well...I'm officially voting for Obama now...grrrrr...

[bluefieldRocks 14]

Anything you want to discuss... pick the topic and ill begin.

 

Why do we park in driveways, but drive in parkways?

[Lance 228]

From my buddy Baird...lol...words of...well...wisdom of some sort I suppose?

 

 

The real Sarah Palin..

 

 

I sat up all night last night researching Sarah Palin. Since she didn't say ANYTHING in her speech about how to fix America, I figured I'd look up her record and see what she really stands for, considering last night she just came off as an ignorant, condescending person, who can't do anything but spout out insults about community organizers and the like.

 

First off, Palin is from Washilla, AK. A small town? Way bigger than the one I came from. Sarah Palin was Mayor of this town from 1996-2002. She left this town almost bankrupt and it still hasn't completely recovered.

 

So now she's Governor since 2006. Let's look at her issues and controversies.

 

First. Let's start out with Gay Rights. Palin doesn't believe in them. She claims that she doesn't know if it's a choice or something that comes about at birth. Well, it doesn't matter if it's a choice or if it's by birth, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS. With that said, let's look back to the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America which says, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." So, ALL MEN are equal. There are no exceptions.

 

The issue of gay rights came up in Alaska last year in 2007. The Alaskan Supreme court ordered that benifits MUST be offered to all workers.

 

"The legislature, however, had other ideas. Instead of easily passing the benefits plan, they instead passed two (unconstitutional) bills. HB 4001 would have prohibited the state commissioner from taking action by the court's deadline. HB 4002 would have set up a nonbinding vote on whether citizens believe the state should put a constitutional amendment to thwart the court's ruling on the 2008 ballot. One legislator, Representative Mike Coghill, is such a bigot that he's proposing that all state employees should lose their benefits so those benefits don't have to be extended to domestic partners." (Browning)

 

"Palin vetoed HB 4001. Before you get too excited, she signed HB 4002 - to put benefits up to a non-binding vote of the people. Palin also stated that while she believed in HB 4001, her advisors had told her it was unconstitutional. Rather than go through the court costs, she vetoed the bill. " (Browning)

 

The Alaskan Supreme Court ruled that Alaska MUST offer benifits to all state workers, straight or gay. But instead of doing so, Palin simply passed a nonbinding referendum on those benifits. It still hasn't been worked out to this day.

 

Palin also supported a 1998 bill to include the ban of same-sex couples into the state constitution. Which is stupid. Remember that marriage is a union of two people in love, which EVERYONE has a right to. Changing the constitution to ban two people from entering a union like so many other people is a sign of BIGOTRY and IGNORANCE. I don't care what you believe, but you don't make stupid things like that a Law. There are many other fish to fry.

 

Palin is under investigation for firing a public official who refused to fire Palin's ex-brother-in-law from the state police force. Palin has ACKNOWLEDGED that a member of her staff made a call to pressure the official and that he suggested he was speaking for her. She also admitted that the call could be interpretted as pressure to fire the state trooper.

 

This is a gross use of authority to punish a state trooper who was locked in a custody battle with her sister.

 

Palin is also EXTREMELY Anti-Choice. For the record, I don't like abortion. I think you should be educated to be safe. HOWEVER, with that said, I do not think that some old white MAN in Washington should tell a WOMAN what to do with her body. It is a right to CHOICE. A Freedom of CHOICE. But Palin doesn't agree with that, even in the cases of RAPE and INCEST. So if she wants to set women's rights back 50 years, and you vote for it, don't be suprised with other rights start to disappear over time.

 

Let's talk economic polocies. Sarah Palin rans on a platform of cutting spending in AK. However, it didn't work in her favor. She cut the construction budget of AK by almost 250 million dollars affecting almost 300 local projects. Thus putting many people out of a job. That doesn't sound very blue collar. She also opposed the closing of an un-profitable dairy farm which ended up closing anyway costing the taxpayers millions of dollars.

 

Sarah Palin ran on a BUILD THAT BRIDGE platform when she ran for governor. This is the BRIDGE TO NOWHERE issue. She fought for the US Government to add an earmark for a grant, stating that the bridge was ESSENTIAL to the economy. Well, the government finally added the earmark for a grant that AK could use at it's discretion. Once that occured Palin cancelled work on the bridge, stating, "Thanks but no thanks," to the bigwigs in washington. Reformer? No. She kept the money. So American taxpayers have paid for a bridge to nowhere. Good job.

 

Palin also supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). Even McCain opposses that. It's dumb. But drilling for oil, instead of finding alternative means, is dumb as I stated last night.

 

For you guys that like fuzzy animals, Palin opposes putting the Polar Bear and the Beluga Whale on the endangered list because it interferes with oil drilling and what have you.

 

She also doesn't believe that humans have caused any part of global warming.

 

For someone that acts like an educated and strong woman, I'm seeing nothing but a condescending bigot. The same old thing from the Republicans. And if McCain chose her to win over Clinton supports, HOW DARE HE! Does he think the women of this nation are that stupid? Does he think woman supported Clinton just because she was a woman?? Hillary Clinton is strong, experienced, and open minded toward the future. She would have made a great leader for this country. Palin, YOU ARE NO SENATOR CLINTON!

 

So women, use your minds. You know she's not worth a damn. YOU KNOW IT. Do you want rich WHITE old men making the decisions about what to do with your body??? Taking hard working jobs away from your husbands???

 

MORE OF THE LAST EIGHT YEARS!? You can't really want that? Can you?

[tbgfan 855]

Lance, I believe you are a very intelligent person and have a lot of creativity and I appreciate all you do on this board as an adm, making it possible for a sports fan, such as myself, to be able to read and post. I, must say, I am quite surprised at the animosity you showed in your post toward Sarah Palin. It's apparent you don't agree with her views and think little of what she has accomplished as a mayor and governor of her state, but I must disagree, not argue, your assessment of her. I personally believe, to the majority of people she came across as genuine, spirited and ready to commit herself to work for the American people and the values that most Americans share.

