Why is SWVA More Successful Than NETN?

[cityofRaven 2,444]

It's really simple geography...

 

 

Virginia is on top. 

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

It's really simple geography...

 

 

Virginia is on top.

#Winning

[RebRaider85 12]

It's really simple geography...

 

 

Virginia is on top.

That never helped in the FCA All Star game. Don't have time now to discuss. Will get back to this later.

[sixcat 2,919]

I think the main difference between SWVA and NETN is the inclusion of private schools.  If Oak Hill Academy could play for a VHSL championship that would change the success of many public schools in VA.  Science Hill girls had a great group a few years ago and rarely lost a game to anyone except Riverdale.  Riverdale happens to be a huge private school in west TN. 

To be fair, Oak Hill wouldn't be allowed to compete under the current Tennessee system either, even if it were available to them in Virginia.  Every school within Category III of the following link wouldn't be eligible for VHSL competition without some changes being made to enrollment and eligibility guidelines beforehand.

 

http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload/adm-privateschool-designation25.pdf

[JDHoss 249]

I think the main difference between SWVA and NETN is the inclusion of private schools.  If Oak Hill Academy could play for a VHSL championship that would change the success of many public schools in VA.  Science Hill girls had a great group a few years ago and rarely lost a game to anyone except Riverdale.  Riverdale happens to be a huge private school in west TN. 

 

Riverdale is actually public (Rutherford Co. schools), but otherwise, yes. I have trouble understanding the difference in TN between the private schools. Memfuss University School, Christian Brothers, MBA, BGA, Brentwood, Baylor, Ensworth, Webb, etc. all play in their own divisions in the TSSAA with other private schools (can play the public opponents as well in the regular season) and have their own playoffs, but schools like Goodpasture Christian, CPA, CAK, Knox Catholic, Grace Christian, Nashville Christian and several others participate with the public schools and are eligible for the TSSAA public school playoffs. 

 

To me, it would indeed be like allowing Oak Hill, Blue Ridge, Colligiate  and others to participate in the VHSL playoffs. 

[RebRaider85 12]

Riverdale is actually public (Rutherford Co. schools), but otherwise, yes. I have trouble understanding the difference in TN between the private schools. Memfuss University School, Christian Brothers, MBA, BGA, Brentwood, Baylor, Ensworth, Webb, etc. all play in their own divisions in the TSSAA with other private schools (can play the public opponents as well in the regular season) and have their own playoffs, but schools like Goodpasture Christian, CPA, CAK, Knox Catholic, Grace Christian, Nashville Christian and several others participate with the public schools and are eligible for the TSSAA public school playoffs.

 

To me, it would indeed be like allowing Oak Hill, Blue Ridge, Colligiate and others to participate in the VHSL playoffs.

The first group of schools you mention are able to recruit actively and offer scholarships. The second group of TN private schools cannot recruit nor offer scholarships other than a small discount that the catholic schools give to catholic families. They are still out 10 to 15k per year for tuition. As I said before this second group must play in a classification at 1.8 times their actual student count if they participate in the playoffs.

[RebRaider85 12]

If the geographic boundaries established for the championships attributed to SWVA were equally applied to NETN you would have have a lot more state champs on the TN side. You'd definitely have to include Jefferson County, Morristown, etc. Maybe even down to Sevier County. Also remember that the NETN schools have to get through Alcoa, Maryville, Knox Fulton and the like to even get to a state championship game.

[West12aaa 99]

http://www.vhsl-reference.com/bestprograms70s.cfm

 

 

Pick a decade.

[RebRaider85 12]

http://www.vhsl-reference.com/bestprograms70s.cfm

Wow. What a nice resource. I'm going to have to take a good look through that.

 

 

Pick a decade.

[Bearcat Bob 491]

After giving this some thought, the answer to the original question is fairly obvious, IMHO.  SWVA teams are mostly 1A or 2A.  Because of the population centers of Virginia, SWVA schools do not have to regularly play schools from the talent rich Tidewater/NOVA areas.  Most, not all schools, in those areas are 5A or 6A.  The few smaller schools that do exist in those areas, notably George Mason, usually lose what real talent they have to the privates and larger schools surrounding them. 

