Teams who should play

[Deleted Account 5,203]

4 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

But the Magic didn't resort to cheating to win either.

Other than the NBA's draft rigging, which I'm fairly convinced was a thing for about 2 decades.  There were some WWE-like tactics at play in the Association.

 

Salem fans might have a point if the game were some 24-23 battle of titans.  Richlands dominated from the opening kickoff and won with relative ease.  1/8 inch didn't decide that one.

[thundercloud 179]

There wasn't suppose to be anybody in lowly SWVA that could hold a candle to them.  They thought they would come down here and walk all over us.

It's  called an excuse.

[Bluefield researcher 1,195]

Just now, thundercloud said:

There wasn't suppose to be anybody in lowly SWVA that could hold a candle to them.  They thought they would come down here and walk all over us.

It's  called an excuse.

It's called cheating.

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

4 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

But the Magic didn't resort to cheating to win either.

You honestly think 1/8 of an inch made ANY difference?! 

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

30 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

Other than the NBA's draft rigging, which I'm fairly convinced was a thing for about 2 decades.  There were some WWE-like tactics at play in the Association.

 

Salem fans might have a point if the game were some 24-23 battle of titans.  Richlands dominated from the opening kickoff and won with relative ease.  1/8 inch didn't decide that one.

Finally. Someone who gets it. It happened. But don't try to say an 1/8" made any difference when Richlands came out and smacked them in the mouth. That game wasn't close. 

[Bluefield researcher 1,195]

Just now, Ryan4VT said:

You honestly think 1/8 of an inch made ANY difference?! 

Yes, they make a difference. That is why the rule is in place.

And even if for some reason it didn't that is not the point anyway. It was premeditated cheating. It wasn't an accident. 

There are three things to this day that bother me about it. 1) The coach was rehired two years later. 2) The Richlands' players very well could have been the best and very well could have won but now THEY are the ones that have to hear people calling THEM cheaters when THEY themselves were just as much victims of the crime as Salem. 3) The gutless VHSL didn't make them forfeit.

You can rationalize cheating all you want but it is still cheating.

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

As if no other team in the state has ever tried to gain a small advantage. Every team in this area has watered down fields to slow down opponents before. I'm sure "illegal cleats" have been used by plenty of teams before. Richlands was just the ones who got caught. Those kids didn't cheat, a coach cheated. The town didn't cheat. The fan base didn't cheat. A single coach did. 

I'll be so happy when this crap finally dies. 

[thundercloud 179]

Was you there?  The cleats didn't make a difference. 

 

[TTownTigers 82]

11 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

but now THEY are the ones that have to hear people calling THEM cheaters when THEY themselves were just as much victims of the crime as Salem. 

You can rationalize cheating all you want but it is still cheating.

They also call them, "state champions".  The VHSL didn't make them forfeit because common sense was used.   There are concrete rules that must be followed, but concrete thinking in the face of common sense shouldn't always be the case. What I am getting at is........1/8th of a difference would not have made a difference in the way Richlands dominated the game after the first quarter, and the VHSL knew that.  Additionally, one must realize that if Richlands were to win that game (and they did) there was going to be an excuse REGARDLESS of whether there were cleats involved and that's exactly happened.  Before Richlands was found out regarding the cleats, the talks of "a needed investigation" into the Richlands fire department and watering down the field was already the first thing to come out of Salem.  It would NOT have ended whether cleats were involved or not.  There was going to be an excuse if Salem lost. Now certainly, the clear-cut cheating made the scandal bigger and it should have, but you can better believe, there was going to be a scandal regardless, if Salem were to lose that game.

Final example, Salem went to Lee High a few years earlier and lost in the state semi's.  They petitioned the VHSL to investigate Lee High into "muddying up" their field.  If Salem would have traveled to Amherst or Blacksburg and lost, it would have been chalked up as a loss and nothing more, but when losing in far SWVA, they simply couldn't stand it, and yes, there was exactly that, an excuse made for the loss.  With all of this written, that no way justifies what Richlands did.  That was a boneheaded move, but I don't call every player on Richlands team from 92 a cheater.  They had no clue about another 8th of an inch being in violation of cleats.  I call them players, state champions.  I was at that game and Richlands was clearly better.

