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VHS @ Graham; Thursday Night Edition


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12 hours ago, Onceadog said:

If I'm Virginia High I run the ball until Graham stops me. I think Graham is better in the back half of their defense than the front 7. I don't think they're weak in the front 7.. but I think their secondary is really talented. Vineyard is a great LB but overall I think the secondary is their strength. Plus up front Virginia High is just BIG. I think their best chance to win this game is to keep the ball out of Allen, Lester, and Cooke's hands. I was impressed with Virginia High's depth at RB and their QB actually reminds me of Ben Meade, Grahams qb last year. Should be a good one Thursday. 

That's actually the game plan that I'm hoping VHS goes with as well. Their RB depth has been key this year. Against the tougher opponents so far this year in THS and Abingdon, their power back has been the most effective. He has about 150 yds and 4 scores at around 7 YPC in those 2 games. Fans are clamoring for him to get a few more touches per game, but he is to the VHS defense, what Vineyard is to Graham's. Never comes off the field on D with around 70 tackles in 6 games. With the depth on the offensive side of the ball, he gets his breathers when they are on O.

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1 hour ago, SWVAgridiron said:

I will say this about Graham. If they can play 4 full quarters with no turnovers and limited penalties they would be in my top 3 of ALL 2A. 

Even without Reed? Watching that film, I'd be inclined to agree if everyone was healthy for G-Men. But kinda like Union, big injuries to super important position may end up being reason no Region D team wins it all. 

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11 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

 

10 hours ago, Bearcat Dad said:

Thanks!

Also keep in mind that Bluefield is undefeated, ranked #1 in WV AA, and has put a beat-down on every team they've face other than Graham...

Date H/A W/L Team Score Opponent Score  
2017-08-25 H W Bluefield 17 Graham (VA) (5) 14  
2017-09-01 A W Bluefield 62 Princeton (0) 0  
2017-09-08 A W Bluefield 45 Woodrow Wilson (1) 13  
2017-09-15 A W Bluefield 54 Greenbrier East (1) 7  
2017-09-21 H W Bluefield 62 Tazewell (VA) (1) 27  
2017-09-29 H W Bluefield 28 Richlands (VA) (2) 14  
2017-10-06 H W Bluefield 42 Pt. Pleasant (4) 13  
2017-10-13 H   Bluefield   Man (1)    
2017-10-20 A   Bluefield   Oak Hill (3)    
2017-10-27 H   Bluefield   James Monroe (6)  
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After seeing both teams in action I believe it will be a good one but Graham has more speed than V High even without Reed.  V High is good and will be interesting to see what happens against Richlands and Marion but this week will belong to Graham and I would't be surprised to see it a margin of 21.

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1 hour ago, GMan said:

 

Also keep in mind that Bluefield is undefeated, ranked #1 in WV AA, and has put a beat-down on every team they've face other than Graham...

Date H/A W/L Team Score Opponent Score  
2017-08-25 H W Bluefield 17 Graham (VA) (5) 14  
2017-09-01 A W Bluefield 62 Princeton (0) 0  
2017-09-08 A W Bluefield 45 Woodrow Wilson (1) 13  
2017-09-15 A W Bluefield 54 Greenbrier East (1) 7  
2017-09-21 H W Bluefield 62 Tazewell (VA) (1) 27  
2017-09-29 H W Bluefield 28 Richlands (VA) (2) 14  
2017-10-06 H W Bluefield 42 Pt. Pleasant (4) 13  
2017-10-13 H   Bluefield   Man (1)    
2017-10-20 A   Bluefield   Oak Hill (3)    
2017-10-27 H   Bluefield   James Monroe (6)  

I just finished watching the game. Those are 2 very good teams. I knew what I had heard and read about them, but to see them really puts it into perspective. It's gonna take the Bearcats' best effort of the year to win this one. Our best shot is to take advantage of our size and athleticism upfront and play Keep-away with Graham's offense. I'm looking forward to this matchup....thanks for the insight!

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3 hours ago, GMan said:

 

Also keep in mind that Bluefield is undefeated, ranked #1 in WV AA, and has put a beat-down on every team they've face other than Graham...

Date H/A W/L Team Score Opponent Score  
2017-08-25 H W Bluefield 17 Graham (VA) (5) 14  
2017-09-01 A W Bluefield 62 Princeton (0) 0  
2017-09-08 A W Bluefield 45 Woodrow Wilson (1) 13  
2017-09-15 A W Bluefield 54 Greenbrier East (1) 7  
2017-09-21 H W Bluefield 62 Tazewell (VA) (1) 27  
2017-09-29 H W Bluefield 28 Richlands (VA) (2) 14  
2017-10-06 H W Bluefield 42 Pt. Pleasant (4) 13  
2017-10-13 H   Bluefield   Man (1)    
2017-10-20 A   Bluefield   Oak Hill (3)    
2017-10-27 H   Bluefield   James Monroe (6)  

WV High School football is arguably some of the worst played High School football in all of the United States.  This does NOT exclude their "tops 2" at each level.  Meaning, year in and year out, the top 2 A teams in WV could play with the top 2 A teams in Virginia and the same for AA, and the same for AAA, but.........only top 2 at most.  The drop-off from the 3rd best team to the 16th best team is not even comparable to Virginia.  It's simply light years different in talent and quality of play.  Bridgeport will be the team standing in Bluefield's way, but could Bluefield give Appo a game as close or closer than any other double A or Class 2A team in Virginia?  The answer is yes.  But again, the drop off, for example, a team like James Monroe compared to a team like Graham?  No contest.   My point is....the Beavers are legit, but their schedule is not, and it's not their fault.  There are simply not many good teams in WV other than going North and playing the AAA schools, and this is evidenced by Bluefield nearly losing (probably should have lost to Graham) and Graham is considered perhaps what, the 4th to 5th best Class AA team in Virginia compared to Bluefield which is considered 1 or 2 in WV AA. 