[sixcat 2,919]

After giving this some thought, the answer to the original question is fairly obvious, IMHO.  SWVA teams are mostly 1A or 2A.  Because of the population centers of Virginia, SWVA schools do not have to regularly play schools from the talent rich Tidewater/NOVA areas.  Most, not all schools, in those areas are 5A or 6A.  The few smaller schools that do exist in those areas, notably George Mason, usually lose what real talent they have to the privates and larger schools surrounding them. 

Exactly!  Tennessee divisional breakdowns are much more equal throughout the state which means the NETN schools have to face the talent rich programs in Nashville and Memphis. 

[RichlandsAlum 678]

After giving this some thought, the answer to the original question is fairly obvious, IMHO.  SWVA teams are mostly 1A or 2A.  Because of the population centers of Virginia, SWVA schools do not have to regularly play schools from the talent rich Tidewater/NOVA areas.  Most, not all schools, in those areas are 5A or 6A.  

 

Pretty much the point I was trying to make.  But Bearcat Bob did a much better job of it than I.

[falconfan1 125]

Maryville and Alcoa.  The two have combined for 27 state football titles.  I don't think that you have to look much harder than that.  Greeneville has been the closest state champ with back to back wins in 2010 and 2011.

[JDHoss 249]

 The second group of TN private schools cannot recruit nor offer scholarships other than a small discount that the catholic schools give to catholic families. They are still out 10 to 15k per year for tuition. 

 

Yes, they cannot recruit........***wink-wink-nudge-nudge***......or offer anything other than a "small" discount. Just like a couple of D-B staff members can't approach the son of one of my coworkers who was a pretty decent football player at Volunteer about coming to school at D-B. 

[West12aaa 99]

Would a change of philosophy on the football field promote a even playing field? Ground-pound mountain football over the spread system letting players get space.

 

Playing apples to apples vs Knox/Nash/mem is playing into their hands. Belfry has had success doing this but then again that's belfry. Swva heritage has always been build on this.

[RebRaider85 12]

Would a change of philosophy on the football field promote a even playing field? Ground-pound mountain football over the spread system letting players get space.

 

Playing apples to apples vs Knox/Nash/mem is playing into their hands. Belfry has had success doing this but then again that's belfry. Swva heritage has always been build on this.

That ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well against a spread team that can quick-strike on you. Look at Gate City - Sullivan South since they started playing 8 or 9 years ago. GC only won 1 time 31-28 during their last state championship run. One of the best football games I've ever seen. That would have been another loss however if not for a South fumble around the GC 4 yard line with a couple min to go.

[RiverRat24 274]

The GC/South series isnt a good comparison really. There hasn't been but one or two solid teams at GC since they started the series....one of those years being 2010. If the series had started in the mid 90s and lasted through the mid-2000s you would have seen a far cry different outcome in the series. It still amazes me GC picked up Harlan County, South, Bluefield, etc when they did. More times than not I think alot of those games just turned into some embarrassing beatdowns and wasn't really all that helpful for the Devils .....especially against Harlan. The talent level dropped off dramatically and yet the staff went and added those teams...just seemed like bad timing. The big thing I've noticed with GC over the years is the lack of defense. In the past, even when GC wasn't really that great they still normally had an impressive defense that would slow down a spread attack.

 

You never heard of very many Tennessee teams trying to pick up GC, Appy, or Powell Valley during the 90s and early 2000s. I wonder why that was? The only one that ever really agreed to play that i remember was Sullivan North.

[West12aaa 99]

Didnt gc spread it around quite a bit in those years?

[RiverRat24 274]

GC could throw the ball during those years....had some really good receivers in Seavers and Hubbard for example and some pretty good QBs in Hutchins, Shoemaker, and Spivey. But even with the deep threat GC was still a ground and pound team....had RBs Houseright, Kilgore, Byrd, Bentley, Wolfe, etc. If you go back a few years earlier you had Kelvin McConnell which may have been the best RB at GC if his health hadn't went south on him. Even though GC could throw the ball some during that span they was still predominantly a running attack.

