I pose an interesting question here...Would it be better to have football this fall and limit the stands to only parents or have in spring and allow (possibly limited) other fans in the stands???
All speculation and hypothetical situations there but still an interesting question I think
I think there's a better chance of having fans in the stands in spring.
I also think that several athletic departments are going to have budget issues when their fields are destroyed by essentially playing back to back seasons.
Seems to be strong sentiment within the VHSL Executive Committee to make sure that spring sports get to play this school year (otherwise they lose two consecutive cycles). If there is any move to allow fall play, it's far more likely that they will shift spring sports to that time frame (and simultaneously eliminate the need to play into the end of June).
But I honestly don't think we'll see any changes at all in the schedule as proposed for 2020-2021.
1986, not 1995...1986 was the beginning of flux in SWVA when the SWD broke up over Grundy.
Oddly enough, the wave of enrollment reductions really hit the New River Valley (and its eponymous district) well before it had major impact farther west. If anything, the SWD split in 1986 was an overly optimistic move by the schools who created the Highlands District. And it proved to be a short-sighted move based on enrollment trends and projections at the time.
I picked 1995 as a benchmark because that's when the New River District finally went kaput. The fact that the SWD continues to exist in a pretty recognizable form is pretty significant IMO.
1986, not 1995...1986 was the beginning of flux in SWVA when the SWD broke up over Grundy.
I actually blame Lebanon. The Pioneers created the imbalance when they were assigned to Class AA in 1980. The days of the SWD in its 1970 realignment configuration were pretty much numbered from that point on.
On the other hand, Grundy was a charter member of the SWD when it was formed circa 1956. The "I-81" schools who eventually went on to form the Highlands District complained constantly about traveling to Grundy. But in terms of distance Gate City was just as much of a geographic outlier (if not more so) for the "Highway 460" group.
There were some great D3 teams in Region C over the years. Martinsville, Rustburg, Jefferson Forest all had dominant runs. Those were the teams Graham wanted to compete against and beat, and occasionally did. Having the 2D Championship be the de facto state title game every year never appealed to Carlock.
I think it was a combination of travel considerations as well as the desire to play an appropriately challenging schedule. Given Graham's proximity to the better roads within the region, it made a lot of sense for them to gravitate eastward for non-district match-ups. And that relationship worked both ways -- with Blacksburg being a prime example.
On the other hand, I know that Richlands has historically been very enthusiastic about a series with Blacksburg. But that interest was extremely one-sided. Given the Bruins' proximity to good travel options and quality opponents overall, that makes perfect sense from an objective standpoint.
It's also worth noting that scheduling of non-district games is an enormously complicated business. It's pretty rare when two AD's find something that works within their mutual operating margins. And if they do, they will go to great measures to preserve those relationships.
I thought they were a part of the district for a few years. Huh. Learn something new every day.
A lot of flux within the AA ranks in Southwest Virginia from about 1995 onward, and there was a lot of shifting to keep Region IV somewhat intact as a functioning entity.
Since the Highlands had dwindled to three members with AA enrollment numbers at the time, the SWD was essentially Lee's only option back in 2007. But travel times to/from Ben Hur were essentially prohibitive. The shortest trip (Abingdon) was about an hour and a half. The longest at the time (Carroll County) was about a three hour trip. So the argument for a geographic hardship made a lot of sense. Abingdon and Marion both came back into the SWD at that time (again, out of necessity), but Lee successfully opted out.
About ten years prior to that, the New River District folded when Radford finally dropped to Single A (the Bobcats had been "playing up" in a manner similar to Graham for many years by that point) and left only three teams remaining. That's how Carroll County came into the SWD -- which was probably never a great fit either way. There was talk of bringing Blacksburg and Christiansburg in as well (which apparently had strong support on the SWD side), but those schools opted to align with similar sized traveling partners toward the direction of Roanoke.
All of that maneuvering was the inevitable result of declining enrollment across Southwest Virginia. The New River District was the bellwether during the 1980's for what eventually happened further west. The VHSL's new four classification alignment could conceivably settle things in the region for a long time to come.
We’re those matchups with Lee when Lee was in the SWD? Cause there was a time when the SWD was Richlands, Graham, Tazewell, Grundy, Lee and Carroll Co.
Lee was never a member of the SWD. They successfully appealed to drop to Group A when the Highlands District went belly up. But a lot of SWD scheduled games with the Generals in a show of magnanimity. Just FYI....
If Graham "should have " been A why weren't they? What advantage was there in playing up in AA, other than keeping all of the Tazewell Co schools together?
There was a longstanding policy aimed at keeping Graham, Richlands, and Tazewell grouped together (and those three also stood together with Grundy until numbers in Buchanan County tipped to move the Golden Wave downward in terms of classification). But Pocahontas was essentially left to fend for itself (other than the occasional "county championship" competitions in various sports over the years). Never really understood the dynamic behind that particular situation.
