coached instead of over seeing everything and making sure what needs to be done is done and 2.) the players that he will be coaching want to play football and will be eager to learn from someone who has been there and done that. He wont have to put up with dummies like some of the guys on this board nor will he have to baby sit for mommy/daddy. Ph had talent to run the spread skill wise simply because they were and still are not big enough or strong enough to play power football. Ritchie Thomas lost to Northwood many years ago, i doubt he would be able to beat holston considering the run of players they had the past 2-3 years.

[meaty_2 10]

Ummm the kids did compton a fair shake when he first got there! then his negativity and lack of coaching ability turned the not so well program to rock bottom. 3 years ago PH had loads of talent (Ronnie Groves, John Thompson. Hayne Darby, Robert G, Whitesides, Chandler Blankenship, Nick Groves, Aaron Fullen) and that team went 4-6 if Richie thomas had that group they would beat holston had a run against GW and be 8-2! But Mr. SUPER BOWL can barely manage his timeouts let alone these kids! after 2 years the PH community discovered the mistake they made! Coach Compton was a good player but not even close to a good coach! I heard the reason why the Blankenship kid left was because of Compton! than his own son leaves? i suspect compton is the reason. Plain point he is a horrible coach has negative personality and Bluefield better get ready to lead the conference in sacks!

 

FYI! Compton's going to BC so how was his son suppose to stay at PH if he is taking another job in Bluefield? some questions just show others stupidity!!

[DA SHOCKER73 10]

kids at ph just dont have the morale to lift consistently. they are lazy, well must of them. we have about 6 kids that lift regularly. most being freshmen. the older kids say "they have better things to do" or "i don't need to lift to be good at football." attitudes like that wont get ph any better at football. doesnt matter what coach we have. the problem ph has now is the boys of fall.

 

Umm i know 2 of the kids who lifted consistently transferred to RHS aka the Blue Nation! and most kids did say that also with "Lifting will mess up my basketball shot or my throwing arm" i haven't heard any other school hear those phrases alot

[DA SHOCKER73 10]

I kinda doubt BC will lead the conference in sacks for 2 resons. 1.) Compton will finally be coaching o-line the way it needs to be coached instead of over seeing everything and making sure what needs to be done is done and 2.) the players that he will be coaching want to play football and will be eager to learn from someone who has been there and done that. He wont have to put up with dummies like some of the guys on this board nor will he have to baby sit for mommy/daddy. Ph had talent to run the spread skill wise simply because they were and still are not big enough or strong enough to play power football. Ritchie Thomas lost to Northwood many years ago, i doubt he would be able to beat holston considering the run of players they had the past 2-3 years.

 

wow someone peed in your cheerios! don't get angry now its just a board haha

[blueinbama 259]

Ritchie Thomas lost to Northwood many years ago

 

To be fair wasn't that the year Northwood went on to the regionals and lost 1 or 2 games the entire season?

[Warriors_XO 214]

I don't know all the answers, I'm just trying to understand how the I formation would work against a bigger, stronger team. I don't know anything about the team you mentioned 2 years ago, but do you think that would have worked all season against the bigger teams? Defenses in High School often play 8 or more in the box against teams that have a power running game, and if your team is small it seems to me that would be futile to try and run a power offense with undersized players.

 

I'm not saying the I formation is the answer at all. You are missing my point. Let me put it this way:

 

Just because someone lines up in shotgun and has receivers split out doesn't mean they are running a spread offense.

 

The way compton did it was not true spread. I formation is not the answer but I will say that a runner with a blocker in front of him might be better than throwing the ball down the field (where two bad things can happen) for 2 downs and then running draw on 3rd down every series.

 

Now I started this whole thing with the simple premise that there was a disconnect with Compton and the kids. Then Junior got on here and said "no he tried everything and was great with the kids." I tried to stay away from critisizing his offense, but I was left with no choice. The offense didn't fit the kids. A good coach would realize this and try something else, make some adjustments.

 

Then Junior (Meaty_2) gets on again and says, "no, it wasn't the offense. Richlands and everybody else in the world runs it so it must be good." He says its the kids.

 

This is my last statement on this and I am done with this topic it is starting to bore me.

 

A GOOD COACH DOESN'T BLAME THE KIDS, HE BLAMES HIMSELF. Compton always blames the kids, and that's where Junior hears it. I think it was Bear Bryant who said "If the team does bad, I did it. If the team does OK, WE did it. If the team does great, THEY did it."

 

I'm done with this.

