Outrageous?

[CPF 409]

Lets just talk about unions for a second, no I have never even been offered to join one. As for Blue Collar work, well in my 19 short years, 4 of them were spent doing landscaping. Gotta pay the car insurance somehow. lol

 

Here is what I see wrong with Unions.

• 
   
  
• Increases price of goods. As wages go up, so does the price of goods. Unfortunately prices get so high we have to buy from foriegn countries. Now doesnt that sound familar? All are products are bought overseas, why? Higher wages by Unions are part of the problem.
   
   
  
• Everyone is equal. In unions Employers have a hard time using merit to promote employers. It is hard to weed out bad ones, and find productive workers. Why? Tough regulations on employers set by Unions. Many people believe that Union workers find themselves in the comfort of the Union and stop working as hard.
   
   
  
• Unions have disappeared from our country for a long time, in fact for you Clinton supporters, Unions were at an all time low during his administration. I would consider that a good economic time, and i dont see anyone losing like mountainman states.
   
   
  
• Insane overpricing of employees. This ties in with #1 but i find this amazing. according to the National Review, there are "The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." They also showed that a person operating a forklift makes 106,000 a year. The median wage for that job is 26,000 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
   
   
  
• Unions almost destroyed the Airline industry. They, PATCO, called for a 10,000 dollar raise after they already almost ran it bankrupt. After a 17 month standoff, Reagan ended the strike, thankfully.
   
   
  
• Economists are strongly against unions. Why? Supply and Demand. Considered a cartel, unions lower the supply of work looking for wages above the competitive value of businesses.
   
   
  
• Unions, using the law of demand, successfully raise the price of labor, employers will purchase less of it. Thus, unions are a major anticompetitive force in labor markets. Their gains come at the expense of consumers, nonunion workers, the jobless, taxpayers, and owners of corporations.
   
   
  
• According to Harvard economists, Richard Freeman and James Medoff, all unions have monopoly power. When has a monopoly ever been good?

 

 

Yes I know, I havent worked in a union. But I can still talk about them. Just like none of us are college football players but we talk about them. Most of you are not officials, but you LOVE to talk about them. I may not ever be in a union, or have the oppurtunity to, but I can learn from the past and chose what in my opinion is the best for our country.

 

 

 

That is sad, maybe when you grow up and actually have to work for a living and support someone besides yourself you might feel differently......

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

That is sad, maybe when you grow up and actually have to work for a living and support someone besides yourself you might feel differently......

 

And how is that sad? Only 14-17% of workers in the US are in labor Unions. Should the 80+% of people not in Unions feel sad too?

 

Look, its like I said earlier, Unions had a place in the United States years back. Employees were getting treated wrongly. But now, they are not needed as much. The United States has laws now, which were probably led by labor unions, to help the workers. I dont see them making that much of a positive force on the economy, nor non union workers which are often forced out of the workforce.

[CPF 409]

And how is that sad? Only 14-17% of workers in the US are in labor Unions. Should the 80+% of people not in Unions feel sad too?

 

Look, its like I said earlier, Unions had a place in the United States years back. Employees were getting treated wrongly. But now, they are not needed as much. The United States has laws now, which were probably led by labor unions, to help the workers. I dont see them making that much of a positive force on the economy, nor non union workers which are often forced out of the workforce.

 

 

 

Now they are not needed as much? hahahahahaha........If you got rid of all the unions it would be right back to what it was before unions came together within a month. 14 to 17 percent of workers in the us are in unions? I would dare say that they make more pay, and have better benefits too than people with similar skills that are non union too. My job is union, and if we didn't have one I would probably be making half the money, and I would probably pay twice what I am paying in health insurance. Unions are the main excuse for why all these companies are taking all these jobs to mexico, and overseas. Not true, it is corporate greed........You can pay an auto worker 30 dollars an hour in detroit, or you can pay him 2 dollars an hour in mexico. Which would you rather do if you were a corporate executive? That means 28 more dollars in my pocket, and we'll just blame it on the unions. Good old Bill Clinton.......

