Union vs Abingdon

[HaloSports2 35]

i have read this post and have seen all the talk about the defense being the problem but no one has discussed the 4 turnovers, 3 giving central a short field, and 3 by the offense.  i'm not saying the defense wasnt at fault and i dont care about the game.  just seems the offense also can be blamed.  maybe it was discussed in the central/union thread i haven't been on in some time and havent read through that one yet. 

[Union_Fan 2,155]

8 minutes ago, HaloSports2 said:

i have read this post and have seen all the talk about the defense being the problem but no one has discussed the 4 turnovers, 3 giving central a short field, and 3 by the offense.  i'm not saying the defense wasnt at fault and i dont care about the game.  just seems the offense also can be blamed.  maybe it was discussed in the central/union thread i haven't been on in some time and havent read through that one yet. 

It was discussed some. Probably more in the stands. I think the turning point was the muffed punt. There was a huge difference in the players' demeanor after that. They were flat coming in,  but seemed completely deflated after that.

[TaterHater 89]

Getting back to Union vs Abingdon........Abg is going to come at Union with a 5-2 base (3 man front if you only count down lineman 🙂) I'm going to compare them against Christiansburg since they have a similar offensive scheme when you take the T way from Union.

Against Christiansburg they had the weak side DE play a wide 9 technique when CB ran single wing. CB had pretty good success running the single wing and single back spread. CB could also throw the ball pretty well so that may have helped with run lanes.

CB ran a 4-4 defense against Abingdon. Most of Abingdon's yardage on runs was outside the tackle. Number 24 will be hard to tackle not sure how Union's undersized OLB will fare in this game.   

[#BBN 128]

3 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

This post and your other one, about the DE's role in Jones' D, support what @#BBN and I were trying to say. I don't think we were saying it was a 3 man front specifically because there were 3 men down. @foosballer was asking were the term 3 man front was coming from, and I referenced the 3 men down because the DE's were just standing there.

I agree wholeheartedly that in Jones' D, he ran a 4 man front because of the role of the DE's. Against Central, there may have been 5 guys on the LOS, but only 3 were actually engaging the OL, the other 2 were essentially taken out of the action.

I agree @Union_Fan, we had 3 guys engaging with the offensive line, the DE's were out of the play before it ever started. With a DE standing up, you basically just have to get in his way to block him, instead of engaging contact and pushing him out of the way. No matter what Central kicked Unions butt all over the field, and was the better team that night.

I watched some of the Richlands game, and for the first quarter Union looked like world beaters, and then they start backing off, and not burying a team and finishing them off.

I hope Union don't go to Abingdon with the same defensive scheme as they had against Central or Union will be in for a long night. I know you have to mix it up, but Union better come ready, Abingdon has a solid offensive line, good backs, and their passing game is not bad at all!!

[#BBN 128]

36 minutes ago, HaloSports2 said:

i have read this post and have seen all the talk about the defense being the problem but no one has discussed the 4 turnovers, 3 giving central a short field, and 3 by the offense.  i'm not saying the defense wasnt at fault and i dont care about the game.  just seems the offense also can be blamed.  maybe it was discussed in the central/union thread i haven't been on in some time and havent read through that one yet. 

Union came out trying to spread Central out, and Central done a pretty good job of keeping Union in check. I was pretty shocked, that we didn't see a lot more T backfield, and some quick pitches outside, to get Central chasing, and then bust it back up the middle to Lomax.......

The passing game could be very efficient, and I believe Bunch has the ability to make throws, but this comes down to some of the WR's slowly jogging off the ball if the play is not to them, and then they know they have a chance of making a play, they come off the ball wide open.....I am not mentioning any names because its not just one receiver doing this. What happened to going all out, all the time, for your team, your buddies, your coaches, and your town, instead of being upset and not giving your all because you didn't get to make a highlight play??

[sup_rbeast 296]

8 hours ago, BigWinners said:

Do you think that could work now against a team like RV that likes to go four and five wide? I'm genuinely interested. It just seems so much harder to defend all that space if your ILBs are clogged up inside and you're asking the OLBs to cover slot guys on routes. You can always sit back in a zone but every zone has holes, esp if the OLBs aren't as fast and athletic as the slot guys. If you have the S be involved, that removes all help deep and leaves DBs on an island with no help. A WR will eventually get one over the top if the offense knows the outside has no help unless both corners are very, very good in man coverage and can match speed with the WR.

