tornado99

I can’t speak to this specifically, but with a similar formula for success (recruiting or otherwise), it can be argued the greater Bluefield area possesses much more local talent than Western Tazewell, Russell, Buchanan, or even southern McDowell County. 
 
Specific criticism aside, I think Mance and staff consistently exceeding talent expectations is just as impressive as Palmer and company maximizing the talent at his disposal. (See other thread). 
 
While thinking about it, it really impresses me how Vaught won titles at Lexington and Richlands despite controversy.

Mance appears to be successful in building a struggling Loris program. A dream scenario, but a Graham-Bluefield series with Mance at the helm of the Beavers would be interesting. No slight to Simon, he’s had the luxury of “out-talenting” most WV schools.

I can’t speak to this specifically, but with a similar formula for success (recruiting or otherwise), it can be argued the greater Bluefield area possesses much more local talent than Western Tazewell, Russell, Buchanan, or even southern McDowell County. 
 
Specific criticism aside, I think Mance and staff consistently exceeding talent expectations is just as impressive as Palmer and company maximizing the talent at his disposal. (See other thread). 
 
While thinking about it, it really impresses me how Vaught won titles at Lexington and Richlands despite controversy.

To emphasize the point, I don’t think the coaching strength is just limited to X’s and O’s either. The physicality developed by the coaching staff in the offseason and during games makes a difference. I can’t speak to the other individual coaches because I don’t know them, but Dennis Palmer certainly brings an old-school mindset. Not to beat a dead horse since I don’t know how active the coaches are, but the success consistently brings in outside talent to help reload, so the cupboard is never bare. 

To emphasize the point, I don’t think the coaching strength is just limited to X’s and O’s either. The physicality developed by the coaching staff in the offseason and during games makes a difference. I can’t speak to the other individual coaches because I don’t know them, but Dennis Palmer certainly brings an old-school mindset. Not to beat a dead horse since I don’t know how active the coaches are, but the success consistently brings in outside talent to help reload, so the cupboard is never bare. 

To emphasize the point, I don’t think the coaching strength is just limited to X’s and O’s either. The physicality developed by the coaching staff in the offseason and during games makes a difference. I can’t speak to the other individual coaches because I don’t know them, but Dennis Palmer certainly brings an old-school mindset. Not to beat a dead horse since I don’t know how active the coaches are, but the success consistently brings in outside talent to help reload, so the cupboard is never bare. 

I think Tazewell will be very solid now, and in the short term. I just don’t see anyone consistently competing with Graham during this time. I only mention this due to the potential ceiling of frustration in not getting over the Region D hump and/or potential student transfer issues in the future. I’m picturing consistent 6-4 to 9-1 regular seasons and falling just short. 
I’m not saying that as a certainty, just a potential obstacle. Kids nowadays would transfer simply to win a state title. 
 
I imagine, but don’t know, that there is a similar dynamic around schools such as Union (Lee and other Wise County schools), or for different reasons possibly Honaker in 1A, if they consistently win in the future and Richlands or Lebanon doesn’t get their house in order.

In Class 2, I lean more towards Graham is that good. The limiting factor for most schools on this end of the state traditionally is speed, although occasionally teams have just enough. Graham has both speed and physicality at each position group.
In Class 1, this area is traditionally very strong, BUT the Riverheads juggernaut killed hopes for state titles. At least, they don’t have that problem.

In Class 2, I lean more towards Graham is that good. The limiting factor for most schools on this end of the state traditionally is speed, although occasionally teams have just enough. Graham has both speed and physicality at each position group.
In Class 1, this area is traditionally very strong, BUT the Riverheads juggernaut killed hopes for state titles. At least, they don’t have that problem.

I’m one of those, admittedly, that gives Bluefield the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn’t be surprised if close, but also wouldn’t be surprised if 2 Td margin. I don’t know if a 10-14 point margin where the G-men dominate the line of scrimmage is “big”, but that is my prediction. Bluefield seemingly always has athleticism that creates the big play. That’s what usually separates them from most. During the losses, I see them pushed around by more physical teams, like Independence and Graham last year, that have just enough speed to break 1-2 big plays themselves. Game 1 last year was indeed close; but watching it, I felt like Graham kept it close themselves and I had no doubts about the better team had they played a series. If they played 5, I’m taking Graham in 4….but it only takes 1.

