Legitimiate question for Obama supporters...

[bluefieldRocks 14]

I haven't bashed one person with this thread!! I asked a question, period. You can either answer it or ignore it.

 

 

I believe I answered, or did I not?

[Fighton_3 10]

Nobody was trying to change your vote, we want to be enlightened as to what he has done. The question was what has Obama done to make him qualified to run this country. You really didn't answer the question, you just said it didn't matter what he had done. Cold hard facts are the only way for it to be answered.

 

But anyhow, if JJ was trying to make a point by starting this thread, point made.

[bluefieldRocks 14]

community organizer, Illinois State Senate for 8 years, US Senate for 4 years

 

 

I couldnt tell you what Bills he's helped passed our what not.. to be honest with you, I don't have that kind of time to look for that.

 

Thats his resume, I'm looking forward to what I think Obama is going to do. Not what he or McCain has done in the past.

 

 

Some of you guys are like Pitt fans, Talking about what they've done in the past (Football championships) and not talking about what they're doing now... or going to do in the future.

Edited October 28, 2008 by bluefieldRocks

[tbgfan 856]

Some of you guys are like Pitt fans, Talking about what they've done in the past (Football championships) and not talking about what they're doing now... or going to do in the future.

 

History is a mirror that records facts without bias---

 

Wishful thinking can be like driving a race car with no tread on the tires--ready to wreck themselves and others around them---

 

The author of the book "Audacity of Hope" doesn't have the answers to the future, but the author who gives us hope, guidance and direction in the "Bible" does have the answers---

 

 

 

Life has many choices---eternity has two

[bluefieldRocks 14]

History is a mirror that records facts without bias---

 

Wishful thinking can be like driving a race car with no tread on the tires--ready to wreck themselves and others around them---

 

The author of the book "Audacity of Hope" doesn't have the answers to the future, but the author who gives us hope, guidance and direction in the "Bible" does have the answers---

 

 

 

Life has many choices---eternity has two

 

Just because McCain has more experience does not mean he will do a better job... It just shows that he SHOULD do a better job

[BigBlueAlum 12]

Barack Obama has done more than George Bush has ever done?

 

Yeah, and we see where all of that great "experience" has gotten us. Obviously experience isn't everything.

 

How come when it comes to Sara Palin's lack of experience, you all call it a “youthful change that the country needs”, then when it comes to Obama's inexperience, it is a completely different story?

[hokie07 11]

Yeah, and we see where all of that great "experience" has gotten us. Obviously experience isn't everything.

 

How come when it comes to Sara Palin's lack of experience, you all call it a “youthful change that the country needs”, then when it comes to Obama's inexperience, it is a completely different story?

 

Where did I say/infer that George W. Bush was a great president? I don't recall posting that or coming even remotely close to that assumption. I merely stated a question asking if WaveFan09 really thought Obama had more experience than Bush. Now, I am not certain of Bush's accomplishments prior to serving as the President but I do know that he was one of the most well-liked and well-respected governors in Texas history. He served two full terms and won both elections rather easily. I'm not getting into a debate on who is better: Bush or Obama; but I will leave you with the fact George W. Bush actually governed the 2nd largest state in the country for eight years whereas Obama hasn't, and also, that both of them were (in G.W.'s case) and are (in Obama's circumstances) very well liked before they enter(ed) the Oval Office.

 

As for the Palin/Obama experience argument:

I don't know where you have been or what you've been reading, but I do know that Beavertail has posted numerous responses to this very question. If you do a little archive searching I'm sure you'll be able to find a very thorough, well thought-out answer. I dug up what I posted below in about 2 minutes, and I'm almost positive there is more if you're willing to do a little research. What it basically boils down to is that Sarah Palin has proposed change and has seen it put into action. Barack Obama has proposed change only to still see it as an envision.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

But here is a little bit of Beavertail's homework. Study up.

 

http://www.swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12858

 

She has been the state goverrnor for two years and has a 85% approval rating.

 

She has taken the profits from the natural resources, such as oil, and given back to the population. $1,200 dollars to each eligible citizen.

 

She is building a pipline that alaskan citizens have been waiting for over 25+ years.

 

The former governor bought a private jet for use. Taxpayers paid for it. Palin sold it.

