Region 2D Predictions? Boys

[sixcat 2,919]

16 hours ago, Fairlawncat said:

I think Coach Cormany was wrong for having us play JM for the title game last year. We should have set it out. 

Cormany was the head basketball coach at Grayson County when I was in high school. The Cormany I remember is far too competitive in nature to quit. He's also perceptive enough to understand how important the experience of playing in a state tournament can be for the future of the kids he coaches and the community in general. Those kids learned a valuable lesson. Life isn't always fair. That doesn't mean you roll over and play dead.

I'm not sure how teaching kids to quit when things get hard is worth an attempt to send a message to VH$L they aren't going to understand anyway.

[BlueDevil4Life2008 35]

The problem isn't with John Marshall playing for a state final every year.  It is how they are doing it.  When you bring in players from New York, North Carolina, Georgia, Baltimore that are Division 1 recruits from other prep schools and are ranked in the top of their state to play at a Class 2 public school.  That is where the problem lies.  The coach will say over and over that he and his staff does not recruit kids to come to John Marshall yet when you ask him how kids from these states end up in his program when they are already at top prep schools anyway then he can't give you an answer and all you hear are crickets.   That's the problem with John Marshall.  Besides... that fact that Richmond city has nearly a quarter of a million people inside its city limits at 226,000 and has a Class 3 school in Thomas Jefferson and a Class 2 school in John Marshall is downright laughable. 

You could add up the population of the top 7 communities in the state quarterfinals and leave John Marshall out and you would be hard pressed for those 7 communities to equal the population of Richmond.   Even with that .. when you have a population of nearly 250000 people and you still have to bring in top talent to your school to play.  That doesn't say a whole lot about Richmond in general.  If you think I am lying about them bringing in talent from other states, do your research and see where their talent came from the past three or four years.  I promise you that the almighty Ty White didn't develop his talent in his own middle school or JV program.  That's a promise.  

In my opinion, with Virginia passing the NIL and everythng.  Then John Marshall has done went and set the precedent for every team in the state to go ahead and build their own superteam.  And until someone or a few schools in the state do that then nothing will ever change. 

[sixcat 2,919]

22 minutes ago, BlueDevil4Life2008 said:

The problem isn't with John Marshall playing for a state final every year.  It is how they are doing it.

I disagree. JM is playing within the parameters of the VH$L rules. There is no real difference between what JM is doing and what Liberty Christian Academy is doing.  

The problem lies solely with VH$L!!! 

The lawsuit LCA won against VHSL in 2015 opened the door for what essentially amounts to legalized recruiting. I'm not a lawyer but I would imaging VHSL would have a difficult time from a legal perspective trying to reprimand one school for recruiting while being forced to allow it through the LCA court ruling. 

[F@lcon 47]

The sad part is that you could probably take top players from region C/D this season on one team and JM still wins easily

[BigWinners 1,643]

3 hours ago, F@lcon said:

The sad part is that you could probably take top players from region C/D this season on one team and JM still wins easily

You could build an all star team from the entirety of 2A and 1A and still lose by 50

[TheDuke 13]

It doesn't matter how or why JM is doing it, or if it somehow falls within the rules of the VHSL. They are clearly on another level from everyone else in the state. 

High school classifications exist for the SOLE reason of promoting fairness. If we don't care about fairness let's just do like KY and everybody play everybody for the state. 

Everyone knows it's a joke, some of the Class 2 administrators need to make a stand and say enough with this crap, we aren't going along with this farce. Make them play Class 6 or something and allow the real class 2 schools to play each other. 

How on earth Ty White and his team would even WANT a bunch of Class 2 trophies is beyond me. I mean, you got a team full of power 5 players, congrats for being the best of 50 class 2 schools who might have a handful of low level college players on all 50 teams combined. Where is their pride???

What if Oak Hill didn't exist and Steve Smith just decided to coach Marion and bring all those guys in and Marion mopped the floor with every team in the state for years and years. You think the folks on the other side of the state would have been ok with that? Absolutely not. 

[sixcat 2,919]

17 minutes ago, TheDuke said:

What if Oak Hill didn't exist and Steve Smith just decided to coach Marion and bring all those guys in and Marion mopped the floor with every team in the state for years and years.

