What's up with the VHSL????

[PVhas8 10]

Hey, what's up with the VHSL?? What is going on?????

Why is it that Gate City remains in Division 2 ????

They have a much higher enrollment than several AA Division 3 teams. Such as Tazewell and Graham along with a few more.

But, they are still in "A". Doesn't make sense.........

They should have never been in single "A" to begin with. But I guess since they have struggled winning a state championship in "AA" for a while they had all of the politicians living there in Gate City to have a talk with the VHSL in helping them out. I advise you folks to check this out as well and you will see how alot of schools in your area are being cheated. Look at poor Rye Cove, they were forced to go to Division 2 and they have a lower enrollment than alot of teams that are still in Division 1 across the state. Why were the other schools not considered for Division 2????

The VHSL has alot of explaining to do and they owe it to the kids that are being jerked around. But, you will never see that happen.

[Observer77 12]

There are currently 40 schools participating in Division 2 football across the state, with Region C Grayson County @ 606 at the highest & Rye Cove the lowest at 194. We are all in agreement it is unfair for RC, but would you not agree that is a wide margin for a classification?

Here is some enrollment numbers, beginning with the highest:

 

Grayson County 606

Central Woodstock 544

James Monroe 526

Wilson Memorial 517

Washington & Lee 500

Arcadia 493

Chatham 488

Nelson County 474

Manassas Park 469

Floyd County 469

Goochland 453

Gate City 453

Randolph-Henry 451

Clark County 451

George Mason 451

 

That is a listing of 40% of the schools in Division 2. Why does people always want to complain about GC being in this division? Gate City petitioned to play up for years & finally decided not to petition for whatever reasons the powers that be decided upon. You don't have to petition to play in a division that your numbers place you into. Graham & Grundy could stop petitioning to play up as well, and if they did, I know GC fans would welcome it. We miss seeing the GC/Graham matchups, as they were always good hard fought games no matter what each teams records happen to be.

In GC's first year of re-joining the LPD, both Powell Valley & J.J. Kelly were listed on the vhsl.org website as having a greater enrollment than Gate City. More often than not Powell Valley had a greater enrollment than Gate City during the 90's, this was also confirmed on vhsl.org's website. I am sure this wasn't brought up as an argument within Big Stone Gap during that time. Some people, mostly the younger set, don't realize that Gate City's football roots started out in the LPD in the early 60's (possibly late 50's). GC's move to AA came about in 1970 when classification came about. At that time, they did have AA numbers. Numbers have dropped significantly over the years & now have Single A numbers & have had Single A numbers for many years. I commend Graham, Tazewell & Grundy for playing AA ball. I am sure if GC was geographically located as close to these schools as they are to each other, GC would be in the SWD today playing Group AA football. Unfortunately that is not the case. Trust me, there are more GC football fans than not that would like to be located closer to SWD schools than we currently happen to be.

The VHSL moved Rye Cove into Division 2 due to their enrollment being 6-8 students more in grades 10-12 than the previous Division 2 school Castlewood. The VHSL wanted Region D to have 9 Div. 1 & 9 Div. 2 schools, so RC moved up while Castlewood moved down. I don't agree with having RC in Div. 1 & neither do they. They have to play the cards that are dealt to them. Not meaning to cause a ruckus by posting these, you can form your own opinion, it really doesn't matter to me.

[PVhas8 10]

I don't know where the VHSL comes up with these ficticious enrollment numbers for their website. But if you talk to the staff and alumni throughout the LPD including staff and alumni from Gate City they laugh at this. They will tell you that J.J. Kelly and Powell Valley have never had a higher enrollment than Gate City. This even comes from the lips of Gate City staff, alumni, coaches and former players. Let's face it, it's all politics. It is all manipulated wherever it seems that the politicians (high ranking) reside. And wherever they don't, then you can see these schools get the short end of the stick. Check it out.... Where the politicians (high ranking) reside in the Commonwealth you will see that the schools in these SWVa towns are being helped in all aspects of athletics.

I have a relative who is in administration with the Wise County school board and he says that the numbers posted on the website are a total joke!!! You can't go by them! As soon as I get the true numbers for all schools from him (which he does have access to) I'm planning on posting these to show just how unfair and poorly the VHSL are treating kids throughout SWVa. I think they should rename the VHSL, "Virginia High Sociey League". It would better fit the little click that these politicians have.