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Now they are not needed as much? hahahahahaha........If you got rid of all the unions it would be right back to what it was before unions came together within a month. 14 to 17 percent of workers in the us are in unions? I would dare say that they make more pay, and have better benefits too than people with similar skills that are non union too. My job is union, and if we didn't have one I would probably be making half the money, and I would probably pay twice what I am paying in health insurance. Unions are the main excuse for why all these companies are taking all these jobs to mexico, and overseas. Not true, it is corporate greed........You can pay an auto worker 30 dollars an hour in detroit, or you can pay him 2 dollars an hour in mexico. Which would you rather do if you were a corporate executive? That means 28 more dollars in my pocket, and we'll just blame it on the unions. Good old Bill Clinton.......

 

You highlighted exactly what I am saying, Unions drive up the cost of work. While I agree we need to take care of our own people, too often Unions are too extreme, like i posted earlier. Paying someone 35-40 dollars an hour to just mow grass/landscape isnt needed. You call it coporate greed, I call it Union greed to an extent. Some of the salaries they have created are excessive. Im not saying yours is at all, but some definitely are. And there are Unions in other countries, such as the leading producer of automobiles, Japan. However there labor union functions within the labor market. The US increase of pay makes cars above the competitive level where the can not clear the market.

[mountainman74 12]

Like I said, I respect people who stand for what they believe. Im 34, and have a lot of experience in my life so far. I grew up in Giles, lived in Florida 6 years, worked 2 jobs, lived in a trailor, in near poverty. Moved back home, worked 2 jobs, and climbed my way out of poverty, (no hand outs). Worked bad jobs here, and worked at Volvo as well. Like you said life isnt fair. Well that is what a Union is for. It makes it fair. We dont get rich working union jobs. We just get a fair share. Im not much on a computer, so someone else would have to cut and paste union material. All I know is they created holidays, 5-day work weeks, and 8 hour days. and everything people take for granted while working today, they can thank the unions for laying the foundation. Sure they were stronger in the past, but they are still needed today. Unions dont hurt corporations. Its only right for employers to pay a fair wage, and have a safe environment. If a non union company does all of this, then my hats off to them. But its rare. As for those numbers, it looks like anti-union propaganda, which is no different than the liberal media. Unions negotiate contracts, wages and benefits. But companies are still in charge. We still do what Volvo says, and most people earn their money. Jobs there are much tougher than they used to be. Its that 14-17% that is holding its ground. If that were to dissapear, the 80+% would drop to even lower standards.

As for taxing the rich, and them moving or passing the tax to the consumer.That is Greed, You closed the loop holes leting them move, and make them do right. We shouldnt be held hostage by our own corporations. Have you seen what a CEO makes?

About the voting, maybe it wouldnt have made a difference, but some shady things happened, and if I can find details about these I'll post them.

No hard feelings.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Like I said, I respect people who stand for what they believe. Im 34, and have a lot of experience in my life so far. I grew up in Giles, lived in Florida 6 years, worked 2 jobs, lived in a trailor, in near poverty. Moved back home, worked 2 jobs, and climbed my way out of poverty, (no hand outs). Worked bad jobs here, and worked at Volvo as well. Like you said life isnt fair. Well that is what a Union is for. It makes it fair. We dont get rich working union jobs. We just get a fair share. Im not much on a computer, so someone else would have to cut and paste union material. All I know is they created holidays, 5-day work weeks, and 8 hour days. and everything people take for granted while working today, they can thank the unions for laying the foundation. Sure they were stronger in the past, but they are still needed today. Unions dont hurt corporations. Its only right for employers to pay a fair wage, and have a safe environment. If a non union company does all of this, then my hats off to them. But its rare. As for those numbers, it looks like anti-union propaganda, which is no different than the liberal media. Unions negotiate contracts, wages and benefits. But companies are still in charge. We still do what Volvo says, and most people earn their money. Jobs there are much tougher than they used to be. Its that 14-17% that is holding its ground. If that were to dissapear, the 80+% would drop to even lower standards.

As for taxing the rich, and them moving or passing the tax to the consumer.That is Greed, You closed the loop holes leting them move, and make them do right. We shouldnt be held hostage by our own corporations. Have you seen what a CEO makes?

About the voting, maybe it wouldnt have made a difference, but some shady things happened, and if I can find details about these I'll post them.

No hard feelings.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said here. The Unions gave the US a lot, including what you said. I just feel that the Unions are moving to far extreme, just like a lot of people believe both the parties are going to far to either side which will separate our country even more.