 

Lance, I am a Christian and I have tried faithfully to live that life for over 20 years. To me being a Christian is not just a word, it's a lifestyle. God gave us a GPS to guide us here in our daily walk, the Bible and that is the foundation that governs the decisions I make. The points you brought up of same sex marriage and abortion are what you consider rights people are entitled to. With all due respect to you, what some deem as rights, God calls sin and he and his word are the ultimate authority. Proverbs 14:12 states "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

 

I hope you do not take this as me being arrogant or condesending, because that is not my intent, only to share with you, without malice or anger, my convictions and why I feel McCain and Palin are the best candiates for America.

[wave316 64]

Lance, I believe you are a very intelligent person and have a lot of creativity and I appreciate all you do on this board as an adm, making it possible for a sports fan, such as myself, to be able to read and post. I, must say, I am quite surprised at the animosity you showed in your post toward Sarah Palin. It's apparent you don't agree with her views and think little of what she has accomplished as a mayor and governor of her state, but I must disagree, not argue, your assessment of her. I personally believe, to the majority of people she came across as genuine, spirited and ready to commit herself to work for the American people and the values that most Americans share.

 

Lance, I am a Christian and I have tried faithfully to live that life for over 20 years. To me being a Christian is not just a word, it's a lifestyle. God gave us a GPS to guide us here in our daily walk, the Bible and that is the foundation that governs the decisions I make. The points you brought up of same sex marriage and abortion are what you consider rights people are entitled to. With all due respect to you, what some deem as rights, God calls sin and he and his word are the ultimate authority. Proverbs 14:12 states "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

 

I hope you do not take this as me being arrogant or condesending, because that is not my intent, only to share with you, without malice or anger, my convictions and why I feel McCain and Palin are the best candiates for America.

 

I second this , also think it is important for believers in Christ to pray for our nation ,our youth ,our marriages and those who are in authority that we may live in a quite and peacable life.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

First off, Sarah Palin is a strong woman. I dont think anyone can disagree with that. secondly, evryone knows Sarah Palin poses a signifigant threat to the Democratic Party, which is why the above outburst happened.

 

And well, on the bridge to nowhere Palin had a change of heart... Isnt that what Obama does all the time? (Oil, Iraq, Iran, Fifth Amendment, etc.)

 

As for Oil, I hate to break it to you, but right now our only choice is drill. Yes, we need alternate fuels in the future desperately. but right now all we can do is start driling. Palin is right on that and ANWR, which is a small area that actually requires drilling, and Id say she speaks for the people in her state when she wants to drill, im sure they do to for the jobs and money not to mention the well being of our country.

 

As for the Polar Bears, the Inuits were given 25% more hunting tags for Polar Bears because their numbers are increasing. So why should they be endangered?

 

Which leads me to Global Warming, which is still a highly disputed claim, and more and more people are realizing that its not happening. There are too many facts to disprove it for anyone to freak out about it. Just like the bird flu.

 

Edit: Sarah Palin's speech was spectacular. In fact, the democrats, yes they called themselves democrats, loved it. They said she absolutely blew them away and captured the hearts of America. dont know what happened in who ever wrote this's pointof view.

 

2nd. Sarah Palin comes from a town of less than 7,000 people. Thats small.

 

Im not sure where you got your info about Palin running the city bankrupt... she actually got them to recieve over 27 million dollars from the US goverment. Also, the only reason she wasnt reelected was because of term limits. She would have won easily. She actually cut her own salary as well. There are no mentions of debt anywhere besides blogging rumors.

 

Everything else except for the unneccessary mud slinging about her character relates to her beliefs which come from the bible as do mine. Your beliefs may be different, but that doesnt make either one right just because they are one person's beliefs or the majority. I applaud her for taking her beliefs.

Edited September 5, 2008 by BEAVERTAIL
why not?

[Lance 228]

that last post is not what I said, it's a cut and paste from my friends Baird's blog...just thought you guys would have some comments on it...they are not my thoughts or words at all...just fyi in case you missed that part.

 

Also, I watched McCain's speech tonight and I liked a lot of what he had to say...I really do NOT like Palin...but I like McCain a lot more tonight than I did earlier today...I would say i am back to being undecided as to who I will vote for because I do NOT like Joe Biden either...I can't see either of these dingbats running the show in 8 years if the current president runs two terms and then turns it over to them.

[Lance 228]

Some more insight from my buddy Baird...lmao...you guys will LOVE this one I'm sure:

 

Wednesday, September 03, 2008

 

I can’t take this anymore...

 

 

I was going to stay out of it this year but I just can't.

 

If you are easily offended, please go no further.

 

I'm watching the RNC, and now I want to move out of this country. I cannot believe what I'm seeing. A room of people who are blindly steering this country down a furthering redneck agenda. And thunderous applause follows. I'm watching people smile as this country dies.

 

Let me begin with my opinion. And remember, it is just that. But I will back it with facts, that you can research yourself.

 

1. Let's talk economy. Tonight I heard from Rudy Guliani that McCain would lower taxes, thus boosting the economy. History is NOT on his side however. The last major recession we had was at the end of the Reagan administration, and a certain Republican VP, who was running for office, basically had the same idealism. "NO NEW TAXES." It didn't work. Why? Because it doesn't fix the problem that families aren't making enough money to pay thier bills. It doesn't create jobs. It's a "looks good on TV" bandaid.

 

So let's talk about what will create jobs, OR just bring jobs back to America. In the last 8 years we've seen American companies falter to the international community. More jobs are going overseas, AND as a matter of fact, ownership of American companies is going overseas. Why? Huge tax breaks for big companies to outsource, the weak American dollar, etc.

 

Republicans and some Democrats hate the idea that we even ASSOCIATE with other countries. They're idiots, but that's how they think. So why send all your money over there? Why do we, as Americans, smile about sending our money overseas if we CLAIM to hate those "lousy foriegners" so much? Hypocracy. And EVERYDAY you send your money to the people you claim to hate. I've heard rednecks say "WE HATE THEM DAMN MOOSLIMS," while they pumping all that money right over to them!

