lack of pride? motivation? SWVA

[ISOaPBR 15]

Just a thought...

I imagine Southside/central/eastern Va have always had a higher perecntage superior athletes in their student population by simple reason of demographics. What I think has changed with the decline of the population of SWVA is the general makeup of the population that remains. Miners, farmers and factory workers, etc. raise tougher, harder working kids. There aren't that many left. Teams in SWVA are smaller in enrollment size, but it's not like they're still going up against AA-sized schools.

It all swings the balance toward the areas with the higher concentration of natural athletes.

[litltiger 17]

i really think in the last few several yrs that kids get what they want handed to them when they reach high school level and they dont need sports to have a good time.so many kids could make good ball players that dont play because they have other things to occupy their time.i think back in the day you played ball or come home and worked.now days kids can do just about anything and kill time .and way back in the day you had to beg ur parents to play,now parents are trying to get the kids to play.thats just in some cases and im not saying thats the case for everyone,but ive seen some good athletes phase out once they reach that level.

Edited November 15, 2011 by litltiger

[hoard 18]

The spread offense, zone read, and related concepts have been the main reason for the balance of power shifting toward the eastern and southside (i.e. Dogwood) schools in Group A. Those schools have always had a greater # of athletes than SWVA schools and as RedTiger said, modern offenses enable them to get more of their fast kids on the field with the ball in space.

 

In addition, the divisional system (up until this year) favored the large Shenandoah Valley schools like Riverheads and Buffalo Gap who should have been in Division 2.

[GMan 3,569]

SWVA has a LOFT issue...

[UNIONFAN 10]

JMO but it's a complete lack of mean streak. Union has a kid who can squat 500 pounds and he gets pushed all over the feild. Kids aint mean like they used to be IMO. Back when most of us on here played, we grew up playing outside with the other neighborhood kids and if we had issues we didnt run and tell mommie and daddie to help us, we had a good old fashion fist fight and whoever won just won. Kids today play xbox, ps3 and have no clue what its like to get into a good ole fashion fight with somebody. Total lack of mean streak. JMO

[redtiger 1,742]

I would agree that lack of a "mean streak" plays into it. Appy for example had some teams that werent that talented but they were agressive and tough.

 

Back "in the day" football was playing between the tackles and games were on by teams tha were tough, agressive and executed well. Now football games are won by the teams that are faster/quicker, more athletic and execute well.

 

There are examples of running teams that won titles rescently; Gate City, Poquoson, and Riverheads last season are great examples. But overall that is not the norm. And Riverheads is not a great example, their offense is built on putting a wall of blockers infront of fast RBs, not opening gaps for tough RBs.

Edited November 15, 2011 by redtiger

[Guest bigdaddyd50]

Broadway pulled a HUGE upset the week before to make it to the state game. and the FG Adam McClelland made was the ugliest kick I have ever seen in my life, but hey, im not complaining :)

 

I'll let you be the judge on how ugly it was lol

[Guest bigdaddyd50]

[Lance 228]

JMO but it's a complete lack of mean streak. Union has a kid who can squat 500 pounds and he gets pushed all over the feild. Kids aint mean like they used to be IMO. Back when most of us on here played, we grew up playing outside with the other neighborhood kids and if we had issues we didnt run and tell mommie and daddie to help us, we had a good old fashion fist fight and whoever won just won. Kids today play xbox, ps3 and have no clue what its like to get into a good ole fashion fight with somebody. Total lack of mean streak. JMO

 

so true.

 

I hear the kids telling each other they love them and all that...which is great I think...don't get me wrong...but if I had said "Hey Fuller, I love you man!" back in the day....lol...well, let's just say that it just wouldn't happen...was not acceptable...we were all brothers by the sweat and blood we shared, you didn't need to talk about it...lol.

