Carroll County and redistricting

[sixcat 2,923]

One point I wished to make (which obviously wasn't clear) is that the Seminole schools are not actively avoiding Franklin County. The emphasis on the pronoun NOBODY [sic] struck me as all-inclusive and would consequently be incorrect as applied to the membership of the Seminole District.

 

Good point! Franklin County is a bit of an enigma being the largest high school west of Richmond. It may make sense to regenerate the old Western Valley District with Franklin County, Patrick Henry, GW Danville and William Fleming for the new 6 classification system. Maybe Carroll can join them ;).

 

If every high school aged kid in Carroll County attended Carroll County High School, the student population would be well over 1500 in my opinion. Based on Carroll's borders, they loose several kids to Galax, Fort Chiswell, Floyd and Mt Airy, NC.

Edited August 30, 2012 by sixcat

[Huntercav 10]

The pronoun NOBODY was more in the vernacular and was simply repeated by the author from countless newspaper and television articles on the subject. To take umbrage with that phrase or wording is to miss the point I was trying to make entirely. You disagreed and brought up the dead Seminole possibility, which I have moved beyond because it is was no longer in the cards. @sixcat: I agree that William Fleming finds itself in the same boat and has indeed schedule FC multiple times to fill slots on their schedules. One counted toward district play and the other contest did not. Politics does indeed make for strange bed fellows.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

Franklin County is one of the most politically charged counties you will find. The influx of people with money from up north who have bought all the property along Smith Mountain Lake have pushed for their own school system for years. The county has never taken the bait but the Williard Companies along with a few others have basically taken matters into their own hands by starting to build their own community, complete with their own WalMart, Kroger, several banks and restaurants, etc., all independent of Rocky Mount. I believe the process to an independent city along SML has begun. The current town is called Westlake Corners. It has all been built within the past 8-10 years.

 

Interesting angle.

 

I'm familiar with Westlake. My understanding is that the demographic of that area is still dominated by retirees and other households that do not include school-aged children (although that market is still evolving). Those in the area who do have kids probably aren't crazy about shipping them to Rocky Mount for middle and high school, and it's logical to believe that they're pushing Franklin County to construct those facilities closer to their population base. But incorporation of that area would also mean an additional tax burden for residents, and the Commonwealth of Virginia is actually in the process of eliminating small independent cities, so I don't think any effort of that type will gain much traction. Just my opinion, of course.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

The pronoun NOBODY was more in the vernacular and was simply repeated by the author from countless newspaper and television articles on the subject. To take umbrage with that phrase or wording is to miss the point I was trying to make entirely. You disagreed and brought up the dead Seminole possibility, which I have moved beyond because it is was no longer in the cards.

 

Very difficult to discern the fine lines of conversation in a message board format. Mea culpa.

 

Given the apparent controversy, I'm hereby offering the suggestion that the option of Franklin to the Seminole District should be revived. Travel distances for them in that league wouldn't be much more objectionable than what they'd face in the River Ridge (although there's that nagging subjectivity related to the quality of the roads they'd be traveling). There's no apparent objection to perceptions of competitive advantage (many Seminole schools already schedule the Eagles in a wide range of sports). And somebody in Charlottesville apparently thought that it was a good idea to slot them in that district to begin with.

 

If someone has connections with the VHSL Executive Board and is willing to advance my proposal, I'll gladly give them the credit if it is adopted.

 

All of this is pretty much just for grins, anyway.

[sixcat 2,923]

Interesting angle.

 

I'm familiar with Westlake. My understanding is that the demographic of that area is still dominated by retirees and other households that do not include school-aged children (although that market is still evolving). Those in the area who do have kids probably aren't crazy about shipping them to Rocky Mount for middle and high school, and it's logical to believe that they're pushing Franklin County to construct those facilities closer to their population base. But incorporation of that area would also mean an additional tax burden for residents, and the Commonwealth of Virginia is actually in the process of eliminating small independent cities, so I don't think any effort of that type will gain much traction. Just my opinion, of course.

 

I think that is part of the problem that area is having in incorporation. My wife's office was around the corner from Westlake for 7 years so we are very familiar with it. As for the demographic, it is a good mix of retirees and families. The Westlake Cinema thrives on it. I played golf quite often at The Westlake and Mariners Landing with several of the local juniors and they have a fairly large junior tournament there every summer. It is definitely an oil and water mix between Franklin County residents as a whole and Smith Mountain Lake residents.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Interesting angle.