[GMan 3,569]

<font color="800000"> Gate City's enrollment is only higher than Graham's of the schools you mentioned.

The reason Graham is still in AA is because they choose to play up. Graham has been a Class A size school for many years but has continued to play at the AA level. Gate City did the same for many years until they decided to play in the Class in which their enrollment placed them.

You, being from Powell Valley, really don't have much room to talk or complain. PV's enrollment is HIGHER than Graham's...why don't they play AA? </font>

[PVhas8 10]

If you would read my first reply you would see and understand that the numbers posted on the VHSL website are not true. And also PV has tried to schedule Graham in the past and Graham has refused. Ask Graham's head coach WHY and see what kind of answer you get.

[GMan 3,569]

<font color="800000">The numbers ARE correct for classification purposes...they only count three grades NOT four. Why would a school lie about enrollment, especially on the low side, when the money they receive from the state is determined by the number of students they have in the school?

As for why Graham doesn't play Powell Valley...I don't have to ask Coach Carlock why...I know the answer...we DON'T play Class A schools...period! We played Gate City for years during the regular season and dropped them off the schedule when they dropped down. Why should we hurt ourselves by playing teams in a lower class? We could if we wanted to but we don't...that's why you've seen schools like Tennessee High, Elizabethton, Greenville, Woodrow Wilson, G.W.-Danville, and Blacksburg on our schedule. If PV really wants to play Graham, step up to AA and I'm sure Coach Carlock would immediately put you on the schedule! </font>

[Observer77 12]

Well, considering that I am from Gate City, graduated from Gate City & have family in Gate City as well as have other family members, friends & acquaintances attending GCHS I believe I know those numbers are correct for grades 10-12. When you have graduating classes between 140-160, normally your enrollment in grades 10-12 will fall in that category. You still haven't replied to the posters question of why PV doesn't play up at AA as well if Gate City should be. I replied to your initial posting with accurate documented facts & figures while you responded with unfounded allegations & conspiracy theories immediately after a Powell Valley loss to Gate City in football. I believe I will leave it at that & let others be the judge.

One last comment, I feel that GC's football program had decent success in the AA ranks in the past, maybe I am wrong on that account. I am not fishing for compliments, only wanting someone other than a GC fan/alumnus/has-been to validate my claim that GC had decent football before leaving AA after the 2000 season. Graham, Tazewell, Grundy, Richlands & others have also had great seasons & either have or had great programs. If those others could help me out here, was Gate City struggling in AA football when they ceased petitioning the VHSL to hold an AA status like the thread initiator claims?

[olewave 44]

powell valley was not crying when they were getting 80 kids out for football. they can play up if they like, the highlands needs another team, since it is so weak maybe powell valley could win the district. as for gate city, i think they were just as dominating in aa as they are now. the only differance, is they are not getting tested until late in the playoffs. as far as enrollment, no one is going to lie for sports with figures, their federal dollars and state funding comes from the number of students you have. which breaks down to close to $4800 per student. i do not think administration would risk losing that kind of funding in this part of the state.

[PVhas8 10]

Yes, I know that the numbers are for 3 grades only. And like I said County school board administrators laugh at these numbers that have been manipulated by politics that take place in the VHSL. Several members of the VHSL do campaign for politicians ya know. And numbers do get changed, whether you realize it or not. Ask "them" why they lie. It's not the schools that do it. I never once blamed the schools for these false enrollment numbers. I only asked the question why and it was addressed to the VHSL.

All I know is that the numbers are wrong. I was once told by a former VA state official that alot of times enrollment numbers will be changed, so funds could be shifted to another region. WHAT??? And who has to record these numbers? The VHSL of course, so the reputations of the politicians won't be tarnished. Once again these are crooked politicians for you. It's not about winning or losing it's about what is fair to the communities and most importantly the kids. If the true numbers were reported and not changed then all of these funds wouldn't go up-state. See my point? We would be due. But if the VHSL records show 453 compared to 521, guess what less money for that school and more for someone else (up-state). The extra monies for this could be used for academics, which is first and foremost when it comes to seconday education.

It's time that the VHSL quits all this non-sense and support the kids, schools, and not so much the politicians!

Yes, why would you play "A"?? I can understand that.