P.S.  A little know fact many forget about is what the VHSL did to Richlands the next season.  Richlands was banned from the playoffs.  The 93 team in my opinion was equally as good as the 92 team by seasons end.  They were 7-3, but all three losses were close and nail bitingly close.   By season's end, that team was rolling. Richlands in fact, did receive punishment for their actions, and many fail to bring up the 1993 team and what may have been when discussing the cleats scandal.  If that 93 team could have made the playoffs, they could have made some noise and been trouble.  They dramatically improved from game 1 through 10.

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

I've always heard that the 93 team that was punished was probably more talented than the 92 team, but they had the hangover of the title the previous year and the fact they weren't making the playoffs over their head and they didn't gel for a while. At least that's what those who were around the program back then say. 

[parsons 178]

15 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

Yes, they make a difference. That is why the rule is in place.

And even if for some reason it didn't that is not the point anyway. It was premeditated cheating. It wasn't an accident. 

There are three things to this day that bother me about it. 1) The coach was rehired two years later. 2) The Richlands' players very well could have been the best and very well could have won but now THEY are the ones that have to hear people calling THEM cheaters when THEY themselves were just as much victims of the crime as Salem. 3) The gutless VHSL didn't make them forfeit.

You can rationalize cheating all you want but it is still cheating.

Preach on ... DV cheated everyone associated with the event.  I believe Richlands would probably have won without them, but any improved footing on a field in that shape would make some difference.

[TTownTigers 82]

7 hours ago, Ryan4VT said:

I've always heard that the 93 team that was punished was probably more talented than the 92 team, but they had the hangover of the title the previous year and the fact they weren't making the playoffs over their head and they didn't gel for a while. At least that's what those who were around the program back then say. 

The 93 team's losses were close.  They turned the ball over 5 times against P. Valley and had 200 more total yards, and lost 28-21.  The other loss was to a Graham team that was state championship good, but Graham ran into an out of this world Jefferson Forest team that was similar to a an Appo back then in the state semi's regarding talent.  They had talent all over the field.  I forget the other loss, but all were within the first 5 games.  By season's end, the lineplay of that team was better than the 92 team and they had developed a running game by then to account for the loss of Brannon Breeding.  I'm not saying they would have won the state title, but I absolutely believe they could have won the state title again. They were very, very talented, big and fast up front, but equally important, that 93 team improved from game one to game ten by leaps and bounds.

[jarhead24219 440]

i have never agreed with punishing kids the next year for crap the coaches pulled,the coaches being fired ,gate receipts for home games being forfeited and some kind of probation for the program.

[stu_bean 1,058]

1 hour ago, jarhead24219 said:

i have never agreed with punishing kids the next year for crap the coaches pulled,the coaches being fired ,gate receipts for home games being forfeited and some kind of probation for the program.

But then you still get into the same issue as college.  How can you punish the wrong doers without hurting the current ones that had nothing to do with it.  In the case of Richlands, at least it was the following year so many of the players were on the previous team.  If they had banned them for 10 years or 5 yrs later ban from the playoffs then you would be correct.  I agree fire the coach and blackball them if they knowingly and willingly did something.  As far as the gate, boosters (especially richlands or tazewell) will find a way to give that money back so that has no effect in my book.  If you strip the title then it's only a record that won't show 100 yrs from now.  Everybody "knows" who really won or what really happened as all the comments have proved in this thread.

[redtiger 1,740]

Could someone please provide film of this game?   Ive gotta see it!  

I need to see the Salem players slipping and sliding, covered in mud from being unable to stand and the Richlands players clean as whistles,, gliding up and down the field because of their extra long cleats.