 

What could creat jobs? I'm no expert but I know that CHALLENGE creates jobs. Challenge creates the NEED which creates jobs. Drilling for more oil is a bandaid. It is not the answer. So when I see people, who obviously aren't uneducated, screaming DRILL NOW, I cringe. Here's why.

 

I'm not super-religious. In fact, I've got my own religion, but if they Bible says one thing that IS A FACT, it's that the Middle East is the "land of milk and honey." Not the United States. We will never become dependant by just using our own oil as a bandaid. What will we do in 150 years, or sooner, when it's gone? Go back and ask the Middle East for more?

 

WE MUST BREAK OUR DEPENDANCY ON OIL! Not just foriegn. We must "challenge" ourselves to find clean, re-newable sources to run this country and it's economy. Thus, you not only break your dependance on foriegn oil but you break your need to worry about it for many many hundreds of years, if not forever. But that's a challenge, and it will take years to come up with those technologies and change over. And what's that create? JOBS, and lots of JOBS. It also boostes the US as an inovator of modern technology and puts us ahead of the curve again. Because I don't know if you guys know this or not (and a lot of Republicans are in denial about it) but this country is NOT in the lead when it comes to Technology. Europe and Japan have surpassed us.

 

We must move forward and not back. However, politicians know what makes people happy. DRILL MORE. But what makes the people happy isn't always the best choice. Unfortuneately, the people will never figure that out and keep voting for someone who thinks that drilling for more oil will decrease the price of gas. They thought Ethonal was going to do that too. It did not. And the price of corn went up, and thus, the price of groceries.

 

We must challenge ourselves! Challenge creates jobs and technology that put America at the forfront, not in the back seat. Regardless of whether the Dems or Reps get in.. That's the key. No more oil. No more sending US dollars overseas for energy. And, it's already been proven that when a big oil nation, like the United States, drops it's dependancy on oil the price comes down. Now that's not just good for us, but for the rest of the world!!

 

Did you know there are taxs breaks for outsourcing? A company saves money by hiring an international force. Remove those taxbreaks! Maybe even give them to a company who hires within the US. Keep American money IN AMERICA.

 

 

 

2. Domestic Safety and our enemies abroad. If I hear another "DEFEAT IT!" come out of the Republicans, I'm going to be sick. WAR should always be a last resort. Don't get me wrong, I favor a strong military, but I don't favor their deployment for something that could have been fixed through diplomacy.

 

First off, evil is not a thing to DEFEAT. And it's SUBJECTIVE! I don't think that sex out of wedlock is evil.. but I bet someone out there does. SO LET'S DEFEAT IT. Stupid. Let's educate it. I mean, EDUCATION works! Instead of teaching Abstainence (which is a waste of taxpayers money AND stupid), let's teach it's best to wait but protect yourself if it happens. Sarah Palin is the biggest advocate for abstainence... didn't work did it?

 

But I digress. When the people of the United States are afraid we of everything we vote for someone who uses force. Example, GW and John McCain. Force is not always the answer. Part of that is the media's fault. But I'm telling you that the chances of being in a terrorist attack is slim to none. Now, we need to stay on top of terrorism. And we do need to be tough on it, but we need to strengthen our diplomacy to win. We need to get everyone involved to stop terrorism. Not just do it ourselves. Also, we need not break international and national laws by invading a country because they have WMD's and a tie to Al-Queda.. or did it?

 

However, the media shifted attention on that. When we went in, it was because there were WMD's and Iraq was a threat to the US. Now, it's like that never existed.. and we're there to spread democracy. How easily we forget. Don't get me wrong. I have friends in Iraq.. I do. But I wish they would have been in Afganistan canning Osama Bin Laden. But that isn't their fault. It is not the soldiers fault. It's the leadership (Dems and Reps) who are OUT OF TOUCH.

 

Speaking of fear, we watched our liberties swept out from under us because we were scared. We allowed the Patriot act to be passed. The Patriot Act is a violation of your liberties as given to you in the CONSTITUTION. Or have we just tossed that? We allowed our phones to be tapped across the country, and clapped and smiled about it.

 

That is how liberty dies. With THUNDEROUS applause.

 

One last note on security. People my age may not remember the time of the USSR, but do your history. The USSR was our biggest enemy and the Cold War was a time of true fear. Not from some lame suicide bomber but from a major, all out, nuclear attack. The military wasn't VOLUNTEER back then.

 

Well, as anyone who has kept up with the news knows, Russia is renewing it's aggressiveness. That is an issue that must be dealt with carefully and intelligently. Should Russia decided to ever go back to it's old ways, it is a possibility that the Cold War days of ICBM's being pointed at each other everyday, and duck and cover warnings may come back. The Russians are NOT Islamic or International terrorists with a few guns.

 

We CANNOT be so arrogent to think that Russia is a push over.

 

So, we don't know what fear is. If I hear another Republican say that McCain will deal with something with force, I will puke.

 

Now, I don't want everyone to think that this is an Anti-McCain rant. McCain, if elected, could turn back into the Maverick he once was. But right now he's doing this republican redneck stuff to get votes. That may be a possibility. He's made great middle ground decisions in the past. Even if he didn't want to recognize MLK day (being a racist is a republican stereotype.. but I won't say it.. hahaha). And he has probably made the WORST pick for VP, even though she'll grab the sympathy vote and the redneck vote. But McCain, if elected, could turn his back on this and go back to being a maverick. So this is not against him.. I understand he's doing things to get elected.

 

This is a rant against isolationist leadership, ignorant agendas, and a redneck veiw of the earth. It just so happens that MORE Republicans fit this bill.

 

Back to the issue at hand. We must rally the world to our cause and get the people behind it WITH FACTS, not fiction, if we hope to win wars or push our idealisms. I'm not big on pushing idealisms but Republicans are.. however, they don't want anyone with them and they fight with lies. I don't get it!?

 

We're safe in this country right now.. trust me. We're safe. 9-11 taught us a lesson we'll never forget and I don't think any President, no matter who it is, will let that happen again. So STOP cringing everytime you see a muslim. They have EVERY right to be here (if they are here legally) as you do.