 

I'm familiar with Westlake. My understanding is that the demographic of that area is still dominated by retirees and other households that do not include school-aged children (although that market is still evolving). Those in the area who do have kids probably aren't crazy about shipping them to Rocky Mount for middle and high school, and it's logical to believe that they're pushing Franklin County to construct those facilities closer to their population base. But incorporation of that area would also mean an additional tax burden for residents, and the Commonwealth of Virginia is actually in the process of eliminating small independent cities, so I don't think any effort of that type will gain much traction. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Very solid analysis.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

Good point! Franklin County is a bit of an enigma being the largest high school west of Richmond. It may make sense to regenerate the old Western Valley District with Franklin County, Patrick Henry, GW Danville and William Fleming for the new 6 classification system. Maybe Carroll can join them ;).

 

Nah.... Carroll shouldn't sell themselves short. Whenever Notre Dame budges, they should go hard for the 16th slot in the ACC.

 

; )

[sixcat 2,923]

Nah.... Carroll shouldn't sell themselves short. Whenever Notre Dame budges, they should go hard for the 16th slot in the ACC.

 

; )

 

I think Carroll could get into the Big LEast right now if it so desired!

[Huntercav 10]

Keep in mind that Frank Beamer was raised in good old Carroll County. Hmmmmm. Maybe that's where he learned to make excuses and dodge opponents? Naw, that was in the good ol' days before consolidation and messageboards. That was an era when Hillsville High School had nearly as many kids on their varisty as CCHS has today!

[trigger 10]

I find some of these arguments to be ridiculous. School buses travel lover's leap and Woolwine Mountain (much worse BTW) everyday in the Patrick County School system. That's a dead argument in my book.

 

It also needs to be mentioned that travel time from CC to Narrows is 1:17 at best (mapquest).

 

My opinion is CC needs to man up and head to the Peidmont. No it does not take 1:45 minutes to get to Bassett, Patrick, Martinsville...ect.

 

In that article, the case is made that CC is not that good and has never won a state title. That may be true now but they can be very good in the future while facing Narrows and Bland. Not too mention that Galax and Grayson for that matter was very poor in football until recently. Who's to say they dont have a decline sooner than later. It's gonna be funny when CC starts hanging MED banners....LOL.

[sixcat 2,923]

Keep in mind that Frank Beamer was raised in good old Carroll County. Hmmmmm. Maybe that's where he learned to make excuses and dodge opponents? Naw, that was in the good ol' days before consolidation and messageboards. That was an era when Hillsville High School had nearly as many kids on their varisty as CCHS has today!

 

I'm not a VT fan so that means nothing to me.

 

I would not be surprised if Hillsville High had as many varsity players as CCHS has today, though. Parts of Carroll County are far removed from Hillsville so it stands to reason, the vast majority of athletes at CCHS come from Hillsville and a close proximity to the town even today, which could also explain why Hillsville High had as many varsity players as CCHS does even today. The majority of athletes are still coming from the same general area.

[sixcat 2,923]

I find some of these arguments to be ridiculous. School buses travel lover's leap and Woolwine Mountain (much worse BTW) everyday in the Patrick County School system. That's a dead argument in my book.

 

It also needs to be mentioned that travel time from CC to Narrows is 1:17 at best (mapquest).

 

My opinion is CC needs to man up and head to the Peidmont. No it does not take 1:45 minutes to get to Bassett, Patrick, Martinsville...ect.

 

In that article, the case is made that CC is not that good and has never won a state title. That may be true now but they can be very good in the future while facing Narrows and Bland. Not too mention that Galax and Grayson for that matter was very poor in football until recently. Who's to say they dont have a decline sooner than later. It's gonna be funny when CC starts hanging MED banners....LOL.

 

Carroll County already plays every MED school in every sport other than football with the exception of Narrows and Bland. It has also been pointed out repeatedly on this topic that No "A" school would have to play Carroll ("AAAA") under the proposed format. The VHSL has already set precedent with this by the way it set up the River Ridge and Colonial districts.

[Huntercav 10]

I am not a VT either and you were not the primary audience targeted by that comment. I would have sent you a private message if it was solely intended for your enjoyment or lack thereof. However, you did offer that Carroll doesn't play a very competitive schedule early on in this thread (a discussion that accompanies most every VT team's schedule on a local and national level).