 

She has Tripled Special Ed Funding.

Edited October 28, 2008 by hokie07

[bluefieldRocks 14]

Where did I say/infer that George W. Bush was a great president? I don't recall posting that or coming even remotely close to that assumption. I merely stated a question asking if WaveFan09 really thought Obama had more experience than Bush. Now, I am not certain of Bush's accomplishments prior to serving as the President but I do know that he was one of the most well-liked and well-respected governors in Texas history. He served two full terms and won both elections rather easily. I'm not getting into a debate on who is better: Bush or Obama; but I will leave you with the fact George W. Bush actually governed the 2nd largest state in the country for eight years whereas Obama hasn't, and also, that both of them were (in G.W.'s case) and are (in Obama's circumstances) very well liked before they enter(ed) the Oval Office.

 

As for the Palin/Obama experience argument:

I don't know where you have been or what you've been reading, but I do know that Beavertail has posted numerous responses to this very question. If you do a little archive searching I'm sure you'll be able to find a very thorough, well thought-out answer. I dug up what I posted below in about 2 minutes, and I'm almost positive there is more if you're willing to do a little research. What it basically boils down to is that Sarah Palin has proposed change and has seen it put into action. Barack Obama has proposed change only to still see it as an envision.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

But here is a little bit of Beavertail's homework. Study up.

 

http://www.swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12858

 

She has been the state goverrnor for two years and has a 85% approval rating.

 

She has taken the profits from the natural resources, such as oil, and given back to the population. $1,200 dollars to each eligible citizen.

 

She is building a pipline that alaskan citizens have been waiting for over 25+ years.

 

The former governor bought a private jet for use. Taxpayers paid for it. Palin sold it.

 

She has Tripled Special Ed Funding.

 

 

Study up? I guess I just got schooled...

[Lance 228]

Ill ask again... What congressional accomplishments has Barack Obama acheived while in Illinios' senate, as well as a Senator for Illinois?

 

he's a politician...which means he hasn't done anything lol....just like every other politician...no difference.

[bluefieldRocks 14]

This site may intrest you BeaverTail....Like it's been mentioned about 36,052 times on this board, we all know he doesnt have the same resume that McCain does. But I think he's going to do a good job if he gets elected....."Whats you're proof he'll do a good job?"......I have NONE!

 

there...

 

http://unastronaut.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/some-of-barack-obamas-accomplishments/

 

 

]

Edited October 28, 2008 by bluefieldRocks

[blueinbama 259]

Sir,

 

 

Excuse me Mr. Obama, I mean Senator Obama, sir. Um . . know you are busy and important and stuff. I mean running for president is very important and . . . ah . . I hate to bother you. I will only take a minute ok, sir?

 

 

See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things.

 

 

I can't seem to get some information I need to wrap this up. These things seem to either be 'locked' or 'not available'. I'm sure it's just some oversight or glitch or something, so if you could you tell me where these things are . .. . I . . I . . . have them written down here somewhere . . . oh wait. Sorry about the smears. It was raining out. I'll just read it to you.

 

 

Could you help me please find these things, sir?

 

 

1. Occidental College records -- Not Released

2. Columbia College records -- Not Released

3. Columbia Thesis paper -- Not Available, locked down by faculty

4. Harvard College records -- Not Released, locked down by faculty

5. Selective Service Registration -- Not Released

6. Medical records -- Not Released

7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'Not Available'

8. Law practice client list -- Not Released

9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not Released

10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None

12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None

 

13. Your Record of baptism-- Not Released or 'Not Available'

 

14. Your Illinois State Senate records--'Not Available'

 

 

'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World .... 143 days.

 

We all have to start somewhere. The Senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start.

 

AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are okay with this for the President of the United States of America? Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

[cavdaddy 25]

Everyone keeps talking about change with Obama. The last time I checked he was still a politician with ties to one of the two major political parities in the US. If you really want change so bad, vote Ron Paul or someone from the Constitution, Libertarian, or Green parties.

And if your idea of change is raising taxes to give the lazy and irresponsible even more free food, more free housing, and more free education then bundle up when you visit Lenin's grave because it gets cold in Russia this time of year.