 

Remember, we stole this country. We murdered hundreds of thousands of Native Americans to get it. And we built it on the backs of African American slaves. What right did we have? Manifest Destiny was an excuse and a joke and if you believe in it, you are clearly a psycopath.

 

All men are created equal. And all people have a right to come and live in this country.

 

I have said before that I've always felt that Republicans were old, racist, rich white guys. And when I heard Guliani say that Dems didn't want to say "ISLAMIC TERRORISTS" so he'd do it, I was appauled! Let's stereotype, everyone! YAY!! CLAP CLAP CLAP. The reason Dems won't say "Islamic Terrorist," in my guess, is because they don't want to stereotype a race as terrorists. Some Islmaic people are good, hard working, Americans. And, there are other kinds of terrorists out there. Remember OK City? Those weren't Muslims.. They were White Racist Americans.

 

STOP LIVING IN FEAR!

 

I won't get into issues such as morals, and abortion, gay rights, and what have you because those have religious implications. And I'll be frank that I believe that the Puritans ruined this country. I believe that women have the right to choose, and gay and lesbians have the same rights as everyone else. BUT, I believe that you have the right to believe what you believe AS DESIGNATED IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. So I'm not going to go into those issues.

 

I just wanted to express my beliefs on the major issues that everyone can get behind. Everyone should have a job. Everyone should have the best education. Everyone should have access to healthcare (a position I changed my mind about once I was further educated about it, but that's another blog). America should be self dependant on energy and money should go to Americans that worked hard for it, not the foriegn companies that the rednecks "hate so much." America should be looked up to in the International Community. America should lead the world in technology. America should fix it's ties to the rest of the world and be an INTELLIGENT and Just country.

 

WAR, like a gun or a nuclear bomb, should be the absolute LAST OPTION! PERIOD.

 

These are the things I believe. I love this country and I want it to lead the world again before China overtakes our economy, if it already hasn't. I want it to be the just and intelligent leadership that the world demands.

 

We must change our way of thinking. We need to reach out and help our fellow man and stop chasing the almighty dollar.

 

We must do these things.

 

Sorry this was so long, if you got this far, I hope you got something out of it. I hope it made you think. It'll make most of you mad... but if it does make you mad.. THINK first.. then if you're still mad.. that's ok I guess. :) You have an opinion too.

 

Thanks again for listening.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

With all due respect to you, what some deem as rights, God calls sin and he and his word are the ultimate authority. Proverbs 14:12 states "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

 

So everything that is considered sin should be made law and then amended to the constitution? What would be the punishment for cursing, how much for wanting something your neighbor has? It is all sin, and it is all person morals. Talk about government control... you all want the government to make us all good Christians. There comes a time people have to make their own decisions. There are many religions in this country (remember the first amendment), so why should all of our laws be based on Christian morals? Just throwing my .02 cents out there. :)

[trublue 939]

America....a great place that allows freedom of choice as guaranteed by our Constitution....but, the laws of the land, also, have boundaries. God is the same way.....He allows you freedom to choose..... but He has boundaries ....it's ALL your choice. There's an old adage....never argue politics or religion, but certainly we can/should discuss it. We ALL have been given that freedom to choose by our great country and by our God.....the choice is yours. What a great country.....what a great God.

No profound words from this brain .....just an innate choice within my heart.

[clodhopper 10]

I know more about the issues than most any other voter around. You can sit there and talk about the right wing media, but you should look at the left wing media.

 

I DONT RESEARCH? Trust me, I have been challenged many times on this board and every time I prove that what I say does have meaning to it.

 

I called Obama a socialist, not for the first time, and I proved I knew what I was saying. Your facism claim was left unwarranted.

 

Moving on, I dont really care about abortion. Yes, of course I am pro-life, but there are many more other things I want to see happen that need to be done in this country. These issues, such as gas prices, the war on terror, illegal immigration, healthcare, the tax system, and overall how our next president will act in times of distress.

 

Now, not only do I disagree with Obama on almost every issue, I dont believe in the man. For various reasons obviously. If you want to know ask, ill dig up some former posts for you.

 

The thing that drives me crazy, is democrats are always give me this, give me that. GO OUT AND EARN IT. No one deserves anything for being born, especially in America where the oppurtunities are endless.

 

Trust me, im informed.

 

http://swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11680&highlight=beavertail

 

http://swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11725&highlight=beavertail

 

http://swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11910

 

Anything you want to discuss... pick the topic and ill begin.

 

It appears to me that you only think you know more than most voters know! I've worked at the same job for 27 years and have NEVER been given anything. As a matter of fact I know more Republicans on the draw than Democrats......a lot more. Republicans LOVE handouts as long as they're the ones getting them. Democrats are asking for handouts? You mean like the 92 billion dollars gave to corporations in subsidies? that kind of handout? I know it would be hard for Exxon/Mobile to make it without their "handout" as would most poor corporations.

 

YES, George Bush and dick are every bit as much fascist as you say Obama is a socialist.

 

Fascist: A reactionary or dictatorial person, I believe that pretty much sums up Dubya.

 

BUT, we are interested in the same issues, probably not too far apart.

 

You better believe I'm interested in gas prices, gas was $1.46 a gallon when Bush and Dick took office, funny how it doubled after 2 oil men were given the office. Just a coincidence I guess?

 

You can't have a war on terrorism, terrorism is an ideology, how do you declare war on an ideology? I am concerned about terrorism though, same as you. I have a problem understanding how 16 Saudis carried out the 9/11 murders, a Saudi masterminded it and we attacked Iraq? Apparently George has a problem with geography or could it have been the close ties between the Bush family and the Saudi Royal family?

 

I too am concerned about taxes, George's tax plan has worked out great (if you're a millionaire) not so great for the working class. But not to worry, we'll just pass the massive debt it caused on to our kids and grandkids, should'nt concern us.

 

We probably agree on illegal immigration, George, Obama and McCain all have really handled that situation well, as has the Houses of Representatives.......do NOTHING, we might get their votes.