Steve Smith hasn’t coached since Covid. He’s available if Marion wants to shoot their shot and try to draw him out of retirement!!!

[Bearcat Bob 491]

On 2/23/2024 at 9:58 AM, sixcat said:

I disagree. JM is playing within the parameters of the VH$L rules. There is no real difference between what JM is doing and what Liberty Christian Academy is doing.  

The problem lies solely with VH$L!!! 

The lawsuit LCA won against VHSL in 2015 opened the door for what essentially amounts to legalized recruiting. I'm not a lawyer but I would imaging VHSL would have a difficult time from a legal perspective trying to reprimand one school for recruiting while being forced to allow it through the LCA court ruling. 

There is a helluva difference between what JM is doing and LCA. LCA is a private school and charges tuition for the privilege of going there.  (Im not a fan of LCA or other private schools being allowed in the VHSL either.) JM is a public school offering a private school program for no additional cost.  At a golf tournament last fall in Richmond, an area HS coach advised that some JM players actually attend Richmond Community School; the only time they set foot on JM grounds is game days and maybe practices. JM is culpable for abusing the system. How can the AAU coach also coach the same kids in HS?  I coached HS baseball and was forbidden to coach the same kids in summer tourneys. The VHSL is culpable as well. They are scared of JM and that situation. Somebody might call them racist if they asked questions. 

[sixcat 2,919]

41 minutes ago, Bearcat Bob said:

There is a helluva difference between what JM is doing and LCA. LCA is a private school and charges tuition for the privilege of going there.  (Im not a fan of LCA or other private schools being allowed in the VHSL either.) JM is a public school offering a private school program for no additional cost.  

If you believe any of the athletes from all over the country LCA is stacking teams with are paying tuition for the privilege, I’ve got some ocean front property in Fries I’d love to sell you!!!

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

1 hour ago, Bearcat Bob said:

There is a helluva difference between what JM is doing and LCA. LCA is a private school and charges tuition for the privilege of going there.  (Im not a fan of LCA or other private schools being allowed in the VHSL either.) JM is a public school offering a private school program for no additional cost.  At a golf tournament last fall in Richmond, an area HS coach advised that some JM players actually attend Richmond Community School; the only time they set foot on JM grounds is game days and maybe practices. JM is culpable for abusing the system. How can the AAU coach also coach the same kids in HS?  I coached HS baseball and was forbidden to coach the same kids in summer tourneys. The VHSL is culpable as well. They are scared of JM and that situation. Somebody might call them racist if they asked questions. 

There's no rule prohibiting the AAU coach from coaching the HS team, but yes........it doesn't look good.  There's no rule prohibiting the players at JM mainly attending Richmond Community School, but again.....it doesn't look good.  The fact that things "don't look to good" is the fault of the VHSL not doing anything about it and more Class 2 AD's not lobbying the VHSL to do something about it.  JM is technically breaking no rules, at least not openly or something that is overwhelmingly clear cut.  I do blame JM for not playing up in competition. That is lame.  They do have the ability to play up if they petitioned the VHSL.  They VHSL would be more than happy to take this ball of wax out of it's ear and the VHSL knows fans would complain less if JM played at higher classification and if JM requested that, I am sure the VHSL would allow it.  But, JM isn't requesting it.  If you have a guy who is the AAU Coach and Coaches High School Ball, he would more than likely argue that he loves basketball and likes being around the game and is competitive (and is he by the way) but he should have the same spirit of competitive nature and play up.  That's the part that surprises me some.

Overall, I like watching JM play.  They are fun to watch and I think their Coach is doing a great job overall and does good things for the kids and he has built that program. Only complaints I have is him not wanting to play at a higher level of competition and the VHSL not putting more rules in place regarding AAU coaching and HS coaching in the same area/region.  You open yourself up to a ton of complaints and issues when this is allowed to happen, especially when the AAU/HS Coach is in a locale that has open enrollment.  It's the perfect scenario for the situation at present for JM to happen, but again..........it's not JM's fault.