Edited February 15, 2011 by jonah58
fix quote

[blueinbama 259]

I'm not saying the I formation is the answer at all. You are missing my point. Let me put it this way:

 

Just because someone lines up in shotgun and has receivers split out doesn't mean they are running a spread offense.

 

The way compton did it was not true spread. I formation is not the answer but I will say that a runner with a blocker in front of him might be better than throwing the ball down the field (where two bad things can happen) for 2 downs and then running draw on 3rd down every series.

 

Now I started this whole thing with the simple premise that there was a disconnect with Compton and the kids. Then Junior got on here and said "no he tried everything and was great with the kids." I tried to stay away from critisizing his offense, but I was left with no choice. The offense didn't fit the kids. A good coach would realize this and try something else, make some adjustments.

 

Then Junior (Meaty_2) gets on again and says, "no, it wasn't the offense. Richlands and everybody else in the world runs it so it must be good." He says its the kids.

 

This is my last statement on this and I am done with this topic it is starting to bore me.

 

A GOOD COACH DOESN'T BLAME THE KIDS, HE BLAMES HIMSELF. Compton always blames the kids, and that's where Junior hears it. I think it was Bear Bryant who said "If the team does bad, I did it. If the team does OK, WE did it. If the team does great, THEY did it."

 

I'm done with this.

 

It's all good Jonah58. I'm not criticizing you for your viewpoint. I know sometimes people get emotional about these things...me included. The reason I got involved in this discussion originally was to solicit some support from the community and players involved with Patrick Henry. I want the program to survive, and eventually to get better. I remember many years ago when R.B. Worthy (Saltville) and Patrick Henry would have some knock-down-drag-out wars on the football field from 8th grade football on through varsity. I lived in Saltville for 6 years before moving to Richlands. Those two teams had some very good football teams in years past, and fan support was outstanding. I would love to see that once again for that area. The student enrollment for both schools is a lot less than it was when I was there, but that doesn't mean they both can't have decent teams. But the kids, the parents, the community and the coaches all have to be on the same page in order to accomplish that. I know you agree. Here's hoping we will see that one day soon.

[deuceswild 15]

Both Northwood and PH had above average middle school teams this year.

[blueinbama 259]

Both Northwood and PH had above average middle school teams this year.

 

Let's hope that's a sign of good things to come.

[eastboundanddown 10]

jonah58

Mitey-Mite

 

 

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 89

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

New developments tonight. Heard Tommy Crigterd is putting in for the PH job. Looks like the 1-29 record he sported at TV got some heads turning. I don't know if he will get the job though. Last time he coached at PH he flipped off the home fans. Reckon they will remember that?

 

Jonah 58 quit banging on Crigger.

1. Eastboundanddown isn't Tom Crigger.

 

2. Twin Valley's football program was on the death rattles when Crigger came and took over.

 

3. We don't go around at Twin Valley claiming we're the third smallest football fielding team in the state of VA or whatever that other crap that St. Paul and not Ervinton, but a Coach like say Malibu would want to beat his chest about that he had some success at the 2nd smallest football playing school in VA. This is the first year that every kid playing will have played for or under the Crigger era AND for the few years before Crigger came there wasn't a JV team or a little league going so I would love for some other coaches and people with all the vast knowledge they have of the game to come coach the fundamentals with 13 or 15 kids and play some real "Iron Man" football when one kid get injured changes every special team, and a spot on offense or defense.

 

4. If you want to get technical about it the "good teams" that St. Paul has had, were because B. Salyers was there before he went to J J Kelly when St. Paul played for the Region in about 2001ish I believe. And The old Cumberland ain't much to write home about brother.....

 

I'm just having some fun with Palmer, he's a good guy I just hope someone tells him that wrestling isn't real, and football is, and Washington County isn't as nice as a whales belly, but it is the belly of the beast.

[Warriors_XO 214]

jonah58

Mitey-Mite

 

 

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 89

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

New developments tonight. Heard Tommy Crigterd is putting in for the PH job. Looks like the 1-29 record he sported at TV got some heads turning. I don't know if he will get the job though. Last time he coached at PH he flipped off the home fans. Reckon they will remember that?

 

Jonah 58 quit banging on Crigger.