 

As far as how they act in times of distress, how do you measure that? I believe either will do better than the fella we have now. You know, "we're under attack", sit around seven mins. while reading "My pet goat".........picked a real winner in that catagory last time.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

America....a great place that allows freedom of choice as guaranteed by our Constitution....but, the laws of the land, also, have boundaries. God is the same way.....He allows you freedom to choose..... but He has boundaries ....it's ALL your choice. There's an old adage....never argue politics or religion, but certainly we can/should discuss it. We ALL have been given that freedom to choose by our great country and by our God.....the choice is yours. What a great country.....what a great God.

No profound words from this brain .....just an innate choice within my heart.

 

Well said. I’m neither Republican nor Democrat; I tend to agree with views from both sides. However, I can’t see the argument that Republicans have over government control, when they want the government to tell people what to do with their own bodies and who they can marry.

 

Also, the Republicans want to force, young, unwed mothers to have children, but then they want to do away with government assistance that helps care for and feed these children? How do you explain that one?

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

 

YES, George Bush and dick are every bit as much fascist as you say Obama is a socialist.

 

Fascist: A reactionary or dictatorial person, I believe that pretty much sums up Dubya.

 

BUT, we are interested in the same issues, probably not too far apart.

 

QUOTE]

 

still no facts to support it.

[Guest JJBrickface]

Well said. I’m neither Republican nor Democrat; I tend to agree with views from both sides. However, I can’t see the argument that Republicans have over government control, when they want the government to tell people what to do with their own bodies and who they can marry.

 

Also, the Republicans want to force, young, unwed mothers to have children, but then they want to do away with government assistance that helps care for and feed these children? How do you explain that one?

 

 

Force them to have children? If the government FORCED the male and female to have sexual intercourse without any type of protection or birth control then you might have an argument.

[Lance 228]

Force them to have children? If the government FORCED the male and female to have sexual intercourse without any type of protection or birth control then you might have an argument.

 

but the Pope says birth control is a sin...so who's religion are we going to base our laws on?

[clodhopper 10]

 

YES, George Bush and dick are every bit as much fascist as you say Obama is a socialist.

 

Fascist: A reactionary or dictatorial person, I believe that pretty much sums up Dubya.

 

BUT, we are interested in the same issues, probably not too far apart.

 

QUOTE]

 

still no facts to support it.

 

Facts?, since when has a right winger wanted to be bothered with those pesky facts? But, here goes.

 

George Bush has denied us our First Amendment rights from the very first days of his administration. Even during his inauguration he denied the right of protesters to be heard by confining them to “first amendment zonesâ€. In doing this, George Bush denies the rights of millions of Americans to learn about the grievances that their fellow citizens harbor towards him.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0125-02.htm

 

He has repeatedly denied government access to journalists who fail to tow his line; he ties up our airways, using tax dollars, with government propagandists pretending to be real journalists; and he has even claimed the right to imprison journalists who expose administration crimes to the public. In all of this, George Bush has prevented American citizens from learning about the issues that they need to know about in order for a democracy to function.

 

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/2005/03/10/ktz_dscd.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-planted-fake-news-stories-on-american-tv-480172.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-greenwald/silencing-bush-critics-wi_b_15494.html

 

George Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program is a clear example of massive and repeated violations of our Fourth Amendment rights. Though Bush has repeatedly assured Americans that the program’s purpose is to “catch terroristsâ€, he has offered no evidence to that effect. If the Bush administration’s wiretapping of American citizens had a justifiable basis behind it, there should be no reason it couldn’t request warrants to conduct them. Though Bush claims that that would hamper his “War on Terrorâ€, that claim is patently absurd, since the law allows the requesting of warrants to be retroactive. Furthermore, knowledgeable sources have maintained that, though thousands of warrantless wiretaps per year have been ordered and conducted by the Bush administration, fewer than ten per year are justified by the constitutional standard of “reasonable cause†for suspicion.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/04/AR2006020401373.html?sub=AR

 

My biggest concern about George Bush’s warrantless spying program is that he is using it to spy on his political opponents. It is clear that this is a major purpose of Bush’s refusal to abide by the law and our Fourth Amendment by obtaining warrants when he feels it necessary to spy on people. If his purpose was to fight terrorism, there would be no problem with obtaining a warrant.

 

Spying on political opponents is a great way to neutralize them and to consolidate one’s own political power. J. Edgar Hoover used this mechanism to retain power as FBI Director for many decades. So did Richard Nixon, and he was impeached for it. When power is used and consolidated in this manner we take a giant step towards dictatorship. It should be obvious that this is why George Bush insists on his right to illegally wiretap American citizens without obtaining warrants, even if actual evidence to that effect was lacking – which it is not.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0710-21.htm

 

The provision of powers to our other branches of government was written into our Constitution as a check against a chief executive who attempts to consolidate power to the extent of becoming a dictator. The principle is known as “the Separation of Powersâ€.

 

The power to enforce the laws of the land, and the authority given the President as Commander-in-Chief during war time are especially important to check and control because arbitrary enforcement of laws, which are especially prone to occur during time of war, are a notorious means of denying rights to vulnerable individuals. For that reason, our Founding fathers balanced those executive powers by giving Congress the sole power to enact laws and declare war.

