A lot of good football players in our area are also soccer players.
If I was a football coach I would encourage my players to play soccer. The conditioning and physicality of it translates well.
I think this is a fair point.
Baseball is certainly favored in this area per tradition and some personal preferences, but I certainly concede that soccer skills and conditioning are certainly more transferable to not only football, but other areas of health and every day life.
Just my opinion, but I think my RB and WRs benefit from the sprints and cutting while playing soccer more than running the bases 3-4 times per game and/or tracking down a handful of fly balls in the outfield.
I think a deterrent in some places are the facilities. The turf fields are designed for multiple sports. Richlands and Honaker for example play soccer on the football fields. Scheduling both during the same season would be a nightmare. Assuming soccer is relegated to a different location, the costs rise again to maintain the field in a separate location. It’s not impossible, but certainly the money is a factor when making those decisions.
Call me sentimental, but I miss the grass field.
Now, I wouldn’t want to be responsible for upkeep, but I wholeheartedly believe that natural grass results in fewer injuries. I occasionally miss the dealing with the elements when a team that relies on power suddenly has an advantage when it comes to rain, snow, and mud.
But other than the D1 seniors that you mentioned Princeton only had a couple more than actually contributed.
They’ll be returning the majority of starters next season and will have the benefit of a much more even playing field in the playoffs.
Bluefield/Princeton/Graham have been sharing kids around for years with Princeton usually coming up on the shorter end of all of the moves.
However, Princeton has gotten the better of Bluefield over the last few years. That helps them from losing kids to Bluefield & with a kid of Jennings’ caliber leaving Graham to go back to Princeton I’d imagine that will hurt the Princeton —-> Graham pipeline.
Now they have the benefit of having a young energetic coach, multiple kids playing division 1 and a taste of success. And finally it seemed like the community has really rallied behind them. Hunnicutt is a big stadium and they were filling up the home stands.
Usually I would be on your side on all of this but I believe Princeton has had the perfect storm of events go their way in the last 6 months. I’m weirdly optimistic that they have turned the corner.
This sums it up nicely and gives my post greater context.
Sometimes, timing is everything. No matter the past, reclassification is huge.
Look no further than Riverheads. They are still successful with similar enrollments, but are unlikely to dominate as they did in Class 1/1A.The state finals appearance last season was something to be proud of, but not a foregone conclusion of a title as it became in 1A.
Princeton SHOULD compete annually, especially not facing juggernauts such as Martinsburg.
I don’t know the specifics, but reclassification really makes Princeton an attractive destination. Now, it becomes significantly easier to win a state title at Princeton than even Graham.
Under the new realignment, Princeton becomes the 5th largest of 30 schools to compete for a state title. Graham is one of the smallest schools out of nearly 50 to win a title in Virginia.
Graham has likely benefited from their neighbors’ misfortunes, partly due to Princeton’s enrollment and lack of success. Princeton has recently enjoyed an impressive record in recent years, but just couldn’t overcome much larger schools. Now, Princeton is sort of a big fish in a small pond now with some good talent to draw in the greater Mercer/McDowell/Tazewell County areas.
See the Honaker location in another thread for a good comparison.
Richlands and Lebanon misfortune (both record and Lebanon’s move up in classification) helps contribute to this other group of Tigers success in Class 1.
Are there very many in that 20's to 30's age group to choose from?
It doesn't seem like a profession the younger generation is keen on getting involved in to me. Of the two jobs locally that were open after this fall, neither had an applicant under the age of 38. That 38 year old applicant landed one of those positions and turned 39 two weeks later.
I think most in that age range are more wary of the required time commitment, combined with unrealistic expectations, and lack of security nowadays. If you want to raise a family, it’s much tougher now than in yesteryear. The stress and sacrifices are much greater with little increase in pay.
I think my original post might be getting misunderstood somewhat. I'll attempt to clarify in simpler terms.
Would coaches of past generations (70's, 80's, 90's) have been interviewed for open coaching positions based on what a 16 year old kid and his father wanted?
I think administrators back then would have told the kid and his dad to piss off.