Yes, it would work.  In that defense, the OLBs were some of the most athletic guys on the team (if you don't have those types of players to put there, the D struggles.  That's why lots of smaller schools struggle to run that defense).  As far as covering WRs, the CBs took the widest receivers.  If there were multiple receivers to one side, the OLBs split the difference between the last guy on the line and the second receiver from the outside.  If he started hurting the D, then the OLB would walk all the way out to him.  The safety usually had the TE, and that was the weakness.  If the TE started causing havoc, the weak ILB would end up in coverage on him.  The weak ILB always had a drop on passing downs anyway.  Actually, all the LBs had a coverage area if they weren't sent on something else.  That said, against pass heavy teams who hardly would run, PV would occasionally go to a 3 man line with a single DT shading the center to the strong side of the field while replacing the other DT with an extra LB.  That was the alignment used in the 1989 Region D playoff game vs. Coeburn when the record for interceptions in a regional playoff game was set with 6 picks.

[sup_rbeast 296]

17 minutes ago, #BBN said:

I agree @Union_Fan, we had 3 guys engaging with the offensive line, the DE's were out of the play before it ever started. With a DE standing up, you basically just have to get in his way to block him, instead of engaging contact and pushing him out of the way. No matter what Central kicked Unions butt all over the field, and was the better team that night.

I watched some of the Richlands game, and for the first quarter Union looked like world beaters, and then they start backing off, and not burying a team and finishing them off.

I hope Union don't go to Abingdon with the same defensive scheme as they had against Central or Union will be in for a long night. I know you have to mix it up, but Union better come ready, Abingdon has a solid offensive line, good backs, and their passing game is not bad at all!!

If the DE is playing a solid technique and attacking the OT, you have to do a lot more than just get in his way to block him.  If you could roll just anyone out there to play that position effectively, everyone would have an all world DE.

[#BBN 128]

1 minute ago, sup_rbeast said:

If the DE is playing a solid technique and attacking the OT, you have to do a lot more than just get in his way to block him.  If you could roll just anyone out there to play that position effectively, everyone would have an all world DE.

I agree with you, but just saying from watching the game, the DE's definitely did not attack the OT........heck the whole defense didn't really attack anything that night. I will give it to #50 he played his tail off against Central!

[sup_rbeast 296]

8 hours ago, BigWinners said:

From my perspective, it was always the goal to control both arms. Can't let the DE keep his outside arm free to play the sweep.  

If the DE can't keep his outside leverage on outside runs, he shouldn't be a DE for long. lol

[#BBN 128]

1 minute ago, sup_rbeast said:

If the DE can't keep his outside leverage on outside runs, he shouldn't be a DE for long. lol

True!! I see so many DE's get sucked inside at this level!

[Union_Fan 2,155]

26 minutes ago, foosballer said:

Getting back to Union vs Abingdon........Abg is going to come at Union with a 5-2 base (3 man front if you only count down lineman 🙂) I'm going to compare them against Christiansburg since they have a similar offensive scheme when you take the T way from Union.

Against Christiansburg they had the weak side DE play a wide 9 technique when CB ran single wing. CB had pretty good success running the single wing and single back spread. CB could also throw the ball pretty well so that may have helped with run lanes.

CB ran a 4-4 defense against Abingdon. Most of Abingdon's yardage on runs was outside the tackle. Number 24 will be hard to tackle not sure how Union's undersized OLB will fare in this game.   

I haven't watched anything on Christiansburg against Abingdon nor against Central. I did watch Abingdon/GC. I know that Abingdon had a small amount of time to prepare for that game, but GC really came out and smacked them in the mouth. Hoping if the Bears come out fired up they will do the same. I'm more concerned with the Falcons beating us with the pass than the run. Maybe the rain will work to our advantage in that department. If the LB's pay close enough attention, they will see that the FB telegraphs the play on most downs when they are in the I formation.

[sup_rbeast 296]

1 minute ago, #BBN said:

True!! I see so many DE's get sucked inside at this level!

Yes.  It's beyond ridiculous sometimes.  Regionwide, the overall lack of fundamental skills and discipline in many of the players on most all of the teams seems to have increased significantly over the past few years.  Especially so when it comes down to football IQ that can really only be obtained through watching games or film.