 

Kids today are just a lot different, and seem a lot more sensitive. They might still be mean and get in to stuff...but, it's just not the same. Likewise, I think the older folks who played in the 50's probably said the same thing about my generation....of course those guys played with no face masks, pads, and wore leather helmets....a broken nose, couple of missing teeth, and a concussion all but came standard issue with playing football back then....so there might be some truth to the ongoing decline of the mean streak.

[trublue 939]

Back "in the day" football was playing between the tackles and games were on by teams tha were tough, agressive and executed well. Now football games are won by the teams that are faster/quicker, more athletic and execute well.

 

.

 

There are no absolutes in high school football. A case in point...Stephenson HS here in metro ATL.

 

Stephenson has ELEVEN D1 commits on their team this year and they are ONE and DONE in the playoffs.

The D1 schools: VA Tech 1, KY 2, FLA 2, Miami 1, So. Carolina 2, Vanderbilt 1, Syracuse 1 and Memphis 1... and more could be by signing day in Feb.

 

Stephenson made a video (ala Grayson, Brookwood) for their huge end of the reg. season game against MLK in AAAAA. (MLK response to Steph. vid was 'we will respond on the field' and they did.) In an amazing rally, MLK came back and won 50-49 when UGA-bound WR Blake Tibbs returned a kickoff 85 yards for a touchdown with 16 seconds left in regulation. The loss knocked Stephenson down to a No. 2 playoff seed, where it had to face an underachieving but always dangerous Lowndes squad. Lowndes won 7-0.

 

http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2011/11/12/what-will-be-legacy-of-stephenson-maybe-best-collection-of-d1-prospects-that-georgia-has-ever-seen/

 

Yes, both losses were extremely close, but the most talent, speed and athletes on a team do not ALWAYS guarantee a win or a state championship.

[battleftbl 42]

just wanted to mention that it was more than 3-4 good teams during the 90's. Burton had 2 or 3 teams during the 90's that would have won state championships in Division 1 if not for Appalachia. Clintwood and Honaker had solid teams in the late 90's, early 2000's. George Wythe and Richlands were solid teams. Graham and Grundy were both quality teams. Pound even came up in the late 90's for a small run. Powell Valley, Appalachia and Gate City led the charge in the 90's for SWVA, but we had alot of solid football teams to go along with them.

[UNIONFAN 10]

Speed kills is a statement made famous by John Madden. It is so true. Speed is one of the hardest things to beat, but it is beatable with pure determination. Someone mentioned Appy football. Appalachia was notorious for hardnosed ironman football. They were by far less talented than most teams they played despite the travis turner travis clark era, but they would smash you in the face every single play no matter the score. Powell Valley was like that too in toughness. We were coached to run through the people we hit and gang tackle.

Another noted piece of info on here was execution. Execution was drilled into us. We would run the same play over and over untill everything worked together like clock work in practice. We had 5 to 7 plays that we ran out of 5 different formations to perfection. Execution was key to 8 state championships at powell valley. Union knows how to execute just like that, the difference is we could take it if we messed up and a coach screamed at us and made us run. I heard from a parent that a kid messed up and Turner jumped his case and his mama was so pissed that someone had the balls to talk to their kid like that. Come on its football if you mess up you deserve to get fussed at. Kids dont have the ability to take critizisim anymore like they used to.

[redtiger 1,742]

Im not trying to say definitively that speed and quickness win games, I didnt mean to come across that way. But I feel that in general that is the case. There are of course exceptions, I dont think anyone would argue that Gate City was more talented than Gretna last season but GC still won.

 

Im saying football has changed and SWVA in general hasnt kept up. But all of the issues we have discussed are valid and play a part to an extent. I just think the biggest factor is the game is played differently now and SWVA is behind.

 

For example the Double Slot motion style of offense has been popular in other areas for a decade now, its only come to SWVA rescently. Now some of you are gonna say "its just the Wing-T", well its not. JIB has been running that style of offense for around 7 years and in the past 1-2 seasons TW, Hurley and Castlewood have adopted that style of Offense. Until then those schools were running the I formation w/ small lines and small backs. Im not saying "ditch the I", if you have the talent for it, run it but if you dont then run something that fits your talent. The schools in other parts of the state figured that out a decade ago and SWVA is just now figuring it out.

