battleftbl 42 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Read this earlier this morning and figured some would find it interesting. Please read and take note..... A LITTLE GUN HISTORY I Thought you might appreciate this . .In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------ -----------Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control = 56 million. ------------------------------It has the now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced, by new law, to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: List of 7 items: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and now only the criminals still have their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins, home invasion robberies (with the people still at home) and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has so drastically decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, people are 'citizens'. Without them, they are 'subjects'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasDenton 79 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 All I saw on the news yesterday when I watched it was talk about how Japan only had 11 gun-related homicides in 2008 with it's strict gun laws. I think it's a lot about the culture of each society....what people's thoughts are on guns and how they treat them. Of course, the news didn't mention how many homicides there were total in 2008 (I'd guess that there was a lot more than 11, showing that criminals will use anything to kill...not just guns). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 All I saw on the news yesterday when I watched it was talk about how Japan only had 11 gun-related homicides in 2008 with it's strict gun laws. I think it's a lot about the culture of each society....what people's thoughts are on guns and how they treat them. Of course, the news didn't mention how many homicides there were total in 2008 (I'd guess that there was a lot more than 11, showing that criminals will use anything to kill...not just guns). Japan's an interesting study, because two cultural values come into play. One, the Japanese culture is one that prides itself to an unhealthy degree on success and winning. You can see this in Japan's absurd suicide rate (7th in the world...while the U.S. is 38th). Two, the unconditional surrender in 1945 after the U.S. nuked them into submission. Considering that the unconditional surrender is the most humiliating form of defeat...in a culture that prides itself on winning...anything to do with the military, including guns, was unceremoniously given the door. Too bad the "Used Girls' Underwear Vending Machines" did not go the way of guns in Japan. Apparently, that's not as humiliating as an unconditional surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,919 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Read this earlier this morning and figured some would find it interesting. Please read and take note..... A LITTLE GUN HISTORY I Thought you might appreciate this . .In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------ -----------Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control = 56 million. ------------------------------It has the now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced, by new law, to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: List of 7 items: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and now only the criminals still have their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins, home invasion robberies (with the people still at home) and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has so drastically decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, people are 'citizens'. Without them, they are 'subjects'. I am not getting into a gun control debate here or anywhere! I simply think reasonable people can come to a reasonable solution and assault weapons and magazines that hold obscene numbers of rounds are not necessary. I would, however, recommend researching something read before believing it. http://abcnews.go.com/International/australia-model-successful-gun-control-laws/story?id=18007055#.UNIre2872_k The above link is something being widely reported by several news outlets and is, for the most part, factual. The earlier postings highlighted in bold about Australian gun laws are simple not true. The article is a fabrication and nowhere near accurate. The Australian gun laws were also enacted in 1997, not a year ago as the article suggests. http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 .... and assault weapons and magazines that hold obscene numbers of rounds are not necessary I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveler4 10 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I am not getting into a gun control debate here or anywhere! I simply think reasonable people can come to a reasonable solution and assault weapons and magazines that hold obscene numbers of rounds are not necessary.] Agreed. The only problem is finding the reasonable people. Some people think you should be able to own weapons of mass destruction, cause it is their "hobby". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOaPBR 15 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I agree. Then we should ban cargo pants because the bad guys will pack 12 magazines of 10 rounds instead of four magazines of 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 There was a time when I belonged to the "no high capacity" group but I have been swayed. The issue has nothing to do with the firearms(which I always believed) or their round capacity. The issue is how to keep these individuals away from our young people and how to identify these dangerous individuals before something happens. Hundreds of rounds could be carried in a backpack so limiting magazine capacity would do little. Really all it would acompolish is to give a false sense of security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,919 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 There was a time when I belonged to the "no high capacity" group but I have been swayed. The issue has nothing to do with the firearms(which I always believed) or their round capacity. The issue is how to keep these individuals away from our young people and how to identify these dangerous individuals before something happens. Hundreds of rounds could be carried in a backpack so limiting magazine capacity would