Back then the VHSL used only grades 10-12 to determine classification and there was a hard cutoff of 500 for A/AA and 1000 for AA/AAA so Richlands would’ve been pretty close. The VHSL went to equal thirds sometime in the early to mid 1990s. That combined with increasing enrollments in the rest of Virginia gradually moved the AA/AAA cutoff above 1000.
I think Grundy’s enrollment was comparable to Richlands’ during the 1980s. The freshman class at Tazewell had over 250 in 1986 which I believe was the largest to come through at the time.
Carroll County was allowed to play down for years in the New River District. I always used to say they were a AAA school in a AA district playing a Single A schedule (Floyd, Grayson, Galax non district).
Good info on all counts. I had forgotten the ADM calculation based solely on grades 10-12. That's ultimately what kept Richlands under the line for AAA. Ultimately I think the operational changes in the steel industry which took place in the late 1970s had both the largest and most direct impact upon demographics within Buchanan, Mercer, McDowell, and Tazewell counties.
In 1985, there were 510 students at Graham. My class had 120. I don't think Graham has ever had over 600 students...been close but never over...
Population in Tazewell County peaked right around 1980. At that time Richlands had an enrollment of about 1,300 and there was a lot of chatter about us being bumped up to Class AAA and playing in the old Roanoke Valley District. (Guessing that we may have even been the beneficiary of a classification appeal ourselves at that time.) But those numbers started to drop pretty consistently shortly thereafter. By the time I graduated in 1989 RHS was down to about 1,100.
Pointing all of that out on our end of the county because I'm curious if things were the same in Bluefield. Narrative I always heard growing up was that Graham "played up" consistently from the point of the 1970 realignment. And that does indeed make the athletic accomplishments of those teams more impressive, IMO.
Haun is a waste!! how did he get the position he holds?? fear mongering about normal doesn't exist anymore!! guess he doesn't follow the science or the data.
May I humbly suggest that you are aiming your concerns at the wrong target?
Historically I've been as critical of the VHSL as anyone. But the fact that they are talking about a plan for the postseason and the possibility of actually awarding championships should be a very encouraging thing for those who want to see on-field competition. Just my opinion, of course.
I've often wondered about just how different things might have been if Billy Haun could (and presumably would) have stayed longer. Ultimately I think he was brought down by the poor records in 1988 and 1989 (1-9 and 2-8 respectively) on the heels of that 1987 playoff season. If the program hadn't tanked so badly in those two seasons there might not have been as much of a sense of urgency to clear the way for Vaught in 1991.
Just another weird thought. Generally speaking, I suppose that Dr. Haun would say that things worked out in a very satisfactory manner if you asked him.
Richlands didn't win its 1st playoff game until 1991, which is one of those stats that doesn't seem real or possible.
In terms of historical atrocities, I can't believe you neglected the 2001 "Flooding of the Clinch River with Tears" after Richlands fans whined and cried over Graham scoring a late TD to win a 22-0 shutout. Never forget!
Richlands didn't have a lot of success at the regional level in most sports for a long time. Boys basketball just won a playoff game for the first time in the history of that program a couple of years ago.
As for the 2001 example, I think that qualifies as more of a Graham "atrocity" and I would welcome that as the start of that list. 😉
I think the reason people don't like you now(not saying me) is because some of your fans have this "our program is the greatest" attitude...when in fact there are plenty of swva programs better
Even before the Blues started winning consistently on the gridiron, there was an odd dynamic within the community that involved some pretty high expectations (which were also probably pretty unreasonable in my own opinion). Not sure that "entitlement" is the correct word, but it's probably something akin to that. And this was based on what I observed in the 1970's through the mid 1980's. I'm sure the attitudes in the community evolved significantly in step with the Mance era and that probably does rub a lot of area people the wrong way.
FWIW, I'm not one to make any excuses about the issues which took place back in 1992. Just a very stupid and needless thing to have occurred all around.
If this makes you feel better than good for you...you are a typical Richlands fan
Just being stupid and having a little fun. To the other point, I don't know that I'm a "typical" anything. Some of these ridiculous comments would actually get me an a-- whipping from members of my own hometown.
A lot of discussion for a program that will never reach the heights of Appalachia or Powell Valley and they've been closed for over 10 years.
Actually a very good point.
Growing up it seemed like a lot of area schools/fans held a particular level of disdain for Richlands. Which didn't make a lot of sense because, candidly, we weren't much of a threat to anybody in any program at the time.
I realize that this includes examples other than football, but given recent discussions on this board centering on an apparent fascination with this particular school I offer this as a therapeutic exercise for all board participants.
In no particular order...
1.The cleat thing, because…..well…..just because.
2.At one time Blue Tornado basketball players used Stick-Um to assist in dunking the ball during pregame layup drills.
3.Placing the WGTH broadcast table for basketball games next to the “Krazy Korner” fan section.(And subjecting the fine God fearin’ clientele of that station to the occasional off color cheer and/or naughty comment caught and broadcast over the air waves.)
4.Certain members of the golf team “requisitioned” range balls at Fincastle during the SWD tournament event held there once.