 

Your assumption on the population of students participating in sports would be true of most any school in terms of proximity of the populous to the school? It's not that simple in Carroll County and "Activity Buses" run in the evenings to accommodate some of the travel hardships. Certainly travel precludes some kids from participating, as do work schedules, academics, and most any other variable that exists at any school. I don't buy the travel assertions in terms of participant turnout or district assignments.

 

The bottom line for me in this discussion keeps coming back to the very basic issue of CCHS not having strong programs with most all of their sports on either side of the isle. Most of it starts out with an underdeveloped recreation program for the younger ages and becomes obvious by the high school years. It is a shared issue between the community and the school. A program builder in football would be a nice start to solving a lot of the participation issues. Funny how winning covers a multitude of sins and losing brings out the ugliness in most everybody.

[redtiger 1,742]

Im gonna go a little off topic here but can anyone explain to me why a district containing Carroll, Grayson, Marion, Abingdon and Pulaski hasnt been proposed?

 

That would solve the issues of where to place Marion and Carroll as well as putting Abingdon in a district with like sized schools. Not to mention the schools on the outer edges of that district could play the nearby schools from other districts.

 

Now that I think about it, that has been mentioned before but not in this thread

Edited August 30, 2012 by redtiger

[cityofRaven 2,451]

Im gonna go a little off topic here but can anyone explain to me why a district containing Carroll, Grayson, Marion, Abingdon and Pulaski hasnt been proposed?

 

That would solve the issues of where to place Marion and Carroll as well as putting Abingdon in a district with like sized schools. Not to mention the schools on the outer edges of that district could play the nearby schools from other districts.

 

Now that I think about it, that has been mentioned before but not in this thread

 

That would make sense....probably why it hasn't happened yet.

[sixcat 2,923]

I am not so sure that every county school has the types of problems Carroll has. An example would be Fries. Fries is divided in almost equal parts between Carroll County and Grayson County yet the overwhelming majority of Fries kids attend Grayson County schools. If I am not mistaken, Carroll County activity buses only run to Woodlawn, leaving the Cliffview, Iron Ridge and Fries kids to get the additional 15 or more miles home on their own. The Fries kids, in turn, choose to go to Grayson, play sports, and get front door service by the school system, so they do. When Fries closed its doors, Carroll fought tooth and nail to not have to send buses to "that side of the river". I can still remember the newspaper articles from my childhood. Grayson welcomed the Fries kids with open arms and their athletic programs have benefited from that. Independence High was not very good in sports until they got the Fries kids, that is no coincidence.

 

I guess we are saying the same things, in different ways. Until Carroll changes the culture, as you said, from the ground up, it will always be that way. It has to start in the elementary schools.

[sixcat 2,923]

Im gonna go a little off topic here but can anyone explain to me why a district containing Carroll, Grayson, Marion, Abingdon and Pulaski hasnt been proposed?

 

That would solve the issues of where to place Marion and Carroll as well as putting Abingdon in a district with like sized schools. Not to mention the schools on the outer edges of that district could play the nearby schools from other districts.

 

Now that I think about it, that has been mentioned before but not in this thread

 

If I remember correctly, someone posed the very same question in a thread about where Marion would end up. As mentioned, it makes too much sense for the VHSL to make it happen.

[Huntercav 10]

Yep, I guess we are! I didn't mean to imply that all schools have the same demographics as Carroll. Certainly your illustration with Fries is a good one. They have a separate recreation department for the younger ages and I can't readily think of one kid from that area in the last 15-20 years who didn't attend Grayson. Certainly, Grayson County had more challenges than just Fries with the entire Mt. Rogers School issues (not to mention Oak Hill Academy for basketball) and their proximity to NC. As you stated, the culture must change and that will take more than a few years or an assignment to another district. When I got back into "coaching" at the recreation level when my son was in the 6-7 grades, we had 4 teams with 26 players a piece (Fries had their own team). That's 104 kids out for football in two grades. His 8th grade team had about 40 kids on it. Suffice it to say that travel didn't magically become an issue from the 7th to the 8th grade. Hunter graduated in 2009 and the football teams he played on got progressively less competitive as numbers dwindled. Interesting that this year's varsity has as many kids as our last 7th grade team!

[ISOaPBR 15]

Good to hear your input Huntercav. I always enjoy reading your take on things.

[Huntercav 10]

Thanks ISO- I laughed out loud-literally- at a few of your responses in this thread!