 

Im not quite sure that the 14-17% is holding it down for wages, just hear me out. During times without unions, pay increased more than it did with Unions. Wages have been increasing pretty steadily from the beginning. Dont get me wrong, Unions did create a lot of wage increases, but I think what they do in healthcare, safety, and retirement are more important. I think we can live with what I would call worker associations, who guarantee the latter for the american worker. I think that would do away with the "extreme" Union leaders in some cases.

 

Your right about Liberal media. And ill tell you this, the internet is just as bad. You can find anything almost to support your idea. If I wanted to I could probably put up a good argument that John McCain was never a POW for example. And your right about letting them move, i hate NAFTA. I also think we should go after corporations that hire illegal workers and cities to harbor them. That hurts the American jobs. The sad thing is we have to have people who want to do those "bad" jobs like you did. Im not sure some of the unemployed will want to do that.

 

Im glad we agree that life isnt fair, but in actuality life is what you make of it. If you put a lot of work into life, I believe you will recieve benefits from it. I do not like a free pass for anyone, and you surely never got one and I applaud you for that.

[CPF 409]

You highlighted exactly what I am saying, Unions drive up the cost of work. While I agree we need to take care of our own people, too often Unions are too extreme, like i posted earlier. Paying someone 35-40 dollars an hour to just mow grass/landscape isnt needed. You call it coporate greed, I call it Union greed to an extent. Some of the salaries they have created are excessive. Im not saying yours is at all, but some definitely are. And there are Unions in other countries, such as the leading producer of automobiles, Japan. However there labor union functions within the labor market. The US increase of pay makes cars above the competitive level where the can not clear the market.

 

 

 

 

Are you 19 years old correct? If so there is no need to argue about anything with you anymore. And that is because I don't respect your opinion because you know anything about the real world. Not trying to be mean, it's just a fact.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Are you 19 years old correct? If so there is no need to argue about anything with you anymore. And that is because I don't respect your opinion because you know anything about the real world. Not trying to be mean, it's just a fact.

 

A fact that I "know anything about the real world." what is that supposed to mean? or did you mean I don't know anything about the real world?

 

My age has nothing to do with my knowledge. Sure I may not have the experience, but I can still post my opinion. You not accepting my views because of my age is the real sad part.

 

And I know about the real world. About how at any time life can change in a second, from losing a family member, to facing a huge debt. About loving and living, about working hard through tough times. I worked hard to get where I am, still do. And I have a lot of work left to be done. I am part of the real world, accept it or not, and no not the dumb MTV show. You can not deny me my right to an opinion.

[CPF 409]

A fact that I "know anything about the real world." what is that supposed to mean? or did you mean I don't know anything about the real world?

 

My age has nothing to do with my knowledge. Sure I may not have the experience, but I can still post my opinion. You not accepting my views because of my age is the real sad part.

 

And I know about the real world. About how at any time life can change in a second, from losing a family member, to facing a huge debt. About loving and living, about working hard through tough times. I worked hard to get where I am, still do. And I have a lot of work left to be done. I am part of the real world, accept it or not, and no not the dumb MTV show. You can not deny me my right to an opinion.

 

 

 

I meant you don't know anything about the world. And that is ok, at that age I didn't either. You think you do, but you really don't. It's nothing personal. I have a nephew your age, and he thinks he can read a book and know it all too. Live your life, face tough times.Worry about real bills, and feeding and clothing kids. Talk to me in 20 years or so. You don't have an appreciation for the working man, because all you have done is menial jobs. Go watch a coal miner for a while, and see how they live........

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

I dont know it all. You pointed out exactly what i said again, i do not have the experience. However, using logic, reasoning, and history I can form my opinions so that when I am faced with adversity, or those experience building moments, I can succeed. As for coal miners, one of my good buddies from high school is a coal miner, Id say you have seen him before lol, and I know what they go through. One of my family members lives in a car working in construction. I know what it is like.

 

And I pay real bills, to the tune of around 12,000 a year. Fortunately for me, I did things to make that load a heckuva lot smaller. Too bad nothing I do can take away the 1500 for the car insurance bill. But is that like raising a family, no. And any man who works hard to put food on the table is a step up in my book, i know its not easy.

 

But you are right, I dont have the experiences. But I can have an opinion and I can express it. No matter what you say its not gonna go away. I may go through life and never have a blue collar job, who knows. But I still have my opinion, and thankfully no matter what my age, in America it will be heard.