 

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/explore/BasicGoverningPrinciples/SeparationofPowersandaSystemofChecksandBalances.shtml

 

But by appending “signing statements†to more than 800 laws enacted by Congress – more signing statements that all 42 previous presidents combined have used – George Bush has arrogantly asserted his intentions not to be bound either by the rule of law in general or by the Separation of Powers provided in our Constitution. The American Bar Association has said that it:

opposes, as contrary to the rule of law and our constitutional system of separation of powers, the misuse of presidential signing statements by claiming the authority . . . to disregard or decline to enforce all or part of a law the president has signed…

 

The so called “War on Terrorism†and our war in Iraq has been used by the Bush administration repeatedly as an excuse to deny basic human rights to thousands of people. Yet Bush and Cheney repeatedly lied to Congress and to the American people to justify our invasion of Iraq. In so doing, according to the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR):

 

.... George W. Bush has subverted the Constitution, its guarantee of a republican form of government, and the constitutional separation of powers by undermining the rightful authority of Congress to declare war, oversee foreign affairs, and make appropriations. He did so by justifying the war with false and misleading statements and deceived the people of the United States as well as Congress…

 

Virtually all the safeguards that were written into our Constitution to prevent our democracy from descending into tyranny have been violated repeatedly by George Bush and Dick Cheney: Our freedom of expression has been repeatedly violated, in order to keep Americans in the dark as much as possible; the Bush administration repeatedly spies on its political enemies; it sees nothing wrong with denying a trial to those it captures, throws into dungeons and has tortured; it has repeatedly asserted its immunity from having to respond to Congressional investigations; and by repeatedly firing federal employees who fail to go along with its political agenda, it has turned the executive branch of our government into a crass system devised solely for the furtherance of its own power and political goals.

 

And our Congress – our main hope for putting the breaks on this tyrannical grasping for power – has yet to do anything to stop them.

 

It isn’t a question of whether or not the Bush administration will acquire dictatorial powers. They already have them, and nobody is stopping them because Congress thus far has shied away from going beyond the use of their investigative powers, which they have used only when permitted by the Bush administration.

 

So the question before us now is, ‘Why are George Bush and his cohorts doing this, and what are they planning on doing with all these powers 17 months from now?’ It could be that they’ve grabbed all these dictatorial powers just for fun or to stroke their ego, or something of that nature. Seriously, that could be it. Or, it could be something worse. I really don’t know.

 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/?page=full

[clodhopper 10]

Middle-Class Life Under Bush Republicans: Less Affordable and Less Secure

 

Health care premiums have increased 78 percent. The cost of family health insurance has skyrocketed 78 percent since 2001. This is compared to a 19 percent increase in wages and a 17 percent increase in overall inflation. The average premium for a family of four topped $12,000 in 2007, with the average family contribution of over $3,200. When premium growth outpaces increases in wages and inflation, workers typically have to spend a greater portion of their income each year in order to maintain coverage. From 2001 to 2007, the amount families pay out of pocket for their share of premiums has increased by approximately $1,500.

 

Gas prices have more than doubled. Prices at the gas pump have jumped 145 percent from $1.47 per gallon the week President Bush took office in January 2001 to an all-time high of $3.60 in the latest week of energy price data. The price for a barrel of oil has increased 268 percent during the Bush Administration from $30.63 in January 2001 to $112.58 in April 2008. The average household with children will spend about $5,030 on transportation fuel costs in 2008, an increase of 164 percent or $3.127 over 2001 costs.

 

College education costs have risen by over 60 percent. Average tuition, fees, room and board costs at four-year private universities have increased by $10,067, from $22,240 in the 2000-2001 academic year to $32,307 in the 2007-2008 academic year.Tuition, fees, room and board charges at four-year public colleges jumped from $8,439 for the 2000-2001 academic year to $13,589 for the 2007-2008 academic year - an increase of $5,150, or 61 percent.

 

Middle-Class Families Squeezed By Declining Income and Fewer Job Opportunities. While families work harder, their wages continue to decline. Middle-class families are working harder and earning less today than they were at the start of the Bush Administration. Median household income, adjusted for inflation, has declined $982 from $50,566 in 2000 to $49,584 in 2006.

 

Job creation among the worst since Hoover Administration. A growing economy should be good news for those seeking jobs. But over the course of his term in office, President Bush is in a statistical dead heat with his father for the worst overall job creation record since Herbert Hoover more than 70 years ago. Overall non-farm payroll employment has increased by just 5.38 million since President Bush took office in January 2001 compared with 22.7 million during the Clinton presidency. Overall employment growth has averaged just 61,800 jobs per month under President Bush (or 0.6 percent per year) - not even half of the 150,000 jobs needed each month to keep up with population growth. It was not uncommon to see monthly job gains of 300,000 and even 400,000 during economic expansions during the Clinton Administration.

 

Private sector job creation has been especially poor during the Bush presidency, with only 3.8 million new non-governmental jobs created since 2001, an increase of only 0.5 percent per year.

 

Bush's deficit-financed tax cuts have widened the income gap between millionaires and middle-class workers. Recently released data from the Internal Revenue Service indicates that the wealthiest one percent of Americans (with an average income of $1,316,000) earned 21.2 percent of all income while the bottom 50 percent earned only 12.8 percent of all income in 2005. A Wall Street Journal article entitled "Income-Inequality Gap Widens" observed that "the richest Americans' share of national income has hit a postwar record, surpassing the highs reached in the 1990s bull market, and underlining the divergence of economic fortunes blamed for fueling anxiety among American workers." The Wall Street Journal has attributed the widening income gap to President Bush's tax policies: "It appears that the highest-salaried workers - executives, managers and professionals - are widening their lead on the typical worker...The Bush tax cuts appear to have widened the income gap, according to many analyses." The New York Times observed that IRS data "showed that over one-quarter of the investment tax cut savings went to just 11,433 taxpayers, (those who made $10 million or more) saving them almost $1.9 million each." The Times also reported that a White House spokesman said that "the fact that nearly all of the growth in incomes was among those in the upper reaches of the income ladder and that the majority of investment tax breaks went to those making more than $1 million 'is not a very interesting story.'" The St. Louis Post Dispatch summed it up: "The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy have thrown the federal budget deeper into deficit while doing little for ordinary Americans."

 

In fact, President Bush's capital gains and dividends tax cuts will cost $2.349 trillion billion over ten years, with most of the benefits going to the richest one percent of Americans. In an analysis by the Tax Policy Center, economists found that the immediate effect of the Bush tax cuts has been "skewed in favor of those with high incomes," benefiting the most wealthy households the most. In 2006, for example, "families making more than $1 million a year saw their after-tax income increase by 6 percent because of the tax cuts, while families making $40,000 to $75,000 saw after-tax income rise by about 2.5 percent."