[Bearcat Bob 491]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

If you believe any of the athletes from all over the country LCA is stacking teams with are paying tuition for the privilege, I’ve got some ocean front property in Fries I’d love to sell you!!!

LCA is a private school and does not pretend otherwise. Either the students pay tuition or get scholarships; somebody is paying the bill. If you believe otherwise, I’ll trade some oceanfront property here on Massanutten Mountain for yours. Does LCA have deals with Adidas or other companies? Serious question…I don’t know the answer. 
 

Other sports at JM get little to NO support. The football team folded mid season this year. The baseball team had to borrow catchers equipment from the opposing teams. There is a problem with what JM is allowed to do. 

[sixcat 2,919]

5 hours ago, Bearcat Bob said:

 There is a problem with what JM is allowed to do. 

If you’re speaking in terms of academics or full athletic department support, JM and LCA aren’t in the same stratosphere. But we’re not are we? The context of this discussion within this thread is solely about the classification they play in. Nothing else!
 

You even bolster my argument with your last sentence quoted above. JM is allowed to do what they do because VHSL allows it following the LCA court ruling. JM is playing by the rules set forth by the governing body. Based on enrollment, which is the sole criteria VHSL uses for classification, JM and LCA are doing nothing wrong. Furthermore, based on the court ruling in 2015, it’s clear VHSL can’t discriminate based on recruiting profile or footprint. If they could, LCA would still be playing in the private school ranks. 
 

Don’t hate the players, hate the game. VHSL is the game. Their lack of oversight is why we’re in this situation. 
 

 

[Bearcat Bob 491]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

If you’re speaking in terms of academics or full athletic department support, JM and LCA aren’t in the same stratosphere. But we’re not are we? The context of this discussion within this thread is solely about the classification they play in. Nothing else!
 

You even bolster my argument with your last sentence quoted above. JM is allowed to do what they do because VHSL allows it following the LCA court ruling. JM is playing by the rules set forth by the governing body. Based on enrollment, which is the sole criteria VHSL uses for classification, JM and LCA are doing nothing wrong. Furthermore, based on the court ruling in 2015, it’s clear VHSL can’t discriminate based on recruiting profile or footprint. If they could, LCA would still be playing in the private school ranks. 
 

Don’t hate the players, hate the game. VHSL is the game. Their lack of oversight is why we’re in this situation. 
 

 

And the classification should be based on the enrollment of JM and Richmond Community School (if that is where the players actually attend). 
 

Nothing against the players. They are teenagers being used by adults. They are getting a private school program experience at no cost. I’d do it too if I was a teenager. The culprits are the JM/Team Loaded coaches, the school administrators, Adidas and the VHSL for lack of oversight. 

[Bluefield researcher 1,195]

Honest question. Do you think the VHSL "likes" what is going on or are they just handcuffed by the lack of finances to fight it?

[Bearcat Bob 491]

41 minutes ago, Bluefield researcher said:

Honest question. Do you think the VHSL "likes" what is going on or are they just handcuffed by the lack of finances to fight it?

Like it? No. Finances? No. Political? Yes!  If they take action, the headline for the ESPN Outside the Lines special is already written.

[sixcat 2,919]

16 minutes ago, Bluefield researcher said:

Honest question. Do you think the VHSL "likes" what is going on or are they just handcuffed by the lack of finances to fight it?

I don’t think they “like” it. I think they are somewhat handcuffed based on the court ruling. VHSL can no longer reprimand schools for recruiting while being forced to guarantee schools like LCA and JM participation.

VHSL wasn’t proactive during the rise of recruiting with Salem, Hampton, Martinsville, etc. As a result, painted themselves into a corner. LCA’s attorneys took that opportunity to galvanize their ruling in court. Which all but guaranteed JM couldn’t be punished for their actions. 
 

What JM and LCA are doing may not be ethical. But it’s certainly not illegal and well within the current guidelines of VHSL. 
 

To summarize, VHSL most likely doesn’t like what’s happening but they are complicit in letting the situation get to where it’s at now. 

[Bearcat Bob 491]

3 minutes ago, sixcat said:

I don’t think they “like” it. I think they are somewhat handcuffed based on the court ruling. VHSL can no longer reprimand schools for recruiting while being forced to guarantee schools like LCA and JM participation.