 

Was it cheating? Without a doubt. Did it make a difference? Probably or the coach wouldn't have done it.   Did it determine the game?   Well see my sarcastic statement above.

 

P.S.   I would actually love to see a film lol   ive been hearing about this for 12 years now(since I joined the forum)

 

[The Great Escape 0]

I would love to see Giles and James Monroe (WV) play every season.  I think that would be a great interstate rivalry.  Galax vs Mt Airy (NC)  Grundy vs Pikeville (KY)  All of these should be natural rivalries that state lines should not get in the way of.  In my opinion.  

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

3 hours ago, The Great Escape said:

I would love to see Giles and James Monroe (WV) play every season.  I think that would be a great interstate rivalry.  Galax vs Mt Airy (NC)  Grundy vs Pikeville (KY)  All of these should be natural rivalries that state lines should not get in the way of.  In my opinion.  

Screw Giles and James Monroe ever playing again in football..no thank you

[The Great Escape 0]

29 minutes ago, Hokiebird7 said:

Screw Giles and James Monroe ever playing again in football..no thank you

I did not recall them playing at all, actually. Looking forward to watching GIles in person a few times this season.  Always entertaining.

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

1 hour ago, The Great Escape said:

I did not recall them playing at all, actually. Looking forward to watching GIles in person a few times this season.  Always entertaining.

Yeah back in the 90s....doubt we ever go back across that state line again anytime soon

[SW_VA_boy 492]

5 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said:

Screw Giles and James Monroe ever playing again in football..no thank you

I'll never forget Giles driving deep in JM territory in Lindside.  The back runs OOB to stop the clock. Looks up to make sure clock stopped and seen it still counting.  Turns to closest official giving the international sign for TO and screaming it.  Ref responded by turning his back and walking away.  If I'm thinking right that was the last time Giles played a regular season game at JM.  Reminiscent of Narrows' game with JM in Peterstown in 1994.  Sun dial used to clock their last drive in the last 2 minutes of the game.    Yeah, this probably wouldn't be a great idea for a series.

[Hoosyadaddy 22]

Just gonna say I think Jenkins-Rye Cove will be as good as Union-Richlands..

[Deleted Account 5,203]

9 hours ago, Hoosyadaddy said:

Just gonna say I think Jenkins-Rye Cove will be as good as Union-Richlands..

I would be very tempted to drive and watch that game.  I know Rye Cove has been a hot mess for a long time now, but they can't possibly be worse than Jenkins.  Can they?

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

11 hours ago, SW_VA_boy said:

I'll never forget Giles driving deep in JM territory in Lindside.  The back runs OOB to stop the clock. Looks up to make sure clock stopped and seen it still counting.  Turns to closest official giving the international sign for TO and screaming it.  Ref responded by turning his back and walking away.  If I'm thinking right that was the last time Giles played a regular season game at JM.  Reminiscent of Narrows' game with JM in Peterstown in 1994.  Sun dial used to clock their last drive in the last 2 minutes of the game.    Yeah, this probably wouldn't be a great idea for a series.

No we played there 2 years later because it was already in the contract but no way on earth I was going to watch that again..

We jumped out to a huge lead in first half the last time we played there and people that were there said same thing happened again....refs refused to let JM lose that game either...oh well that was a while back

 

And the AD loaded the refs in his van after the game I heard but didn't see...wouldn't surprise me at all

[Bluefield researcher 1,195]

1994 Giles  35  James Monroe  12  at Pearisburg

1995 Giles  06  James Monroe  07  at Lindside  OT

1996 Giles  42  James Monroe  19  at Pearisburg

1997 Giles  14  James Monroe  27  at Lindside

1998 Giles  14  James Monroe  38  at Pearisburg

[redtiger 1,740]

Those scores are... interesting. Theres a trend there

 

RC and Jenkins should be a WAR!!!  Neither team is very good but this should be a really tight matchup.