I agree. That’s a great example of how things have changed. I guess a more appropriate response would be, they didn’t have to for a variety of reasons. It’s now a year-round commitment where job security is more closely related to results. Generally, unless results were terrible, you could retire from those positions.
Now, the individual athlete has more power than authority and the collective. A scenario that seems to compromise both sides of the fence is creating all-star teams.
On this board, we often discus how kids today are just different than they were in previous generations. I don't think anyone here will argue against that point.
The same can be said for the adults in the room. Which is something we rarely, if ever, discuss. Could you imagine for a second, administrators interviewing Phil Robbins, Joel Hicks, Willis White, Norm Lineburg, or Robert Casto based on the whims of a 16 year old kid and his overzealous father?
1 hour ago, sixcat said:
Would any of those old-school legendary coaches have cared if the transfer portal existed back then? Most of those old-school legends could beat you with theirs or turn around and beat theirs with yours.
Not to mention, they weren't being hired based on what the 16 year old QB wanted.
These are great examples on how things and people have changed. My best guess to this would be “depends upon how good” and “yes”.
I don’t believe they would have caved as easily, but primarily because they were mostly good coaches in good situations. There may be an outlier or two, but for the most part, I believe they generally had the talent already there on successful teams.
For example, if I already have a Thomas and/or Julius Jones on winning teams, I don’t have to work too hard to keep them or add talent. The coaches deserve credit for building the successful programs, though. I do believe they were already sought out for their success. Willis White had a reputation for getting the best talent in the Roanoke area, not simply what was within the Salem city limits. Just my two cents, based on an incomplete perception.
There are too many points on both sides that are hard to address. “Daddy ball” and travel sports can be both good and bad for all the reasons listed. With an excellent daddy-coach that cares about the team, the ceiling becomes close to the genetic limit. As one poster pointed out the population loss plus the need or want to specialize is a killer for the sport not chosen by the individual or school. The three-sport athlete is an endangered species. Success is no longer limited to athleticism or hard work, but how you focus that hard work. So now, we simply play sports to win a championship or earn a scholarship. The love of the game and lessons learned as a byproduct have been supplanted by winning at all costs. I’m not saying this is right or wrong, it just is. We transfer, holdback, and spend more time and money for those ends than in the past for one or two sports. In most schools the dominant sport eats up the others for those goals. Let’s use Lebanon for example. It is a “baseball” school. But sheer numbers of players should rightfully dictate greater support and attendance for football and basketball. Instead, we shouldn’t only play and support baseball because that is our best chance to win. Gate City has become a “basketball” school some because of the Mac influence, but how many players have given up playing football for the limited time they are able to play it in life to focus on basketball?
This isn’t an indictment on people’s choices. Just pointing out how that population loss and pressure to commit early has made us sell out in some sports and neglect others.
Jennings Boyd, a legendary coach and so powerful in the 70s through the early 80s in basketball it brought national attention. You stack em and rack em with the Blue Demons of Northfork in Hoops and......you would lose the overwhelming majority of the time.
Don't quote me, but I think....BluefieldResearcher would know this....Tommy Beasley might have been on that football state title team for Northfork (could be wrong though). Tommy Beasley played at Northfork, then Va Tech, then the Pittsburgh Steelers. He is the father of Chad Beasley (Gate City, VA Tech, Viking and Browns).
I remember he played for them, and maybe Duck Riley?
So happy to hear this good news. Man, her granddaddy was something special as was the entire county of Bland in basketball in the 60's and 70's. Most on here just don't know about how popular basketball was in Bland County in the 50's ,60's,and 70's and even up until the late 80's with guys like Pat Sutfin, who played at Rocky Gap and Radford University, and guys like Patrick Smith at Bland High. It was basically a county that belonged in the state of Indiana in the 50's,60's, 70's and for a part of the 80's. What got Bland County was population loss like most of SWVA counties, and Bland had little room to spare to take a population loss to begin with, but they were breeding basketball players over in that county in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Really pleased to hear this about young Danielle Sanders. Kudos to her. I had no idea Joe Stiltner still had relatives left in Bland.
This reminds me of the Northfork, WV dynamic in WV before consolidation with their basketball dynasty. They even had a football state title during that era.