 

Declining enrollment, alternative forms od entertainment, lack of motivation, lack of toughness and different styles all play a part in the lack of success SWVA has had. I just think that the changing way football is played has had the biggest impact.

Edited November 15, 2011 by redtiger

[redtiger 1,742]

just wanted to mention that it was more than 3-4 good teams during the 90's. Burton had 2 or 3 teams during the 90's that would have won state championships in Division 1 if not for Appalachia. Clintwood and Honaker had solid teams in the late 90's, early 2000's. George Wythe and Richlands were solid teams. Graham and Grundy were both quality teams. Pound even came up in the late 90's for a small run. Powell Valley, Appalachia and Gate City led the charge in the 90's for SWVA, but we had alot of solid football teams to go along with them.

 

Those Pound teams werent that good. Their best team, the '99 team, got beat by a 7-3 Haysi team that was destroyed by Honaker in the first round of the playoffs.

 

Haysi had some good teams in the 90s as well but as ive said before were playing in D2 when they were more of a D1.

 

Then and now we are talking about the same teams being good, 3 of those you mentioned are state title contenders this season(Clintwood, GW and Richlands). The wheels fell off at Appy/PV-Union and Honaker was really good in the late 90s but wasnt much before that and arent much farther down now('99-'00 excluded), Grundys a shadow of what it was but so is the enrollment, and Graham had an incredible run but it came to an end as all runs do.

[tornado99 345]

I agree with all of the arguments of why SWVA has struggled the last few years (enrollment, change of schemes, etc.), but for the past teams especially in the 90s, early 2000s, the successful teams usually had a special D1 or D2 caliber athlete leading the team.

 

The Jones Brothers greatly contributed to 4 of PVs titles. Travis Clark was regarded by some to be as talented as Julius during some of Appalachia's success in the late 90s. Travis Turner was no slouch himself. Gate City had Jake Houseright, Chad Beasley, Josh Shoemaker, Benny? Wolfe. Honaker had Heath Miller. Eric Satterfield at Lee was a beast. Richlands has had Austin Fuller, Caleb Jennings (D3 I know, but very successful), Justin McCracken, now a Devon Johnson. Barcliff from GW, as well as Throckmorton? were also special. Each school had an athlete with the ability to take over again if needed.

 

We just don't see those athletes as often currently, probably due to lack of enrollment.

[redtiger 1,742]

Great point Tornado99.

 

I dont mean to steal your arguement or twist it but take a solid team(as we have several locally now) and add 1 stud to them and now they are a really good team. Not that many studs is SWVA football right now and so not many really good teams.

Edited November 16, 2011 by redtiger

[Deleted Account 5,203]

just wanted to mention that it was more than 3-4 good teams during the 90's. Burton had 2 or 3 teams during the 90's that would have won state championships in Division 1 if not for Appalachia. Clintwood and Honaker had solid teams in the late 90's, early 2000's. George Wythe and Richlands were solid teams. Graham and Grundy were both quality teams. Pound even came up in the late 90's for a small run. Powell Valley, Appalachia and Gate City led the charge in the 90's for SWVA, but we had alot of solid football teams to go along with them.

 

Graham lost to the eventual state champions more times than I can even count...

[Lance 228]

Graham lost to the eventual state champions more times than I can even count...

 

same with Grundy, only I can probably count them lol.

[redtiger 1,742]

I think Haysi has lost to 6 eventual state champions; Powell Valley 3 times, Giles twice and Gate City once.