 

More American families and children face severe financial problems. In 2006, 36.5 million Americans were living in poverty, an increase of 4.9 million over the 2000 level, the year before President Bush took office. The average annual increase in the poverty rate during President Bush's first term is second only to that during George H.W. Bush's administration and contrasts sharply with the declines in the Clinton and Kennedy-Johnson Administrations. Poverty has hit America's children particularly hard. According to the latest Census report, almost one out of every six American children lives in poverty. The number of children living in poverty increased 10.06 percent during the Bush Administration.

 

Bush Republicans turned record budget surpluses into record deficits. President Bush inherited a unified budget surplus of $236 billion from President Clinton, the largest surplus in American history. Budget surpluses were expected to continue for another ten years when President Bush took office in January 2001. By 2002, however, the unified federal budget had returned to a deficit of $160 billion and has since reached historic highs. Last year, the budget deficit was $163 billion, or 1.2 percent of GDP.

 

Bush Republicans, addicted to borrowing, increased the national debt by over $3 trillion. President Bush is the most fiscally irresponsible American president, having presided over the largest explosion of debt in our nation's history. Every year since taking office, President Bush requested that Congress increase the statutory debt limit, resulting in a $3.2 trillion, or 57 percent, increase. At the end of 2007, the federal debt was $9.0 trillion, or nearly $30,000 for every man, woman, and child in America. The public debt currently stands at $9.4 trillion.

 

Enormous trade deficit is undermining U.S. competitiveness. In 2007, the annual U.S. trade deficit was $708.5 billion - twice the size of the trade deficit in 2000, the year before George Bush took office. In February 2008, the Commerce Department reported a monthly trade deficit of $62.3 billion - when George Bush took office in January 2001, the monthly trade deficit stood at $33.3 billion. As troubling, our trade in Advanced Technology Products, a strong indicator of U.S. competitiveness, which was in surplus as recently as 2001, experienced an annual deficit of more than $53 billion in 2007, and a monthly deficit of $3.34 billion in February 2008.

Debt owed to foreigners climbs to record levels. In order to finance record budget deficits, the United States has had to borrow at unprecedented rates from foreigners. As of September 2007, the United States had accumulated $1.4 trillion more in debt to foreigners than this country had accumulated in its first 224 years. By contrast, during the last three years of the Clinton Administration, the United States paid off more than $200 billion in debt to foreigners.

 

Record government and personal debt levels threaten economic future. Record federal deficits and debt create record interest costs for Americans. In 2006, interest costs on the federal debt amounted to $405.9 billion and this figure will grow to $645 billion by 2017. Personal debt levels have also reached a modern record. The Washington Post noted that "flat wages and rising debt nationally have converged to leave millions of middle-class households feeling acutely vulnerable to bumps in their financial planning." According to the Federal Reserve, last year the ratio of financial obligations to disposable personal income reached an all-time high since the data was first collected in 1980. The ratio, which accounts for mortgage, consumer, and other obligations, has remained high. In the fourth quarter of 2007, 19.35 percent of disposable income was spent on debt. Meanwhile, "American consumers are holding debt in growing numbers and in larger amounts than ever," and "more Americans have fallen behind on consumer loans than any time in nearly 16 years ,as credit problems once concentrated in mortgages spread into other forms of debt."

 

Average student loan debt soared to more than $19,000. Interest rates for Stafford student loans have risen substantially over the past three years, from 3.4 percent to 7.14 percent for outstanding loans and 6.8 percent on new loans. As a result, loan payments will be considerably higher for students taking out new loans and for those who did not consolidate loans in recent years. Without adequate federal grants funding, students and their parents must rely more on student loans to finance their college educations. According to the Institute for College Access and Success, more than 60 percent of college seniors graduate with debt, with an average $19,200 in debt per graduate. And, according to the Institute for Public Policy and Higher Education, 31 percent of the median family income is needed to pay for one year at a four-year public college after financial aid.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

Force them to have children? If the government FORCED the male and female to have sexual intercourse without any type of protection or birth control then you might have an argument.

 

 

Not all sex is a case of mutual consent.

 

Regaurdless, if the child is born to a young women or couple that is not prepared for a baby, the republicans would say tough luck...no government assistance for you, or your baby. Who is the one really suffering in this situation. You cant have the best of both worlds. As long as you are having more and more babies born into poverty, the more assistance they will require, and the more likely they will grow up just like thier parents. The cycle continues.

Edited September 5, 2008 by BigBlueAlum

[clodhopper 10]

Why are "Wedge Issues" Essential to Republican Rule?

 

First of all, wedge issues are emotional in appeal. They bypass the cognitive function of the brain and go right to a subconscious emotional response. Name any Republican wedge issue from immigration, to abortion, to gay marriage, to flag burning -- not to mention the granddaddy of them all: "the war on terrorism" and FEAR -- and you run head into an emotional, not a reasoned, hook.

 

In short, the Republicans are tremendously skilled at employing the art of the demagogue to get Americans -- around half at any given time -- to avoid reasoned discussion of public policy. They do this by appealing to emotional, instinctual reactions that are not processed through a thoughtful process. It's called pressing a hot button.

 

Second of all, the Republicans use wedge issues to, essentially, pickpocket the American public and dismantle the American government.

 

While they have the public and the media distracted with red hot emotional topics, they go off and make the wealthy wealthier, increase our national debt, dismantle the Constitution, and take away government social services. Wedge issues are a powerful distraction -- and allow the right wing to accomplish their goals while the public is preoccupied with some trumped up emotional issue that the Busheviks could care less about.

 

Finally, wedge issues are a tremendous fundraising tool for the right wing. In fact, the campaigns of right wing candidates were financed by the money generated by right wing wedge issue direct mail. Richard Viguerie was the guru who started the direct mail juggernaut for GOP candidates -- and organizations -- and he's still going strong. It shouldn't be forgotten that Rove came to the fore in Texas politics as a direct mail consultant.