1. Eastboundanddown isn't Tom Crigger.

 

2. Twin Valley's football program was on the death rattles when Crigger came and took over.

 

3. We don't go around at Twin Valley claiming we're the third smallest football fielding team in the state of VA or whatever that other crap that St. Paul and not Ervinton, but a Coach like say Malibu would want to beat his chest about that he had some success at the 2nd smallest football playing school in VA. This is the first year that every kid playing will have played for or under the Crigger era AND for the few years before Crigger came there wasn't a JV team or a little league going so I would love for some other coaches and people with all the vast knowledge they have of the game to come coach the fundamentals with 13 or 15 kids and play some real "Iron Man" football when one kid get injured changes every special team, and a spot on offense or defense.

 

4. If you want to get technical about it the "good teams" that St. Paul has had, were because B. Salyers was there before he went to J J Kelly when St. Paul played for the Region in about 2001ish I believe. And The old Cumberland ain't much to write home about brother.....

 

I'm just having some fun with Palmer, he's a good guy I just hope someone tells him that wrestling isn't real, and football is, and Washington County isn't as nice as a whales belly, but it is the belly of the beast.

 

First of all your first sentence in point number 3 makes no sense. Second of all, I never said Eastboundanddown was Crigger, I just made a statment. HMMMMMMM.

 

Third, if your gonna be head coach, better get some thick skin. I will bang on who I want to and if it hurts your feelings then stay off the board. Ever heard of dishing it out but not taking it?

 

Finally, B.I. went to castlewood after St. Paul and not JJ Kelly.

 

You can respond if you want, but I really mean I am done with this thread it's stupid now.

[blueinbama 259]

First of all your first sentence in point number 3 makes no sense. Second of all, I never said Eastboundanddown was Crigger, I just made a statment. HMMMMMMM.

 

Third, if your gonna be head coach, better get some thick skin. I will bang on who I want to and if it hurts your feelings then stay off the board. Ever heard of dishing it out but not taking it?

 

Finally, B.I. went to castlewood after St. Paul and not JJ Kelly.

 

You can respond if you want, but I really mean I am done with this thread it's stupid now.

 

We’re just having a discussion...this is not really something to get all worked up about. If you’re finished with the thread, fine...be finished. I don’t see the need to announce it to everyone. It looks to me like you’re the only one here with thin skin. Either discuss it like an adult and ignore all the silly name calling and derogatory statements and contribute or just don’t respond. I don’t have a problem with anything you have said beyond that. We’re not always going to agree, but we can all have an opinion. No need to take your ball and go home.

Edited February 15, 2011 by blueinbama

[deuceswild 15]

17 pages is the most action PH has gotten in a long time. There are officially more pages of discussion about PH football than the school has had winning seasons in it's history.

[redtiger 1,741]

17 pages is the most action PH has gotten in a long time. There are officially more pages of discussion about PH football than the school has had winning seasons in it's history.

 

I was thinking the same thing on page 10!

 

As far as Crigger is concerned, he didnt have much to work w/ at TV but I guess the program is a little better now than before, I wouldnt put much stock in his record at TV

 

For my part I wasnt saying PH should have lined up in the Power T and tried to run FB belly 30 times a game. I think throwing the ball is an equalizer as where a spread offense is a way to get more talent/speed on the field, if you dont have alot of talent/speed you shouldnt be running a spread offense. I do think PH would have been better suited running an offense w/ a TE which would have allowed the linemen to take advantage of angles.

 

A scheme like the Wing-t would have allowed for angles, traps and double team blocks. I think a couple of us are just saying that would have been more effective. Earlier in this thread there were some videos of PH playing Abingdon and look at the offensive scheme and its easy to see why they struggled.

 

B.I. was at Castlewood and now he is at J.J.Kelly, he has been there for 5-6 years now. On a related note JJK was in bad shape when he got there, his 1st season I believe they tried some spread and other things, since then they have been a wing-t team and have alot of success w/ undersized linemen and average QBs, just saying

Edited February 16, 2011 by redtiger

[sunkist 10]

Patrick Henry i beleive has been misjudged and oppressed over the recent years. Mike Compton has been the reason! he has no coaching morals he is constantly yelling and saying they are horrible! Positive feedback gets positive results! 2 years ago they had a stout runningback a redhead (Does anyone know his name?) that could flatout fly! but through rumors he quit because of coach Compton!!!! if coach compton runs off star players that means he cant connect with the kids!!!!!!! He was the worst hire in PH history! On another note he has less than 20 kids go to practice for him! out of 500 kids he cant manage to get more than 20 kids? he is joke and a pitiful excuse for a coach he shouldve left along time ago!!!!!!!!!

[rjhall71 61]

I have no dogs in this fight but from what I've seen and heard PH has the same problem as Northwood, which is that the parents want to run the program.