[LegendatLegion 109]

Please folks! It is no use! PVhas8 is right. There's no need to deny it anymore. It is a conspiracy. When they got that 8th title we had a meeting over in the Highlands district and decided that someone had to move down to A. The most logical choice was Virginia High, because they had the closest numbers enrollment wise. They could also funnel several thousand of their enrollment to Tennessee High and nobody would ever guess since THS already had 22,000 enrolled there. The problem was they hadn't had a lot of success lately in AA football. GC then was the next best choice geographically and the fact that we had struggled so much in AA, the last state title was way back in 1997. Good lord there's hardly anyone left alive from those "glory days". What would we do with the 2500 or so excess students so we could meet A enrollment? We decided to holdback about 1,000 in 7th and 8th grade. That's where the nucleus of the 2002-03 teams came from. We then built an underground 6-lane hwy from GC to Kingsport. Johnson City and Bristol. Clever wasn't it. So with all those excess GC atheletes DB is 11-1, Science Hill made the playoffs as did Tennessee High. Virginia High will get a better "shipment" if you will, next year and hopefully we can get them into the playoffs. All of this so we could keep Powell Valley out of the Championship hunt. We did siphon several good players out of Appalachia which is why their numbers are so low now, but that's a story best left for another day.

[PVhas8 10]

Well, just don't blame me when these school enrollment numbers adjusted by the VHSL cause your schools to be shut down and consolidated with others. Just like what is happening to PV and Appalachia. That is what the state is after boys. The state has already mandated that this be done as soon as schools reach a lower enrollment. If you would help guys like me and others that are pushing for these false recordings to stop, then you won't have to be called the Gate City Titans or the Gate City War Eagles....or the Scott Co. Blue Eagles. How does that sound to you??

These recordings aren't much less from the actual students that you have. So it won't be noticed if you entered the school buildings.

But if counties show a drop in total enrollment they will work on consolidation. This can be as few as 2 or 3hundred in Scott county alone. Gov. Mark Warner says that in rural areas this will happen. The paperwork will be fudged people!!! And it will start in the most west corner of the state and work it's way toward the east side of SWVa. Look at what happened to all of the schools in Lee County, the most western county in the state. They were consolidated. Why? At the time not a whole lot of people knew. But, false recordings were found later, but no explanation to the citizens of Lee County. Just to find out later that the 3.5 million dollars saved went to the Virginia Senate and House of Representatives for raises that I feel were not deserved. I don't know about you, but I can think of better ways that this money could have been used. Especially when it is our money! Now Wise County is next. And guess what??? The millions that are saved by all of these consolidations will go directly to Richmond. And the VHSL has their hand in it!!

[Lance 228]

Grundy does not have many more students than graham does...yet both schools choose to remain in AA and play up...I think that says a lot about both programs and you never hear anyone from either school bitch about it. I would not want grundy to go to group A.

[GMan 3,569]

<font color="800000"> Unless you have good, solid evidence other than "so and so's" word, I suggest you quit making accusations and false claims. Your "conspiracy theory" is a crock of you know what. It seems like everytime PV, or other schools from that part of the state lose to Gate City, someone screams bloody murder over incorrect enrollment numbers. The numbers ARE correct, no one "adjusts" them for athletic purposes. The only reason you are doing this is because you are a sad individual who is trying to find any excuse he can to blame his team's loss on other than the fact that they were beaten by a better team. PV's days of "dominating" small schools is over...you finally have a school your size, in your district, and you can't beat them. </font>

[ghs73 157]

i thought that this was a football forum not a political forum i have a son at graham and i know that their enrollment is what the vhsl states it is in the top 3 grades and yes the population at graham has dropped over the years since i went to graham in 73 but that has nothing to do with the state gov. or the vhsl it has to do with the fact that people move away from here. i think out of the kids i graduated with maybe a handful are still here in bluefield a lot have left for other states and areas. that is why the student population has dropped in swva. not a lot of jobs here since the mining industry has dropped. but still i think that all the teams in swva play great football no matter what division they play in. i remember when gate city and graham played in the old swd some of the best games around and gate city gave us all we could handle and then some.so do not blame the vhsl blame the people that leave your area for other areas for the loss of students.

[PVhas8 10]

Please read #752 G-Man. I don't think you see what is going on. You are eventually headed for consolidation big boy. Unless people will open their eyes and help.