VHSL wasn’t proactive during the rise of recruiting with Salem, Hampton, Martinsville, etc. As a result, painted themselves into a corner. LCA’s attorneys took that opportunity to galvanize their ruling in court. Which all but guaranteed JM couldn’t be punished for their actions. 
 

What JM and LCA are doing may not be ethical. But it’s certainly not illegal and well within the current guidelines of VHSL. 
 

To summarize, VHSL most likely doesn’t like what’s happening but they are complicit in letting the situation get to where it’s at now. 

I don’t have your LCA knowledge. What residency requirement do they have to attend?  I know that Loudoun County and the City of Richmond allow students residing in their jurisdictions to attend any school in those jurisdictions as long as they provide their own transportation. 

[sixcat 2,919]

1 minute ago, Bearcat Bob said:

I don’t have your LCA knowledge. What residency requirement do they have to attend?  I know that Loudoun County and the City of Richmond allow students residing in their jurisdictions to attend any school in those jurisdictions as long as they provide their own transportation. 

LCA has no jurisdictional governance. They are a private school open to anyone they decide to admit.
 

Those students are guaranteed VHSL eligibility through the court ruling in 2015 so long as they meet all academic requirements. The only real difference between a private school participating in VHSL and a private school participating in the VISAA is the 5th year of eligibility in varsity competition. 
 

Any public high school in Virginia is free and clear to do with their athletics department, exactly what JM is currently doing within its basketball program. VHSL is powerless to stop it based on the court ruling. 

[sixcat 2,919]

I will add to the above, Virginia is hardly alone in this regard. Go look at what Pennsylvania started doing in 2018 based on private schools moving into public school competition with unfair advantages. 

[Bearcat Bob 491]

Forgive me for being obtuse…I am seriously interested in this because it sounds much different than what i thought I knew. So any student can attend and play for LCA regardless of where they reside solely because LCA is a private school?  But I thought public schools were still bound by jurisdictional boundaries. That’s not the case?  If it’s not, I guess there is no gripe with JM. But I can’t seem to wrap my mind around a public school with no jurisdictional restrictions. 

[sixcat 2,919]

8 minutes ago, Bearcat Bob said:

So any student can attend and play for LCA regardless of where they reside solely because LCA is a private school?  

Correct. 
 

8 minutes ago, Bearcat Bob said:

But I thought public schools were still bound by jurisdictional boundaries. That’s not the case?  

By the letter of the law, jurisdictional boundaries still apply to public high schools. However, VHSL fears another lawsuit and will likely not pursue any action against the likes of JM. 
 

How can VHSL enforce jurisdictional boundaries against JM while being court ordered to allow LCA to to do whatever it wants? The court ruling set precedent. JM would simply take VHSL to court and would have a strong argument. 

[Bearcat Bob 491]

Thanks for the insight. So in reality, population centers basically have free run to draw students/athletes while rural VA is very limited…unless some benefactor makes it worthwhile. 
 

NIL ruined college sports (IMHO) and this may well wreck VA high school sports. 
 

i guess I am just too old school. I liked following teams that were homegrown.

[sixcat 2,919]

2 minutes ago, Bearcat Bob said:

Thanks for the insight. So in reality, population centers basically have free run to draw students/athletes while rural VA is very limited…unless some benefactor makes it worthwhile. 

Pretty much, yes. And more will take advantage going forward. It’s essentially a free pass to cheat and VHSL is powerless to stop it under the current rules

[Bearcat Bob 491]

I guess if VHS were to partner with Hardrock Casino, they could give players room and board.  Then recruit for every sport and build dynasties!  

[sixcat 2,919]

13 minutes ago, Bearcat Bob said:

I guess if VHS were to partner with Hardrock Casino, they could give players room and board.  Then recruit for every sport and build dynasties!  

It sounds somewhat facetious but in reality, whats stopping anyone from doing that?

Seriously, go read articles and watch YouTube videos of what schools in inner-city Philadelphia were doing that forced Pennsylvania to make drastic changes. It makes what JM is doing seem tame.