 

The problem with your statement is there is no compassion. Not everyone have the same opportunities as others. I'm voting for Obama because he sends a message of hope for the unfortunate. Jesus was controversial because of his convictions and passion for the poor. I can tell you are conservative, well, your compassionate conservatism for the past 8 years has set this country back 20 years!

[frontierman95 10]

The problem with your statement is there is no compassion. Not everyone have the same opportunities as others. I'm voting for Obama because he sends a message of hope for the unfortunate. Jesus was controversial because of his convictions and passion for the poor. I can tell you are conservative, well, your compassionate conservatism for the past 8 years has set this country back 20 years!

I am as compassionate as anyone, but taking something hard earned from someone and giving it to someone else is not right. There is not a level playing field in life. Some have more opportunities than others, whether by economic background or other. But if you start taking money to "share the wealth" you will bog down the economy even more. AS I am sure you know, businesses use profits to invest in that business and make it better. You take that away and then you will stalemate that business.

If questioning my compassion, then I'll clear it up. I am compassionate for those who make the effort to better themselves.

How many of you knew that Obama worked for a law firm that threatened to sue Citibank in Chicago if they didn't give more loans to minorities and people of lesser economic means? I am not denying a persons right to live and assistance if needed, but look at a high school. Every kid has a cell phone and mp3 player, but yet my buddy who coaches tells me these same kids say they can't afford a pair of football cleats.

If banks had made loans on economic worth and ability to pay it back, we would not be in the shape we are in now. And for that both parties, democrats and republicans, have failed. But more government is not the answer.

[cavdaddy 25]

I can tell you are a well-educated person (probably an economics major). I'm not, I've worked hard for everything I have. I wouldn't have anything if there wasn't some governmental assistance in my early years. I'll admit, I've benefitted from welfare, but am no longer in need of it. Because of those programs, my children can enjoy a middle class life. Thats what Obama wants to do, is elevate the middle class and even out the playing field. How can you go against that Mr. Frontier? If my history is correct, the Frontier was about taking risk and chances, take a chance on Obama, theres no risk in it.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

Where did I say/infer that George W. Bush was a great president? I don't recall posting that or coming even remotely close to that assumption. I merely stated a question asking if WaveFan09 really thought Obama had more experience than Bush. Now, I am not certain of Bush's accomplishments prior to serving as the President but I do know that he was one of the most well-liked and well-respected governors in Texas history. He served two full terms and won both elections rather easily. I'm not getting into a debate on who is better: Bush or Obama; but I will leave you with the fact George W. Bush actually governed the 2nd largest state in the country for eight years whereas Obama hasn't, and also, that both of them were (in G.W.'s case) and are (in Obama's circumstances) very well liked before they enter(ed) the Oval Office.

 

As for the Palin/Obama experience argument:

I don't know where you have been or what you've been reading, but I do know that Beavertail has posted numerous responses to this very question. If you do a little archive searching I'm sure you'll be able to find a very thorough, well thought-out answer. I dug up what I posted below in about 2 minutes, and I'm almost positive there is more if you're willing to do a little research. What it basically boils down to is that Sarah Palin has proposed change and has seen it put into action. Barack Obama has proposed change only to still see it as an envision.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

But here is a little bit of Beavertail's homework. Study up.

 

http://www.swvasports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12858

 

She has been the state goverrnor for two years and has a 85% approval rating.

 

She has taken the profits from the natural resources, such as oil, and given back to the population. $1,200 dollars to each eligible citizen.

 

She is building a pipline that alaskan citizens have been waiting for over 25+ years.

 

The former governor bought a private jet for use. Taxpayers paid for it. Palin sold it.

 

She has Tripled Special Ed Funding.

 

I didnt imply that you said GWB was a great president. I was making the point that even though GWB had "accomplishments" before becoming president, that didnt make him a good president.

 

I'm still not seeing how she is THAT much more experienced than Obama. Sure she has done some good things for Alaska, but it is Alaska! If you say Obama is not experienced enough, I dont think you can say Palin is.

Edited October 28, 2008 by BigBlueAlum

[Popeye 32]

Compassion and faith have yet to pay a bill for me. Obama sends a message of hope to the "less" fortunate written on the back of those that have had the desire to take advantage of the many oppurtunites that our country offers. I aggree that there is a population in our society that needs attention and care. But my vision of that is certainly different than Obama's.