[#BBN 128]

26 minutes ago, sup_rbeast said:

Yes.  It's beyond ridiculous sometimes.  Regionwide, the overall lack of fundamental skills and discipline in many of the players on most all of the teams seems to have increased significantly over the past few years.  Especially so when it comes down to football IQ that can really only be obtained through watching games or film.

I can remember playing in the good old days, and after you played Friday night, we went in Saturday morning and watched the game film. Sometimes it was embarrassing to see how dumb you looked on certain plays, but it definitely was worth it as far as improving football IQ, and showing you what you needed to do to improve!

[BigWinners 1,643]

1 hour ago, #BBN said:

I can remember playing in the good old days, and after you played Friday night, we went in Saturday morning and watched the game film. Sometimes it was embarrassing to see how dumb you looked on certain plays, but it definitely was worth it as far as improving football IQ, and showing you what you needed to do to improve!

Saturday?? Seems to be I always remember a buncha kids, especially a couple years older, woulda been feelin way too rough to get up and go early Saturday, and not just from bumps and bruises, esp after a win lolol. It doesn't surprise me you went early Saturday but you prob had to go drag rest of em outta their own beds (or someone else's lol).

[#BBN 128]

37 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Saturday?? Seems to be I always remember a buncha kids, especially a couple years older, woulda been feelin way too rough to get up and go early Saturday, and not just from bumps and bruises, esp after a win lolol. It doesn't surprise me you went early Saturday but you prob had to go drag rest of em outta their own beds (or someone else's lol).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA🤣, I didn't say I felt like going, but it was kind of one of those things that if you weren't there, you had it coming on Monday evening at practice!!!

[BigWinners 1,643]

41 minutes ago, #BBN said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA🤣, I didn't say I felt like going, but it was kind of one of those things that if you weren't there, you had it coming on Monday evening at practice!!!

Some of em would come by the house in the mornin to drag me outta bed and make sure I made it there in the summer. I swear I believe Phil put them up to it, he knew that left up to me, I'd be there a half hour late lolol

 

Even after I quit, Phil and I remained friends and he kept trying to get me to go back out, but it's the damndest thing, I think I spent more time practicing against you guys than I got to with my class. I quit before our class ruled the locker room, so I spent more time around you guys. I never was there Monday tho, that was my JV day. Tues and Wed, I was up there getting my ass kicked. I gotta give y'all credit,you really coulda been rough on us younger kids but I always felt like everything was in good nature and without actual harm. I feel like at other places, the older kids aren't always as welcoming and helpful to the young kids and it shows. At least during my time, the culture was always very good and the older classes helped the young kids learn the ropes instead of being total dicks or just not engaging them. The two of three baddest dudes on that team, dudes that would crack skulls on Friday (and on Tuesday and Wed against a fat young freshman just trying to stay off the ground lol) were some of my better buddies on the team but the dudes that intimidated the hell out of me were the big offensive linemen I didn't know as well. 

I got super off topic but the point was that the culture I remember at PV when I was in school was a very good culture and that came from you guys. And I'm sure you learned it from the older guys when y'all were young. Seemed like Phil and the staff did a pretty good job of building the program constantly and not just relying on one or two super talented kids (although we had those too) and throwing together a patchwork team. 

[sup_rbeast 296]

3 hours ago, #BBN said:

I can remember playing in the good old days, and after you played Friday night, we went in Saturday morning and watched the game film. Sometimes it was embarrassing to see how dumb you looked on certain plays, but it definitely was worth it as far as improving football IQ, and showing you what you needed to do to improve!

We always watched film on Mondays before we went out and set up our O and D for the coming game.  Basically a walk thru and an extra day to recuperate before the wars that were Tuesday and Wednesday practices.  That said, Saturdays and Sundays were spent watching football all day long, and even that helps develop a player's mind.

[S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE 239]

After film,  it looks as if union does have a 3 man front,  outside guys on line are lbs.  If they can get back to what they do well,  make people adapt for them on both sides of the ball then it could be a very interesting game. I like the fact that winning the district does have a little more importance this season.  Good luck to both. 