[CPF 409]

I dont know it all. You pointed out exactly what i said again, i do not have the experience. However, using logic, reasoning, and history I can form my opinions so that when I am faced with adversity, or those experience building moments, I can succeed. As for coal miners, one of my good buddies from high school is a coal miner, Id say you have seen him before lol, and I know what they go through. One of my family members lives in a car working in construction. I know what it is like.

 

And I pay real bills, to the tune of around 12,000 a year. Fortunately for me, I did things to make that load a heckuva lot smaller. Too bad nothing I do can take away the 1500 for the car insurance bill. But is that like raising a family, no. And any man who works hard to put food on the table is a step up in my book, i know its not easy.

 

But you are right, I dont have the experiences. But I can have an opinion and I can express it. No matter what you say its not gonna go away. I may go through life and never have a blue collar job, who knows. But I still have my opinion, and thankfully no matter what my age, in America it will be heard.

 

 

Never said you didn't deserve an opinion. But my opinion is that you are unqualified to make an opinion about a union. Because you don't have any expirence to make that opinion. Basically you are just running your mouth based on opinions others have beaten into your head since you were a kid. Sorry, like I said it is nothing personal. You are just unqualified to make any assessment about the working man.

[bhs7695 185]

Well I'm 32 and I'll tell you that the company I worked for has a union in their WV operations. It is a shame how much extra the workers have to shell out for the stinking union dues every month. A couple of the guys almost lost their jobs because of the struggles they had in trying to pay the dues and also put food on the table for their wives and kids! Yes, the employee is paid a little more per hour but they pay the wage difference back and then some in the stupid dues. Then, near the end of the contract when the union wants more from the company, they threaten to strike. The union could care less about the employees and their families. They are trying to fatten their pockets as much as possible at the expense of the employees.

 

Unions are not needed for the most part these days. Maybe in the days of the Hatfields & McCoys, but the government has done a pretty good job of regulating the workplace since the "Redneck War" of 1920.

Edited October 11, 2008 by bhs7695

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Never said you didn't deserve an opinion. But my opinion is that you are unqualified to make an opinion about a union. Because you don't have any expirence to make that opinion. Basically you are just running your mouth based on opinions others have beaten into your head since you were a kid. Sorry, like I said it is nothing personal. You are just unqualified to make any assessment about the working man.

 

Ive seen you bashing refs on this site? Ever been a ref for a HS game? Ever had to make a split decision with thousands of people watching you for little pay? You have no experience to bash one if you havent... Thats the same logic your using on me.

 

And no, not one single person has ever talked to me about Unions that I can think of. I formed my opinions using research. And I know the pros of a Union, Ive even stated some. Im not just running my mouth, I used numerous sources to form my opinion. In fact we had a debate on Unions in my Macroeconomics class last year and I argued FOR unions. I know there are pros and cons, and i even offered a grey area of resolution which i think would work. Unions arent all good, and they arent all bad. There is a reason everyone isnt in a Union.

 

But arguing lifestyles between a 19 year old and X year old is pointless and boring. You have the floor to argue for Unions. Im all ears, maybe you can beat the pros of labor unions into me.

[CPF 409]

Ive seen you bashing refs on this site? Ever been a ref for a HS game? Ever had to make a split decision with thousands of people watching you for little pay? You have no experience to bash one if you havent... Thats the same logic your using on me.

 

And no, not one single person has ever talked to me about Unions that I can think of. I formed my opinions using research. And I know the pros of a Union, Ive even stated some. Im not just running my mouth, I used numerous sources to form my opinion. In fact we had a debate on Unions in my Macroeconomics class last year and I argued FOR unions. I know there are pros and cons, and i even offered a grey area of resolution which i think would work. Unions arent all good, and they arent all bad. There is a reason everyone isnt in a Union.

 

But arguing lifestyles between a 19 year old and X year old is pointless and boring. You have the floor to argue for Unions. Im all ears, maybe you can beat the pros of labor unions into me.

 

 

 

Actually, I have bashed alot of people on here over the years, but I don't think I have ever bashed the officials.....yet, but I do understand your point. I guess we can just agree to disagree.....

[futbolking 766]

How is saying Obama has friends with terrorists offensive? Please explain.

 

And I was 11 during the 2001 election, and I knew a great deal about the election. I tried to sway my parents votes, to Gore. Can you believe it? I still dont know to this day who they voted for, but I know I was informed. He probably was too.

 

And why is the dad a "loon"? Please explain that one too. Seems like a normal law abiding citizen. Unlike Obamas friends! :eek:

 

 

The dad obviously has an agenda or this would've never made the news.