I think from the perspective of Richlands folks the talk of Dennis Palmer is merely in the form of wishful thinking. They know firsthand the success Richlands had with him as defensive coordinator and maybe a bit of nostalgia.
With the exception of a few, most of the people in Richlands are excited about Davis and his ability to right the ship.
Someone referenced the state championship in softball under him. Without Osborne as pitcher, I don’t think that would have happened just like without Compton, I don’t think Tazewell wins either. No knock on either head coach both are quality guys but sometimes talent can win a championship regardless of head coach in a sport like softball.
Spot on. I agree in that it takes both coaching and talent. That’s why it’s so difficult to separate the two, even in football.
Softball is definitely the sport where you can ride a talented pitcher all the way to a title, but a lot still must go right.
It’s likely more common the most successful teams are the most talented and not just well coached. That’s why I have such a hard time as an outsider judging how good of a coach many of the local legends are comparatively. Many are probably good program builders or managers that generate excitement and support. I think many are simply at a point to “not mess it up.”
As far as coaching is concerned for reference, I believe that the Mance staff’s best coaching jobs were probably 2008 or the River Michael’s/Zeke Vance led teams. They certainly were not as talented as the state title or runner up teams, but probably maximized the talent available. I believe Ronnie Davis was present on both staffs.
I think that’s because it started with speculation of who the head coach will be, and now that it’s decided, the speculation is about staff since Ronnie Davis is a done deal.
I think earlier, I touted on his experience and knowledge sharing with his peers at both Richlands and Graham are certainly assets. He’s had success as a softball coach in the past, and while blessed with talent, a state title is still very difficult.
I believe he is eager and kids will like him and respect him. I’m confident he knows his stuff, but not being in his position group very early, I can’t vouch specifically. He really wanted this job, and I believe he certainly gives it his all.
The post that started this (Saban) was certainly an old-school coach who has had to adapt to doing things new ways for a new generation to continue success. In the NFL, Belichick could not adapt to life after Tom Brady and new ways of doing things, but it would be tough to argue against the man really knowing defense.
For the current crop of high school coaches, how have they had to adapt from the prior group of legacy coaches? In my suggestions for comparison, Carlock vs Palmer, Travis Turner vs Tom Turner/Phil Robbins, etc.
I imagine the old formula of the past no longer works without tweaks in the absence of amazing talent.
I don’t personally know Akers, nor his comparison for this post. On field results remind me somewhat of Wyatt (former Tazewell and Pocahontas coach). He seems to have a knack for making bad teams good, but not good teams great.
Just an oversimplification of thought that came to mind. Both have done great jobs with improving teams to a point.
We got one over in Giles County that has had a good run. Struggling the past 5 years, but from start to finish, not bad by any means.
Two things about this thread or points I take away. It's starting to become pretty clear by the evidence that it is tough to win at VA High and Tazewell and I'm not knocking the TTown or Bristol fans. It just is what it is in football. From Paul Wheeler to Burhead Bradley and to Crist, it ain't easy to win at VH. Look at the success those coaches had away from VH. With Tazewell, Allen's record speaks for itself now at Galax.
The above doesn't mean any coach can Never win at Tazewell/VH now or in the future in football, but it does suggest it just ain't easy to win there in football. Baseball is a whole other ballgame for both schools, consistently good for decades.
Is Williams still coach at Giles? I’m also not familiar with Lowe’s tenure at Narrows, but he seems to do a good job based upon recent seasons compared to enrollment challenges.
Now, traditionally it has been difficult to win at Virginia High and Tazewell since the championship season in 1986. I will say Tazewell has improved steadily since Harris became coach. Honestly, Tazewell’s biggest challenge currently is being located next to Graham and Richlands prior to Mance’s departure.
Honestly, in coaching for a variety of reasons, they just don’t make them like they used to make them. Longevity, and or titles are the way to go. Both would be a lock. In my opinion, without a title due to the difficulty, longevity at a particular place has the most impact. If assistant coaches included, someone like Dennis Palmer certainly fits the bill. Many others who I would normally consider, aren’t mentioned due to either not coaching last year currently. If Harris at Tazewell sticks around for a few years and has some postseason success, I could see him considered in the group evident by Tazewell’s gradual improvement and the effect on the community.