 

An attempt at Redistribution of Wealth will crush our already suffering economy. IT CANNOT WORK. More regulation will result in a larger government. Redistribution of Income allows the government to regulate salaries. One unjust system cannot fix another. Someone define what type of government we fall under if we allow them to regulate our incomes. If one has the will and desire to take "full" advantage of the oppurtunities in this country and puts himself on the path of success then why slap them in the face and say "Unfair".

 

The last 8 years have been good to me. I did not go out and take on loans that I could not repay or Buy cars or houses that I could not afford. The blame for our current economic situation cannot be focused soley on our government. We as a population gleefully accepted the "Great" deals that were offered to us and we now scowl at the government for not "Regulating" what we should have purchased. Ignorance and self service by all has driven us to the point we are now at.

 

If Obama does indeed get elected as our president, then it will have been the greatest scam ever pulled off by either political party. He has no substance, no executive experience and yet people flock to him. To reiterate a comment made in another post. "Beware of False Prophets".

 

Now having said my piece, I'll be glad when this election is over and we can (Hopefully) get back to living without the cloud of politics hovering over us.

[frontierman95 10]

Compassion and faith have yet to pay a bill for me. Obama sends a message of hope to the "less" fortunate written on the back of those that have had the desire to take advantage of the many oppurtunites that our country offers. I aggree that there is a population in our society that needs attention and care. But my vision of that is certainly different than Obama's.

 

An attempt at Redistribution of Wealth will crush our already suffering economy. IT CANNOT WORK. More regulation will result in a larger government. Redistribution of Income allows the government to regulate salaries. One unjust system cannot fix another. Someone define what type of government we fall under if we allow them to regulate our incomes. If one has the will and desire to take "full" advantage of the oppurtunities in this country and puts himself on the path of success then why slap them in the face and say "Unfair".

 

The last 8 years have been good to me. I did not go out and take on loans that I could not repay or Buy cars or houses that I could not afford. The blame for our current economic situation cannot be focused soley on our government. We as a population gleefully accepted the "Great" deals that were offered to us and we now scowl at the government for not "Regulating" what we should have purchased. Ignorance and self service by all has driven us to the point we are now at.

 

If Obama does indeed get elected as our president, then it will have been the greatest scam ever pulled off by either political party. He has no substance, no executive experience and yet people flock to him. To reiterate a comment made in another post. "Beware of False Prophets".

 

Now having said my piece, I'll be glad when this election is over and we can (Hopefully) get back to living without the cloud of politics hovering over us.

What I said, but only better.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

The problem with your statement is there is no compassion. Not everyone have the same opportunities as others. I'm voting for Obama because he sends a message of hope for the unfortunate. Jesus was controversial because of his convictions and passion for the poor. I can tell you are conservative, well, your compassionate conservatism for the past 8 years has set this country back 20 years!

 

With all due respect, compassion is good but compassion doesn't make a country strong or prosperous. People in America have had equal opportunity for decades.

 

What's happened in America in recent years is that a lot of people are so overwhelmed with all of this compassionate and equality thinking that they haven't stopped to consider a valuable fact about life, that is that you simply can't regulate a perfect world.

Life isn't always fair, it isn't always equal, and while you're mentioning Jesus and compassion, I don't think Jesus ever told the poor they needed more $s or handouts to have better lives, His compassion was a completely different kind, and more than that Jesus said something about not being envious of others.

 

But politically speaking, consider the realistic idea of equality in America, consider that when people demand that things be equal and force equality on something, they don't do it by raising the "have nots" to the level of the "haves", what happens is the "haves" are brought down to the level of the "have nots". America has been a strong country for a long time, but how on earth can any of you people who want compassion and equality to rule America realistically think that lowering the standards for all would do anything positive for the country? It would be 1 of the worst things that could happen to America.

 

Is it worth it? Unfortunately the other big problem with America is that anymore it's a spoiled, soft society that's all about "me", whereas a great patriot once said "ask not what you're country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country." That would be a very fitting ideal for Americans to consider in these elections.