Edited November 16, 2011 by redtiger

[UNIONFAN 10]

All those calliber athelets mentioned is a HUGE part of sucsess for each team they played for. Those kids were almost men among boys so to speak. They were the driving force behind some wonder teams and memorable games. The one thing common thread among all those young men were work ethic. They worked to get where they went on and off the feild. They also grew up playing football with a real leather ball outside on real grass with real kids in real dirt and probably had a few real fist fights over it too. The level of toughness that we had growing up is declining with each genereation. I dont want to sound like the old man at hardees bitchin bout how he had to walk up hill in the snow in july to get to work in the mines when he was 5 to support is 15 younger brothers and sisters but i can see where those old timers are comin from. Each Generation does look weaker in some way or another. This group of kids today tellin each other "i love you" like Lance said. Come on man! If a guy would have said "i love you" to me and it not be my dad or grand dad id pooch kicked him right in the jollys. Metrosexual garb has finnaly reached the hills boys and it aint good for the home team.

Wow I kind of just went on a bit of a rant but haha it was worth it. Feels good to fuss about someone besides the old lady or the dog. But either way these kids today grew up playing video games of football and if they sweat they think they are sick and nasty and need a loofa sponge took to them right then and there. to wrap it up, No mean streak, lack of execution, no work ethic, no caliber athelets, and no mean ass coaches throwing enough rocks at the kids while they run laps. (that really used to happen to us if we lost in JV haha no joke)

[tornado99 345]

Whatever happened to Sheldon Adams? PV also had a huge TE. He had great speed, but lost to a very talented GC team in the Region. For GC fans reading, whatever happened to Tyler Kilgore and Isaiah Spivey? That State Championship team was probably the most physically dominant local team I have seen in the finals since finals were held at neutral sites.

[UNIONFAN 10]

Sheldon Adams ended up going to Virginia Tech to play baseball and then on to law school at Liberty and Grundy. I talked to his father in law about three weeks ago and he said that Sheldon is back in Wise Co. The tightend was Michael Stacy. He was big and fast and good. He ended up playing at Tusculom along with TJ Hammler from our grade. I havent seen TJ in years but Im pretty sure Michael is either back in Wise Co or down in FLA but i cant remember which. We had a talented team that season but a very talented team in Gate City did beat us. Our smallest lineman was Justin Gilley and he was 5'10" and 235. I miss those days haha

[Gizmo777 10]

A lot of great points made on here and almost all of them have merit. One thing nobody has mentioned is the infiltration of Prescription drug abuse into our area. All areas of the state have this problem but not to the extent of our region. We have more people hooked on Oxy and such as any area of the state. These people only produce kids which will probably follow in mom and dads example, sad but true. They will never contribute to society and only take from it. They definitely don't produce many good students, football players, and/or athelets of any kind for that matter. If we ever get an answer to this trend for Southwest Virginia being a drug infested area things will change here for the better. Football will pick up and so will the integrity and economy of the area as well. I would not dought that many of the thugs which taunt players and refs are druggies as well. They live amoung us and some are very hard to recognise.

[tornado99 345]

Thanks. Great athletes. One I played against who I thought was a great football player was Matt McCoy. Went to college with Jake Stepp, Clay Prewitt, and Luke Gilley. All solid players that I remember, although Julius Jones rightfully garnered the headlines.

[tornado99 345]

A lot of great points made on here and almost all of them have merit. One thing nobody has mentioned is the infiltration of Prescription drug abuse into our area. All areas of the state have this problem but not to the extent of our region. We have more people hooked on Oxy and such as any area of the state. These people only produce kids which will probably follow in mom and dads example, sad but true. They will never contribute to society and only take from it. They definitely don't produce many good students, football players, and/or athelets of any kind for that matter. If we ever get an answer to this trend for Southwest Virginia being a drug infested area things will change here for the better. Football will pick up and so will the integrity and economy of the area as well. I would not dought that many of the thugs which taunt players and refs are druggies as well. They live amoung us and some are very hard to recognise.

 

An often overlooked reason as well. It makes me wonder, as many of those who were tough as nails like those we have mentioned, are now often part of the problem.