All valid points. I think Snake’s goal is probably to help the GMen get back to state and win it again at some point. He strikes as one who stays the course and would probably still be at Richlands if Mance hadn’t let him go. I guess all of the speculation will end soon! Hasn’t strength & conditioning started? If Dennis Palmer is retiring at the end of the month , I would fully expect to see him down at Richlands come February in the afternoons if he’s leaving Graham. You do drive by at Ernie Hicks come February and I’ll drive by Graham and we can compare notes 😂😂😂.
Sounds like a plan. My prediction is based upon what I think, is that he stays put. I haven’t talked to him in a while, but it’s not so easy to pick up and move when you have a family to think about, even when other family is involved. Hypothetically, if a choice is to be made between spouse and child vs parent or sibling, it’s wise to choose the former. I continue to wish him success in retirement no matter what he chooses. I would happily welcome him with open arms if he chooses to return.
If the end game was to coach together again, wouldn’t Coach Davis have just stayed at Graham? I could be wrong but I just see Snake as being too loyal and dedicated to just up and leave Graham.
I’m not speculating because why leave a good thing? Coach Davis is likely not the head coach at Graham, and I believe ultimately that is his goal to be a head coach. It’s extra special to do so at your home and alma mater. Coach Davis lives in the Richlands area, so gas money and commute are economical reasons as well.
Lots of chatter in years past that Allen benefited from Dixon’s players. Winning a state title in year 4 seems to place that logic on its head.
In my opinion, location, location, location applies to athletics as much as it does real estate. Coaches fit some localities better than others. I think that’s very much the case with Allen in terms of Tazewell and Galax. Our communities in SWVA tend to be quite insular but in different and unique ways. From an outsiders perspective, Tazewell and Galax would seem very similar. But to those of us who have spent decades here, the differences can be glaring.
This^^^^. It applies to both coaching fit and athletic talent that resides in the area.
There is definitely recency bias in my choices, mainly due to lack of options. Crist has had Radford in the playoffs consistently during his tenure prior to the state title. (Based on posts, his influence is arguable, but to the victor goes the spoils.)
I would say the same for Allen. He likely inherited a great program; however, it is very hard to win a state championship.
I always thought Honaker seemed like a school with a lot of potential in all sports, especially football for a 1A school. A winning tradition and the artificial turf is a plus also. Honaker seems like a school kids would want to transfer to if they wanted to make a run at a state title each year. 1A class D was not very strong this year and Honaker has everything in place to compete for or win the region on a yearly basis so yes I could see kids wanting to play there.
This phenomenon was in effect this past year, I believe and is ever-present. I think it explains why Honaker is the primary beneficiary when Richlands is down. I’m sure Honaker is an excellent school on its own, and now “being a big fish in a small pond” is probably a greater draw now that Lebanon is also Class 2. This past year, the Tigers had a historically good class of homegrown players, that was then supplemented by transfers who likely came for the same reasons mentioned. I couldn’t say for certain how they compare to area Class 2 schools, but I imagine that they would be behind Graham and Union, and somewhere around GC or Tazewell.
I only mention Tazewell for comparison sake in particular. In my opinion, they match up well with Honaker athletically, and most years have a speed advantage. Honaker and Tazewell are almost equidistant from Richlands, depending upon where around Richlands you live. If you are looking for a way out, and care more about standing out or hoping for a championship, it’s certainly an easier road through a Hogo/BDD schedule than an SWD/M7 schedule. If Lebanon falls upon hard times, it’s also a more attractive alternative than Abingdon for the same reasons. Richlands success or lack thereof is certainly going to continue to affect Honaker, even if a zero net effect. Example: Richlands improves and becomes a contender, but players still move for greater playing time and/or stats due to not having to face the Graham/Union juggernauts.
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I think this is a fair point.
Baseball is certainly favored in this area per tradition and some personal preferences, but I certainly concede that soccer skills and conditioning are certainly more transferable to not only football, but other areas of health and every day life.
Just my opinion, but I think my RB and WRs benefit from the sprints and cutting while playing soccer more than running the bases 3-4 times per game and/or tracking down a handful of fly balls in the outfield.