Remember this date though, oct. 28th because in a few days I'll post the names of some soldiers or marines who will be killed today in the name of "freedom", not socialism, but freedom. A willing sacrifice for freedom on their part, but unfortunately the only risk many Americans are apparently willing to take themselves is on "socialism", which is quite the opposite of freedom. And apparently because there might be a few perks in it for them to..

 

Should obama be elected socialism will rule, I hope it was worth it for everyone who voted for him. Yall want change, you're gonna get it, and oddly I've always considered America a strong country where the sky was the limit and we couldn't have it better opportunity wise, but I guess that's not good enough for spoiled America, so now that might all "change".....

 

p.s. to all who want more government programs and handouts, you're wishing on yourselves "dependancy", dependancy on someone else, on government..., you will be in debt to them, i.e. you will be slaves to them. Slavery is bondage, aside from the fact that bondage is the opposite of freedom, bondage is also 1 of the last of 7 steps in the rise and "fall" of great nations. Great nations start with "rebellion", they end with bondage.

You're saying "no way I won't be a slave", now, but the fact is you can't expect to live in an America with a life that is regulated by government, and not be subject to that government.

[frontierman95 10]

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

 

 

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

 

 

3. From courage to liberty;

 

 

4. From liberty to abundance;

 

 

5. From abundance to complacency;

 

 

6. From complacency to apathy;

 

 

7. From apathy to dependence;

 

 

8. From dependence back into bondage'

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

basically they are, but there's differently worded adaptations of those steps, all in common, but simply worded differently.

 

obviously 8 steps to, not 7, my oversight. Appreciate it.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

1 more thing to mention, nne of that is a knock on anyone who ever needed help or a legit handout, God knows I've needed help lots of times before, and will again, we all do at times, but that said in the bigger scheme there's a time and place for it, and its not a way to run a strong country.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

You all are ridiculous.

[Popeye 32]

Ridiculous? For what? Really having concern about the country? Not ignoring the glaring truth that neither candidate can produce what they have offered. Yet Obama's plan for tax cuts with no new taxes cannot fund the projects that he offers. Redistribution of income can happen in few ways, one of which is to tax you more for every dollar you make. The more you make the more he'll take. Why would someone aspire to attain a career making making a decent income if financially they'll do no better than a minimum wage income. I dont need "HOPE". I dont need higher taxes. I dont want a bloated government. And I certainly dont feel the need to take "Chances" on the highest elected Office in this nation.

 

Caught this little tidbit from an e-mail maybe it will make sense.

 

 

Our Tax System Explained: Bar Stool Economics

 

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

 

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

 

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

 

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I got' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

 

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

 

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[phatbeaver 10]

Well let's just say that Senator Obama hasn't crashed numerous amounts of American planes(pre-vietnam), crashed a couple more before an aircraft carrier and saigon .. gotten captured by the enemy and then chose to stay because he was being treated like a king....McCain's dad was an Admiral and in control of the entire Pacific fleet.... Aww what a privledged brat. To think that just because he's screwed a few models and hookers with pre hooker model qualifications that he should run this country - you must be smoking the same stuff that he must have been smoking before he crashed....You should really research your candidate before you down the others.. there is definately more to J. M.'s story. He's not the white-haired hero you think he is... He is actually a screw up that has survived off of his dad's legacy and his wife's money and pre 40 yr. old looks. Remind you of someone else??? Sure it does President Bush... Little known fact - Ronnie and Nancy... Hated McCains guts for what and how he did his first wife and the way he screwed up some very simple political things. Now if there was ever a Republican that i liked it was President Reagan. He didn't trust or like him and I don't either. I see McCain as a wolf in sheep's clothing... time to get the shears out and expose him for what he is ... A FAKE... Sarah Palin??? Come on ... do you believe that woman could command respect from other world leaders... I dont think so.. The lead husky on dog sled yawns and yaps when she commands him... Think about it...Only a few days left guys please put your personal/ private/ stereotypical reasons aside and focus on the truth and the future of our country.

[futbolking 766]

Amen to that.... I have read his plan and like what I see....McCain has no plan. Apparently he wants to get into the oval office by using a smear campaign and scare tactics. If he took a legitimate stand on the issues and offered a solution to the problems we face as Americans, I might be inclined to vote for him...but so far...he has not offered a thing for me to win my vote.