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

The dad obviously has an agenda or this would've never made the news.

 

I never thought of it this way and you have a decent point, but it seems stories of this pop up everywhere whether it be people are wearing steelers jerseys or whatever. People take offense to what they believe in. The dad probably did push the story, we will never know, but everyone loves their 15 minutes of fame...

 

Did the dad have an "agenda"? probably not. Did it need to be made national news? probably not. Was it offensive? probably not.

 

Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it was wrong to suspend the kid.

[blueinbama 259]

I never thought of it this way and you have a decent point, but it seems stories of this pop up everywhere whether it be people are wearing steelers jerseys or whatever. People take offense to what they believe in. The dad probably did push the story, we will never know, but everyone loves their 15 minutes of fame...

 

Did the dad have an "agenda"? probably not. Did it need to be made national news? probably not. Was it offensive? probably not.

 

Nevertheless, it is what it is, and it was wrong to suspend the kid.

My impression was not that the dad had a personal agenda, rather that he was leading his son by example in protesting this stifling of his son's freedom of speech. The issue here is about protecting our rights as Americans. IMHO. Edited October 12, 2008 by blueinbama

[trublue 939]

I couldn't believe it when I saw it.....but then again.....can we say subtle indoctrination. Do you know what's in your kids public school books???

 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1225887,racine-obama-textbook101608.article

[deuceswild 15]

Haha, people actually complain about that stuff??

 

If your kid is old enough to vote and in 8th grade, I might could see you argument. But if your idiot kid develops a voting bias based on something from his 8th grade lit book then he or she has bigger issues...

[GMan 3,569]

Well I'm 32 and I'll tell you that the company I worked for has a union in their WV operations. It is a shame how much extra the workers have to shell out for the stinking union dues every month. A couple of the guys almost lost their jobs because of the struggles they had in trying to pay the dues and also put food on the table for their wives and kids! Yes, the employee is paid a little more per hour but they pay the wage difference back and then some in the stupid dues. Then, near the end of the contract when the union wants more from the company, they threaten to strike. The union could care less about the employees and their families. They are trying to fatten their pockets as much as possible at the expense of the employees.

 

Unions are not needed for the most part these days. Maybe in the days of the Hatfields & McCoys, but the government has done a pretty good job of regulating the workplace since the "Redneck War" of 1920.

 

Unions are the reason why so many Americans are out of a job and the reason why everything you buy today is made in China. Unions have destroyed every industry that built this country...

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

Unions are the reason why so many Americans are out of a job and the reason why everything you buy today is made in China. Unions have destroyed every industry that built this country...

 

How old are you? Cause you agree with a 19 year old. You must be wrong.

[hokie07 11]

How old are you? Cause you agree with a 19 year old. You must be wrong.

 

Lay of the drugs, kid! You teens and your rap music!

 

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Unions are the reason why so many Americans are out of a job and the reason why everything you buy today is made in China. Unions have destroyed every industry that built this country...

 

Have to...fight it.

Agreeing...too much...with GMan...

[clodhopper 10]

Unions are the reason why so many Americans are out of a job and the reason why everything you buy today is made in China. Unions have destroyed every industry that built this country...

 

Top 5 of dumbest statements I've ever heard, good go'in. You don't have a CLUE what you're talk'in about!! You are a GOP dream voter. Replace the word "Unions" with the word GREED........then you'll be a LOT closer to the truth.

 

Ahhhh, the good ole days.

 

Worked for enough company script to buy a new pair of shoes every fall for each kid.

 

We got to live in company shacks.

 

Get killed in the mines? throw that widow out of our company shack, let her and those kids starve....we don't make a dime off them!!

 

You're sick you say?........TOUGH!!!......work til you die, we'll have another in here tomorrow.

 

Holiday? what's a holiday?

 

Who said 40 hours is considered a work week? not here!!

 

I believe I'll stick with my union!!

[CPF 409]

Unions are the reason why so many Americans are out of a job and the reason why everything you buy today is made in China. Unions have destroyed every industry that built this country...

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess that American's won't work for the 17 cents a day that the chinese will. I will have to disagree with you on this one. Unions are part of the problem.....part, not all. The company I work for made 300 million last QUARTER, and I can't buy a roll of toilet paper. But yet my CEO made about 12 million last year.......now who is greedy?