[#BBN 128]

6 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

We always watched film on Mondays before we went out and set up our O and D for the coming game.  Basically a walk thru and an extra day to recuperate before the wars that were Tuesday and Wednesday practices.  That said, Saturdays and Sundays were spent watching football all day long, and even that helps develop a player's mind.

We watched on Saturday mornings, around 9 and was home on the couch at 12 watching football and nursing any injuries, and then on Monday we always watched a little before we went out for practice!! We had some Mondays that was just helmet and shoulder pads, but as I got older those disappeared and we were full pads Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday!!

Nothing like the good ol days!!! Definitely some of the best times of my life, playing with some of my life long best friends, that I still see and stay in contact with to this day!!!

[BigWinners 1,643]

2 hours ago, #BBN said:

We watched on Saturday mornings, around 9 and was home on the couch at 12 watching football and nursing any injuries, and then on Monday we always watched a little before we went out for practice!! We had some Mondays that was just helmet and shoulder pads, but as I got older those disappeared and we were full pads Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday!!

Nothing like the good ol days!!! Definitely some of the best times of my life, playing with some of my life long best friends, that I still see and stay in contact with to this day!!!

As long as it's not a large crowd, no one can spot you because you're too damn short to spot lolol. We need to play cards sometime, your wife and I kicked y'alls ass lol

[sup_rbeast 296]

3 hours ago, #BBN said:

We watched on Saturday mornings, around 9 and was home on the couch at 12 watching football and nursing any injuries, and then on Monday we always watched a little before we went out for practice!! We had some Mondays that was just helmet and shoulder pads, but as I got older those disappeared and we were full pads Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday!!

Nothing like the good ol days!!! Definitely some of the best times of my life, playing with some of my life long best friends, that I still see and stay in contact with to this day!!!

Every year I was there was the same after the regular season started. Monday was helmet and shoulder pads to set the O and D after watching film. Full gear on Tuesday for Defense and on Wednesday for Offense. Helmets on Thursday for a walk thru. Special teams were practiced every day in one form or another.

[packattack2021 0]

Back when I played in school.......we did stuff so much better.....and stuff...

By the Transitive Property of Mountain 7 Football Falcons should win by 2 TDs.....

I think the train horn though makes all the difference in this one and Abingdon misses an extra point and only wins by 13

[1inStripes 932]

20 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

We always watched film on Mondays before we went out and set up our O and D for the coming game.  Basically a walk thru and an extra day to recuperate before the wars that were Tuesday and Wednesday practices.  That said, Saturdays and Sundays were spent watching football all day long, and even that helps develop a player's mind.

Under Wampler at RC we had film on Monday with helmets only afterward to setup for the week, Tuesday O, Wednesday D and light on Thursday.  When Sarge came back, as I am sure you are familiar with working with him, it was a bit of a shock to us strapping the pads on Monday and going full steam for three days with rep after rep after rep.  I see the useful side to both practices.

 

 

 

[sup_rbeast 296]

1 hour ago, 1inStripes said:

Under Wampler at RC we had film on Monday with helmets only afterward to setup for the week, Tuesday O, Wednesday D and light on Thursday.  When Sarge came back, as I am sure you are familiar with working with him, it was a bit of a shock to us strapping the pads on Monday and going full steam for three days with rep after rep after rep.  I see the useful side to both practices.

 

 

 

Yeah, Sarge liked full gear every day except Thursday, and then he would still require helmets and shoulder pads. As the year would go on, he would limit contact more and more each week as players got banged up, though. He felt like players needed to be in full gear as much as possible regardless of the day in order to just be accustomed to having it on. With him, you didn’t watch a whole lot of film, either, unless you were a coach. As a coach with him, you watched a ton of it getting the team ready for Friday nights. He did things a bit differently, but he got results, too.

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

Abingdon 28, Bears 24. 

Kind of quietly in my opinion, Abingdon has become more than just "being competitive with the Heavy Weights in Southwestern VA". Abingdon has become a formidable and legitimate roughly 7 to 10th best Class 3 school in Virginia. I think the Falcons are closer to the 10 spot than they are the 1 spot in Class 3, but Abingdons program to me, only my opinion, has become a legit year in and year out top 10 Class 3 program.

The M7 is a dam# good mostly Class 2 district and Abingdon is beginning to have their way with these schools. That's no disrespect to the M7 schools like Union, Central, RV, it's just giving respect to Abingdon.