I’m one of those, admittedly, that gives Bluefield the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn’t be surprised if close, but also wouldn’t be surprised if 2 Td margin. I don’t know if a 10-14 point margin where the G-men dominate the line of scrimmage is “big”, but that is my prediction. Bluefield seemingly always has athleticism that creates the big play. That’s what usually separates them from most. During the losses, I see them pushed around by more physical teams, like Independence and Graham last year, that have just enough speed to break 1-2 big plays themselves. Game 1 last year was indeed close; but watching it, I felt like Graham kept it close themselves and I had no doubts about the better team had they played a series. If they played 5, I’m taking Graham in 4….but it only takes 1.

I’m one of those, admittedly, that gives Bluefield the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn’t be surprised if close, but also wouldn’t be surprised if 2 Td margin. I don’t know if a 10-14 point margin where the G-men dominate the line of scrimmage is “big”, but that is my prediction. Bluefield seemingly always has athleticism that creates the big play. That’s what usually separates them from most. During the losses, I see them pushed around by more physical teams, like Independence and Graham last year, that have just enough speed to break 1-2 big plays themselves. Game 1 last year was indeed close; but watching it, I felt like Graham kept it close themselves and I had no doubts about the better team had they played a series. If they played 5, I’m taking Graham in 4….but it only takes 1.

I don’t know how big, but I sort of agree with this take. Bluefield always has athletes, especially when compared to most of WV and SWVA, but I think lately most of us probably are deceived by past reputation as basis for overestimating the Beavers. 

I don’t remember the details, but Honaker and Richlands, first and second respectively, were likely a couple of the earliest in the area. Both of them were facilitated by local business EMATS, which is located at Claypool Hill. At the time, I believe the owner had a son playing for Honaker. They sponsored a game and trophy called the Clinch River Classic for several years. Due to those factors, I’m certain the cost was likely much lower to install due to donations of time and labor, but not sure of replacement. 
 
I’m not certain of long term ramifications. I touched on it in another post where sixcat referred to a ton of research via google that is often funded by opposite sides. I don’t know of the accuracy of the research or statistics. The turf is nice for speed and maintaining, although it is noticeably hotter in the summer. I’m thankful for the kindness that allows us to have the turf.
On the flip side, I am personally a traditionalist that believes in overcoming the elements, such as rain/mud that creates an opportunity for sometimes strength and willpower occasionally overcoming speed and athleticism. Ultimately, I lean towards whatever has the least injury risk. It “seems” that there is more knee and ankle injuries since the turf installation; however, I have no statistics to back that up and could be simply flawed perception or recency bias.

I hesitate to rank due to lack of information and unwillingness to sell short the young guys returning. I will only say based upon what is returning, Graham and Tazewell “should” be 1 and 2 respectively. Everyone else lost a bunch of talent and experience as far as I know with 1-2 key returnees each, so the rest are in the same boat.
I would lean closest to Iceman’s list, but based on confidence or optimism that the kids and coaches are working hard.

Turf is nice; however, I prefer grass as well.

Not getting into the particulars, but obviously more talent is going, than coming. This is a problem, no matter the reason.
Is this recent phenomenon, just that, primarily fallout from the incident described, or a deeper and potentially ongoing problem? 
 
There will always be business decisions by parents on the costs/benefits of bigger school, better competition, more exposure vs smaller school, more playing time, more opportunity to stand out. (This doesn’t necessarily apply to many of the kids mentioned who likely contribute and benefit no matter the school.)

Thanks for the input. Likely unrelated, and probably more linked to geography, but it’s ironic that the beneficiaries are relatively pass-heavy offenses. 
 
Admittedly, I prefer a conservative run-based approach. As the years pass, i accept that fewer and fewer hold that same preference.

I thought he retired due to health reasons, but if so that explains the “whatever you have to do” part.  
 
The Galax transformation during his tenure was very impressive in football.

As a fan and supporter that doesn’t know the details, simply stated, the recent trend is disturbing. The main question remains, what is the remedy? (Besides the obvious cure of winning.) 
That might be a question better answered by Tazewell, Gate City, or other teams who appear to have turned the corner after dark times. (I excluded Graham due to the obvious riches in talent that simply required the right man in charge.) Tiger 2000 and SwvaOG paint a very accurate picture. I certainly cannot blame Honaker, Lebanon, nor any of the beneficiaries for whatever the issues are at home.

Honaker plays for Class 1 state title.

Honaker plays for Class 1 state title.

Thank you all for all your dedication to providing us a wonderful platform to discuss sports. 

Palmer’s coaching staff has grown since that time as well which explains the evolution. There are more coaches with more perspectives. In some cases, I think he leads by getting out of the way. This is not a negative. I think it’s wise to let the experts do their thing and operate according to their expertise.
 It also helps with the talent level increasing at GHS. You can do more with more and greater athletes at different positions. I can see it as a good problem when you only have to worry about not messing it up. 

Thanks for posting. Amen and Happy 2023.