5.In the mid 1980’s half the student body of Richlands perpetuated a rumor of rampant Satan worship among Tazewell students.(The other half of the Richlands folks pestered their Tazewell counterparts for several months thereafter in an effort to get them to use their “special relationship” to provide an advantage in securing Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets.)
6.It has long been suspected that the trombone slides used by the multiple year award-winning Virginia honor marching band are at least 1/8” too long.
7.On one occasion the visiting Richlands fans apparently provoked members of the normally docile and hospitable Big Creek crowd into firing shots at the school bus transporting the Blue Tornado marching band.
8.Holding up dollar bills as opposing basketball cheerleaders performed on the court during timeout breaks.
9.During the 1972 football playoff against Radford, Richlands players apparently spit tobacco on Bobcat players.Thus providing complete justification for Saint Norman Lineburg to run up the score on that occasion.
10.In a section of 9th grade Physical Education, members of the class organized and began a softball game prior to the arrival (and without the expressed permission) of teacher/coach Bruce Sizemore.
11.During the 1970’s the school experimented with a color scheme that included a garish shade of light blue accented by red.(When everyone knows that Powell Valley is the only school that ever came close to making that a decent look.)
12.The visitor side bleachers of Ernie Hicks Stadium.
13.During a stint which saw the program win one game over two years in the early 1970’s, the head basketball coach at the time burned all of the written records associated with the entire athletic department.
14.A Dennis Vaught-led football team once wore uniforms that bore more than a passing resemblance to the Dallas Cowboys.(A bigger travesty than the cleat thing in certain circles.)
15.One senior class was so lackadaisical in its approach to the tradition of painting the water tank above the school campus complex that they left it painted blank white over the course of a week.This invited someone to spray paint “F--- You!” on the face of the tank in large black letters.Despite efforts to allow it to remain as an unofficial class motto, administration called certain Seniors out of class to immediately correct the issue.
16.A large green banner depicting the demonic Bulldog mascot mysteriously disappeared from Tazewell High School the week before the 1987 football game against Richlands.It reappeared during the fourth quarter of the game in the student section, where it was subsequently torn to shreds.
17.A Model UN delegation from RHS once pushed a unanimous resolution through the Security Council which condemned the United States.
18.The “crown” in the middle of the old natural turf field of Ernie Hicks Stadium (which varied in height from apparently 3 to 12 feet at any given time).
19.Male middle school students used to leave visible notes on their lockers for visiting teams which used them for football and basketball.Many of these contained speculative comments about certain physical abilities of the female relatives of visiting players (although they could also be construed as oddly complimentary).
20.A member of the RHS golf team once carried 15 clubs in his bag in a match played against Giles at Castle Rock golf course.Oddly enough, this example of cheating apparently escaped the attention of the usually vigilant Spartan fan base.
Feel free to add to this list and/or edit as you may see fit. Personally, I know I feel a whole lot better after posting this.
So, Ronnie Davis is a darn good coach. Now that we are back on topic, can we keep it that way? Please take this discussion to another thread. Heck, I'll even start a new one for you.
I can also attest to the fact that Ronnie's level of personal hygiene is beyond reproach. (At least it was back in the day.)
Oops. Not sure if this qualifies as on topic. Would someone be so kind as to summon a marshal?
He didn't go to a school in the Tidewater area. He was at Patrick Henry in Roanoke in 1989. They played a game vs Homer Ferguson at Todd Stadium in Newport News. At Halftime he yelled at his team because they were losing. He was reported to have said, "Are you gonna let a bunch of N beat you?". He was fired. But Richlands hired him a year later.
Not exactly the version I heard. In admonishing a player (or players) of African descent to avoid behaving at the level of members of the opposing team, supposedly he said something along the lines of, "Let them act like N, but we're not going to do that."
Still wrong to say, but context is everything. A long-serving and respected local government administrator in the Roanoke area used the term "N in a wood pile" after Vaught's incident at PH and served on into retirement.
Also, Richlands didn't hire him a year later. He was brought in by the Superintendent in 1990 with the notion that he would take over the next head coaching job that happened to be available in Tazewell County. Coincidentally that was Richlands.
Agree about the recruiting down there...but y'all did your fair share also didn't you?
And now it's other teams in the Roanoke valley area that do all the recruiting...I don't think Salem does much anymore...they don't need too
Recruiting wasn't a concept in Richlands back in 1992. And at that time we were just two years removed from one of the worst decades in the history of the program (in terms of winning percentage). Hard to imagine enticing any recruits to come even if Vaught would have considered it. From 2000 forward.... strong evidence to the contrary.
Salem still probably gets most of the area football players it wants. Areas that have multiple school systems and private schools in adjacent proximity to one another tend to spawn situations of horse trading -- which is an issue worth the VHSL's attention.
My personal opinion is that whenever a public school -- and I mean ANY public school -- is consistently dominant in a program or sport over a period beyond one generation of enrolled students (roughly 4 to 8 years), then there is probably something fishy going on.
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Rumor-fall football
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I think there's a better chance of having fans in the stands in spring.
I also think that several athletic departments are going to have budget issues when their fields are destroyed by essentially playing back to back seasons.