 

In short, wedge issues that press the hot buttons of right wing donors sell big time. We heard Viguerie speak recently and he referred to "pre-sold" wedge issues. In essence, these are topics like "gay marriage," "abortion," and "war on terror" that you include in the first sentence of a GOP direct mail piece and you are guaranteed a good response because they have such visceral impact on Stepford GOP followers.

 

Progressives and Democrats have far fewer "pre-sold" appeals -- except for the mention of Bush and Cheney -- because progressives and Democrats think more before acting. That may sound snobbish, but it's true from a direct mail perspective.

 

Basically, the Republican "rule by emotional appeal" boils down to a big brother elitism whose message to Americans is simply this: "Don't think. We'll do the thinking for you. Just follow."

[Guest JJBrickface]

Not all sex is a case of mutual consent.

 

Regaurdless, if the child is born to a young women or couple that is not prepared for a baby, the republicans would say tough luck...no government assistance for you, or your baby. Who is the one really suffering in this situation. You cant have the best of both worlds. As long as you are having more and more babies born into poverty, the more assistance they will require, and the more likely they will grow up just like thier parents. The cycle continues.

 

So you are saying that republicans are saying "tough luck" to parents if they want to have an abortion.? Aren't you saying "tough luck" to the child by denying it life?

[tbgfan 855]

So everything that is considered sin should be made law and then amended to the constitution? What would be the punishment for cursing, how much for wanting something your neighbor has? It is all sin, and it is all person morals. Talk about government control... you all want the government to make us all good Christians. There comes a time people have to make their own decisions. There are many religions in this country (remember the first amendment), so why should all of our laws be based on Christian morals? Just throwing my .02 cents out there. :)

 

Blue Alum you are right--God gave people free wills to make their own choices/decisions. A Christian life or walk with God cannot be legislated by the laws of man, because it is a matter of the heart not the mind. I have comfort and confidence in Psalm 19:7, which states "The law of the Lord (his word) is perfect, converting (restoring) the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple." As for the issue of abortion, when there is no reverence for the sanctity of a baby's life in its mother's womb, then there will be no sanctity of life outside of the womb. This is why this country is so rampant with killings of children, even by children and untold abuse of children. When a legislated right takes precedence over the God-given right of life to a child, then civilization begins to decay. This scripture states it more beautifully and better than any man ever could--Psalm 127:3 "Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward."

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

I can copy and paste too Clodhopper.

 

Even though some of your links dont work, as well as your openly liberal sources in the first post I believe almost all of what was said is unsubstansiated..

 

Ill just highlight one small thing I want you to answer. How has George Bush not allowed us to express ourselves???

[Lance 228]

I still want to know who's version of "God" gets to make the laws?

[bucfan64 307]

The same old rhetoric keeps coming up....Gas was $1.46 when Bush took office, blah, blah, blah.

 

Well, I agree gas prices have increased astronomically, and the DEMS want to give ol' George all of the blame. Lets see, wasn't it the DEMOCRATIC party that echoed that they would bring change to the American economy if elected in 2006. So the Sheeple listened to them and congress has since been DOMINATED by the Dems. The price of fuel has increased 200% since their takeover! WOW! But I bet that too has been ol'George's fault.

 

The facts are neither party is going to change, until the people FORCE THEM TO CHANGE!

 

 

 

By the way regarding SAME SEX "MARRIAGE", the phrase itself is not even acurate. It should be called ANTI-MARRIAGE. It is impossible for two persons of he same sex to get "married" according to the definition as it is defined in Websters and most importantly the HOLY BIBLE ITSELF.

 

Marriage is a holy union, instituted by GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF, it is to represent the union of the BODY OF CHrist which is referred to as the "BRIDE OF CHRIST," which is female, and the BRIDEGROOM, which is Christ, the male . This is a union of opposites, male and female. Therefore, to suggest that same sex partners should be allowed to unite in marriage is to SPIT IN THE FACE OF Christianity and to deny the holy union that GOD ORDAINED!

 

 

For this one reason only, I will go to my grave denying the support OF and anyone who supports this Blasphemy which should be called ANTI-MARRIAGE!

[BigBlueAlum 12]

The same old rhetoric keeps coming up....Gas was $1.46 when Bush took office, blah, blah, blah.

 

Well, I agree gas prices have increased astronomically, and the DEMS want to give ol' George all of the blame. Lets see, wasn't it the DEMOCRATIC party that echoed that they would bring change to the American economy if elected in 2006. So the Sheeple listened to them and congress has since been DOMINATED by the Dems. The price of fuel has increased 200% since their takeover! WOW! But I bet that too has been ol'George's fault.

 

The facts are neither party is going to change, until the people FORCE THEM TO CHANGE!

 

 

 

By the way regarding SAME SEX "MARRIAGE", the phrase itself is not even acurate. It should be called ANTI-MARRIAGE. It is impossible for two persons of he same sex to get "married" according to the definition as it is defined in Websters and most importantly the HOLY BIBLE ITSELF.

 

Marriage is a holy union, instituted by GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF, it is to represent the union of the BODY OF CHrist which is referred to as the "BRIDE OF CHRIST," which is female, and the BRIDEGROOM, which is Christ, the male . This is a union of opposites, male and female. Therefore, to suggest that same sex partners should be allowed to unite in marriage is to SPIT IN THE FACE OF Christianity and to deny the holy union that GOD ORDAINED!

 

 

For this one reason only, I will go to my grave denying the support OF and anyone who supports this Blasphemy which should be called ANTI-MARRIAGE!

 

 

NEWS FLASH!!!:

 

NOT EVERYONE IS A CHRISTIAN IN AMERICA. Therefore, building laws on Christian values is rediculous. Im not saying Im not a christian, but Im tired of Christians trying to make everyone else agree with them. Worry about your own sin, and let everyone else worry about their own sin.

 

BTW, the definition of marriage from the Webster Dictionary:

 

Main Entry: mar·riage

Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry

Date: 14th century

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities

3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>

 

LINK

[futbolking 766]

you have all put me to sleep....

 

Countdown to the end of an "error".... January 2009.