[sixcat 2,919]

That ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well against a spread team that can quick-strike on you. Look at Gate City - Sullivan South since they started playing 8 or 9 years ago. GC only won 1 time 31-28 during their last state championship run. One of the best football games I've ever seen. That would have been another loss however if not for a South fumble around the GC 4 yard line with a couple min to go.

I disagree with the premise that spread is always better!  Galax grounded and pounded Essex into submission in the state semifinal.  Essex had a clear and decisive advantage in athletes but were beaten and battered by the end of the game.  Blanket statements never apply to any situation.  Spreads are harder to stop, yes.  That is why a lot of high school and college programs use it.  But to claim "that ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well" isn't a fair nor accurate statement.

[RebRaider85 12]

You never heard of very many Tennessee teams trying to pick up GC, Appy, or Powell Valley during the 90s and early 2000s. I wonder why that was? The only one that ever really agreed to play that i remember was Sullivan North.

Back in the 60's and 70's there were plenty of NETN teams playing SWVA teams. In 1979 or so was when all the school consolidation happened in NETN and those new schools with populations of 1500+ were really too big to be scheduling Powell Valley/Appy/GC. During that time most of the NETN schools were in the Big 10 conference and therefore only had one non-conference game each year so there wasn't even much flexibility in scheduling. In 1991 Kingsport annexed half of Norths territory so it got cut down to about 700 real quick and started scheduling teams in SWVA regularly. South didn't start playing GC until Souths population started dropping too. They will probably be between 700 to 800 students over the next couple years.

I'll be seeing a lot of SWVA games this year. Will be trying to make several trips to Union to see a kid I go to church with play his Senior year.

[RebRaider85 12]

I disagree with the premise that spread is always better! Galax grounded and pounded Essex into submission in the state semifinal. Essex had a clear and decisive advantage in athletes but were beaten and battered by the end of the game. Blanket statements never apply to any situation. Spreads are harder to stop, yes. That is why a lot of high school and college programs use it. But to claim "that ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well" isn't a fair nor accurate statement.

If you have to ground and pound game plan taking a long time to score each time and circumstances occur that result in you getting a couple scores down on the scoreboard then I think it is a pretty fair blanket statement to say that your ability to recover from that scenario is much more limited compared to a quick-strike type of team when time is running out in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

[sixcat 2,919]

If you have to ground and pound game plan taking a long time to score each time and circumstances occur that result in you getting a couple scores down on the scoreboard then I think it is a pretty fair blanket statement to say that your ability to recover from that scenario is much more limited compared to a quick-strike type of team when time is running out in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

I will agree that a ground and pound team can be limited in coming back from a deficit late in a game but that wasn't the premise of the original conversation.  The blanket statement was "ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well against a spread team".  That is a much different conversation than "circumstances occur that result in you getting a couple of scores down".

[West12aaa 99]

I will agree that a ground and pound team can be limited in coming back from a deficit late in a game but that wasn't the premise of the original conversation. The blanket statement was "ground/pound stuff doesn't work too well against a spread team". That is a much different conversation than "circumstances occur that result in you getting a couple of scores down".

can I put you on retainer?

 

With that said g n p needs to be complemented with a tough defense that can handle anything and allow the score to remain low.

 

I still would love to see Lee or tw come out in a wing t or double tight double wing and only focus on your 5 basic food groupa, toss, wedge, sweep, waggle, trap. I.e. Riverhead-ish

[sixcat 2,919]

can I put you on retainer?

 

With that said g n p needs to be complemented with a tough defense that can handle anything and allow the score to remain low.

 

I still would love to see Lee or tw come out in a wing t or double tight double wing and only focus on your 5 basic food groupa, toss, wedge, sweep, waggle, trap. I.e. Riverhead-ish

SWVA has always excelled at taking advantage of it's natural resources.  We have an abundance of big, tough, strong kids who work hard to achieve team goals.  It doesn't make sense to try to match NOVA or Tidewater athlete for athlete.  That is not to imply SWVA  doesn't have athletes and we don't need to throw the football on occasion to keep defenses honest.  And, yes, a stout defense can keep any offensive scheme in a game.