I am not whining over a loss to Gate City. It's just a football game, just like your precious little so-called website. I'm just concerned on how are kids are being treated, that's all. Because the VHSL is helping Richmond in fudging enrollment numbers to get consolidation moving. I'm trying to get support to help stop this, but all anyone thinks about is their football team. It's not about football, it's about how the kids are going to be placed. And how are tax dollars are being used for something that is unnecessary. They make it sound like this money will be used for areas where it is needed. Not so fast my friend!! It will end up in the Va. Senate and The House of Representatives pockets. I sincerely hope that you have not fell into their trap like others in believing what has been recorded on their website. This is just to help get the ball rolling for combining schools in rural SWVa. These are not so-so's that I have been talking about here. I will pray for your website and its users that they will see what is happening.

[GMan 3,569]

<font color="800000">Now I see where you are taking this...you don't want the kids from Appy coming to Powell Valley! Why didn't you just say that in the beginning instead of taking us around the world to get there?

Schools should be consolidated when their numbers drop to a point that it is not feasible to continue operating that school. I know for a fact Pocahontas will be closed in a matter of years and those students will be sent to Graham and Tazewell. But Graham won't be known as the Indians and Tazewell won't be wearing Orange and Black as you suggest.

If its going to save some of my tax dollars to close a school and make the system that much more efficient, then I'm all for it.

</font>

[sandman 13]

Alright then, why haven't we had the common decency to shut down Pocahontas High School. I have been stating the point that it's a financial cancer for years with the Tazewell County School Board to no avail.

[trumpet1988 289]

This is getting kind of dumb.

[dookie 10]

Dude, here are a couple of facts for you. 1. Powell Valley has had a higher enrollment than Gate City in the past. In the late 90's, Gate was about 450 and Powell Valley was at about 505. 2. Powell Valley has always had a bigger enrollment than Graham. 3. Powell Valley and JJ Kelly have run from AA like a thief in the night for years. You always preferred to beat up on the "little guys" for years.In Powell Valley's case, I will guarantee you one damn thing, if Graham was playing single A for the last 20 years, Powell Valley's state titles would be cut in half at least. Might have something to do with the fact that Robbins has NEVER beaten Carlock. EVER. Gate City has done exactly what Graham would have done playing single A.......Ending the Powell Valley dynasty. Good for Gate City, I'm glad. And Powell Valley fans, face it, the run is OVER!

[ghs73 157]

i agree with you g man but i do see in the future in tazewell county some day only having two high schools. one in eastern tazewell county and one it western end but i probably wont be alive when it happens. i think that because both tazewell high and graham high and poca. enrollment are about the same as richlands if you combine the three. but not for sure. i cannot see continued spending on schools as enrollment drops. the students lose because they cannot get the classes that a larger school can offer and this hurts them when they go to college. so one day if enrollment continues the way it is it just might happen which i think will not be a bad thing to consolidate the schools. i realize that people from the schools would like to keep their school open but to what expense. i do not think that tazewell county can continue to keep 4 high schools for ever. but this is just my opinion and as we all know what they are worth.

[LegendatLegion 109]

I guess what i'm trying to figure out is, do you really believe that the enrollment at Appalachia and all of the other schools you've mentioned has not dropped significantly over the last twenty years? I have a nephew that is a senior at GC and I looked at the annual from last year, and unless we are hiding them somewhere, or they are all picture shy, my count comes pretty close to the count on the vhsl website. I am not the worlds greatest at math, but I counted twice. I believe that the state government will cut wherever they can, but there is not a big conspiracy going on.

 

"never argue with an idiot. He will lower you to his level, and then beat you with his experience!"

[ghs73 157]

unfortunatly consolidation is a part of life and is not a bad thing when a school loses students. it costs money to keep a very small school open and unless the people of the community want to pay the cost of keeping a school open then i do not think that the rest of the residents of that county should pay to keep the school open and it should be consolidated with others in the county. this would help all students education by being able to offer more subjects to the students which they would not be able to get at a small school. and some of these are needed for college admission.

[ghs73 157]

poca. has not been consolidated yet due to pressure from the residents of the community on the school board and supervisors in tazewell county. but at some point this pressure will not help and it will happen. only a matter of time.

[broady 12]

I for one would like to move back up to AA. I also think PV needs to as well.

[DemonDeuce 10]

Damn this crap got deep... to deep for an ol football jock to understand... I thought a football game started with a kick-off... and thats what i think gman should do with this fool.. kick him off here.. I think I got dumber reading those post.. and I can't stand or understand anymore of that jibber-jabber... Just deal with it.. and tell so and so to stop tell you stuff to put on this board because hes got you all f'd-up ... lets talk footbal!!

--nothing else matters-- "one of my favorite songs"