do little. Really all it would acompolish is to give a false sense of security. Yeah, because we do such a great job of this! See DUI/ DWI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Hundreds of rounds could be carried in a backpack so limiting magazine capacity would do little. Really all it would acompolish is to give a false sense of security. Not true. Jared Lee Loughner fired 31 bullets in 15 seconds during his attack in Tucson and he wasn't stopped until his magazine was empty and he got jumped while trying to reload. The simple fact that everyone wants to ignore is that assault rifles with high capacity ammunition magazines provide the simplest and easiest way to go about killing......shouldn't mass killing be made more difficult? Edited December 21, 2012 by parsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strapiton 10 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 We should just outlaw killing......Oh wait, that that has already then done. Think the "killers will obey the a new assault rifle laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Not true. Jared Lee Loughner fired 31 bullets in 15 seconds during his attack in Tucson and he wasn't stopped until his magazine was empty and he got jumped while trying to reload. The simple fact that everyone wants to ignore is that automatic weapons with high capacity ammunition magazines provide the simplest and easiest way to go about killing......shouldn't mass killing be made more difficult? I just feel that by focusing on magazine capacity we are missing the real point and diverting time/resources away from the underlying issue. Im not arguing that it wouldnt make killing more difficult(as ive said before the military uses large capacity magazines for a reason) but imo it shouldnt be the focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futbolking 766 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 My opinion is that NOBODY needs an assault rifle or high capacity magazines........NOBODY... Don't even bring up that the military should have it, I'm not talking about the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Not true. Jared Lee Loughner fired 31 bullets in 15 seconds during his attack in Tucson and he wasn't stopped until his magazine was empty and he got jumped while trying to reload. The simple fact that everyone wants to ignore is that automatic weapons with high capacity ammunition magazines provide the simplest and easiest way to go about killing......shouldn't mass killing be made more difficult? I just feel that by focusing on magazine capacity we are missing the real point and diverting time/resources away from the underlying issue. Im not arguing that it wouldnt make killing more difficult(as ive said before the military uses large capacity magazines for a reason) but imo it shouldnt be the focus. I also firmly believe that it is possiblethat our freedom and ability to defend ourselves will be chipped away until we are no longer citizens but subjects. Im not ok with that. Edited December 21, 2012 by redtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I just feel that by focusing on magazine capacity we are missing the real point and diverting time/resources away from the underlying issue. Im not arguing that it wouldnt make killing more difficult(as ive said before the military uses large capacity magazines for a reason) but imo it shouldnt be the focus. I think you are overlooking the obvious.......there is no one simple fix for this problem and gun control has to be just a portion of an overall strategy to make these types of attacks more difficult. Edited December 21, 2012 by parsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 ....so who said magazine capacity is the sole focus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strapiton 10 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yes futbolking is right NOBODY needs assault rifles.........NOBODY. Come to think of it NOBODY needs a automobile that will do 100+ MPH right off the lot ether........NOBODY. We buy these things because we WANT them. And i'm willing to bet my next paycheck (which will be quite nice by the way) that the misused auto kills more than the misused assault rifle. We should post speed limits, wait we already did that. Damn law breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,919 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Yes futbolking is right NOBODY needs assault rifles.........NOBODY. Come to think of it NOBODY needs a automobile that will do 100+ MPH right off the lot ether........NOBODY. We buy these things because we WANT them. And i'm willing to bet my next paycheck (which will be quite nice by the way) that the misused auto kills more than the misused assault rifle. We should post speed limits, wait we already did that. Damn law breakers. A crack head wants drugs. A pedophile wants young kids. A drunk wants to drive. Where does it end? A misused automobile don't typically kill 20 children in a classroom or 33 students on a peaceful college campus or 12 people in a movie theater in the matter of seconds. I have 8 and 5 year old children with more responsibility concerning WANTS vs. NEEDS! Edited December 21, 2012 by sixcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strapiton 10 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Maybe we should outlaw crack, pedophiles, and drunk driving.......wait we did that too. I'm almost certain when and if we outlaw assault rifles bad people will obey these laws. I to have children 19 and 21 and I worry EVERY time they get in their cars.Not for fear of the misused assault rifle but the misused auto. IM not in the military and I don't race cars but I have assault rifles and cars that go over 100 MPH (bet you do to) and I don't abuse either one. But people do and have always broke the law. we cannot wave a magic wand and make all assault rifles go away, they will be available for people who don't care about the law. Just like drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_school_blue 247 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 My opinion is that NOBODY needs an assault rifle or high capacity magazines........NOBODY... Don't even bring up that the military should have it, I'm not talking about the military. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It starts with "assault rifles" then it will move to all semi-automatic weapons (including hand guns), next it will be lever action rifles and pretty soon you will be allowed a pocket knife only. This generation scares the hell out of me. I think some of you don't realize that this is a fundamental right that everyone is the country is entitled to. That is one of the reasons why for generations, our people have fought and died to preserve this country. The answer to this issue is school security, the only people that "gun control" effects are tax-paying, law-abiding citizens. If all AR-15's are outlawed, do you think that that the Bloods, Crips, MS-13, Hells Angels...etc will turn theirs in. Let me answer that for you. HELL NO. Another perspective, if firearms are outlawed, do you think that will make it easier or harder for a extremist to carry out a terrorist strike in this country again. Some of you need to wake up. With all of the attention that this has gotten in the national and international news. The next thing these "terrorists" target may not be airplanes and buildings. Domestic firearms should not be the issue. Securing our schools should be the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futbolking 766 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Where in the hell did I say that I don't think people have a right to own a gun? I own a gun....more than one in fact.... You said "Guns don't kill people...people kill people"... I agree....but I would add that assault rifles and high capacity magazines kill MORE people... Nobody is trying to take away anybody's guns here....nobody's 2nd amendment rights are in danger. That's my opinion, it's not going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futbolking 766 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Where in the hell did I say that I don't think people have a right to own a gun? I own a gun....more than one in fact.... Some say "Guns don't kill people...people kill people"... I agree....but I would add that assault rifles and high capacity magazines kill MORE people... Nobody is trying to take away anybody's guns here....nobody's 2nd amendment rights are in danger. That's my opinion, it's not going to change. Let me preface this by saying that this rant is not directed at anybody in particular on this board, I've just been wanting to get this off of my chest for a few days now. If you all look at my earlier posts, you'll see that the safety of our children and securing our schools should be our first priority. I stated my opinion, why in the hell do people think that they know what I believe, quit putting words in my mouth, I'm tired of this.... I live this every single day.... I worked in a school building where a teacher was shot in Richmond back in 98.... It's just my belief, if some of you think I'm wrong for believing the way that I do, then fine. Just don't act like I'm a fricking idiot for believing the way I do. Opinions are like a-holes...everybody's got one....some are just a lot crappier than others!! Edited December 22, 2012 by futbolking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend11 32 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 It starts with "assault rifles" then it will move to all semi-automatic weapons (including hand guns), next it will be lever action rifles and pretty soon you will be allowed a pocket knife only. Anyone who adheres to this mind frame when it comes to firearm "regulation" is simply wrong. No more words need to be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swvacsas2 15 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 One statistic that never comes out is the percentage of assault weapons in the overall scheme of murders in the US. Granted that most of the publicized mass killings have involved assault weapons- but I feel that they will be found to compose only a small percentage of guns used in overall crime. How many killings have occurred locally using assault weapons? The most publicized crimes plainly involve individuals with mental problems- this should be the crux of a public response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Let me preface this by saying that this rant is not directed at anybody in particular on this board, I've just been wanting to get this off of my chest for a few days now. If you all look at my earlier posts, you'll see that the safety of our children and securing our schools should be our first priority. I stated my opinion, why in the hell do people think that they know what I believe, quit putting words in my mouth, I'm tired of this.... I live this every single day.... I worked in a school building where a teacher was shot in Richmond back in 98.... It's just my belief, if some of you think I'm wrong for believing the way that I do, then fine. Just don't act like I'm a fricking idiot for believing the way I do. Opinions are like a-holes...everybody's got one....some are just a lot crappier than others!! You dont mean that. Sorry I couldnt help myself. I gladly accept anyone elses opnions and as ive said before this website is a site where we can all be open. Parsons, it just seems like capacity is what everyone wants to talk about and while that may reduce the impact of these attacks it will not stop them(im sure you know that). I feel that while this is on everyones mind we need to focus our efforts on trying to address the real issues; mental illness, a general lack of understanding of what a firearm really is and what it really means to kill something. We also need to address selfishness in this country, its always "me me me" and I think that is the evil behind these events. IF stricter firearms regulations were put into place weapons and magazines already owned by citizens would most likley be "grandfathered in", which means the weapons and high capacity magazines already owned would not be seized and thus still avaliable. For a further look into the relation between mass shootings and gun control take a look at the Cumbria shootings in Britain in 2010. The shooter killed 11 people and shot 12 more using a double barrell shotgun and a .22 rifle. He didnt have a "assault rifle" or a semi suto pistol. In fact his victims had to cower in fear as he shot at them because due to British gun control laws they were unable to defend themselves. Also look at Columbine. Only 1 weapon using high capacity magazines was used. Edited December 22, 2012 by redtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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