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38 minutes ago, TTownTigers said:

WV High School football is arguably some of the worst played High School football in all of the United States.  This does NOT exclude their "tops 2" at each level.  Meaning, year in and year out, the top 2 A teams in WV could play with the top 2 A teams in Virginia and the same for AA, and the same for AAA, but.........only top 2 at most.  The drop-off from the 3rd best team to the 16th best team is not even comparable to Virginia.  It's simply light years different in talent and quality of play.  Bridgeport will be the team standing in Bluefield's way, but could Bluefield give Appo a game as close or closer than any other double A or Class 2A team in Virginia?  The answer is yes.  But again, the drop off, for example, a team like James Monroe compared to a team like Graham?  No contest.   My point is....the Beavers are legit, but their schedule is not, and it's not their fault.  There are simply not many good teams in WV other than going North and playing the AAA schools, and this is evidenced by Bluefield nearly losing (probably should have lost to Graham) and Graham is considered perhaps what, the 4th to 5th best Class AA team in Virginia compared to Bluefield which is considered 1 or 2 in WV AA. 

Another rant from you against Bluefield. Of course what you say is true but it is comparing apples to oranges. Virginia has a population of 8 million people. West Virginia has a population of 1.8 million. That roughly means that for every high school in WV there are 4 in Virginia.  Fairfax County alone has 27 AAA size schools and over 1 million people and that doesn't include the cities of Fairfax, Alexandria and Falls Church nor the county of Arlington. Bluefield year in and year is better than any school in SW Virginia. Last year, no. This year and most years, yes.

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This game has the makings of a classic. I have no idea how to gauge Graham based on Bluefield and Giles. Never seen Bluefield play and haven't watched Giles in several years. If Graham blows past Va High then I think everyone down this way will do a double-take. If it's close or Va High pulls it out then Bear fans will breathe a sigh of relief.

If this were in Bristol, I would definitely attend, but Bluefield is a little too far to drive on a work night.

I give Graham the edge, but the Bearcats are very capable of pulling this one out.

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2 hours ago, Bearcat Dad said:

I just finished watching the game. Those are 2 very good teams. I knew what I had heard and read about them, but to see them really puts it into perspective. It's gonna take the Bearcats' best effort of the year to win this one. Our best shot is to take advantage of our size and athleticism upfront and play Keep-away with Graham's offense. I'm looking forward to this matchup....thanks for the insight!

The biggest difference for graham now compared to the Bluefield game (other than Reed being out) is Graham is making it a focal point to get the ball to Taymon Cooke. In the Bluefield game they would split him wide and Bluefield was able to (mostly) take him out of the game by bringing a safety over to his side. He may have touched the ball 6 or 7 times that game. I think after that They realized when you have the best player on the field he has to get the ball in the open field.  He isn't showing in the box score as getting 25 touches a game but a big part of that is he and other Graham players have been scoring quick on big plays. 

 

If if I were game planning against graham I would try play keep away, especially if you have a good sized strong line. Graham doesn't have a ton of depth on defense so if you keep it on the ground with long drives, along with how they normally score quick on offense, could have a tendency to tire out. That's what Giles did in the second half and it almost won them the game after being down 21-0 in the first. This is also why I think looking forward to next week that Richlands will match up well with graham again. 

If you don't play keep away they are capable of putting up 42 in the first quarter as they did last Friday. You don't want to get into a track meet with them. 

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34 minutes ago, EH31 said:

If if I were game planning against graham I would try play keep away, especially if you have a good sized strong line. Graham doesn't have a ton of depth on defense so if you keep it on the ground with long drives, along with how they normally score quick on offense, could have a tendency to tire out. That's what Giles did in the second half and it almost won them the game after being down 21-0 in the first. This is also why I think looking forward to next week that Richlands will match up well with graham again. 

If you don't play keep away they are capable of putting up 42 in the first quarter as they did last Friday. You don't want to get into a track meet with them. 

That will be the Richlands gameplan in a few weeks, I'd assume. 

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1 hour ago, EH31 said:

The biggest difference for graham now compared to the Bluefield game (other than Reed being out) is Graham is making it a focal point to get the ball to Taymon Cooke. In the Bluefield game they would split him wide and Bluefield was able to (mostly) take him out of the game by bringing a safety over to his side. He may have touched the ball 6 or 7 times that game. I think after that They realized when you have the best player on the field he has to get the ball in the open field.  He isn't showing in the box score as getting 25 touches a game but a big part of that is he and other Graham players have been scoring quick on big plays. 

 

If if I were game planning against graham I would try play keep away, especially if you have a good sized strong line. Graham doesn't have a ton of depth on defense so if you keep it on the ground with long drives, along with how they normally score quick on offense, could have a tendency to tire out. That's what Giles did in the second half and it almost won them the game after being down 21-0 in the first. This is also why I think looking forward to next week that Richlands will match up well with graham again. 

If you don't play keep away they are capable of putting up 42 in the first quarter as they did last Friday. You don't want to get into a track meet with them. 

I was wondering why Cooke didn't get more touches. I wasn't sure if he had a minor injury that was nagging him, or if it was just a decision of the coaches to spread it around.

I definitely agree that our best shot is to ground and pound and use play action to go up top. Our O-Line is one of the best, and definitely the biggest that I can remember in my near 30 relationship with the program. With that said, we are a base single-back, 4 wide, spread offense that will try to throw it around some. We do have some depth at the Skills, and some pretty good speed ourselves. Nobody has Cooke type speed, but there are a number of kids with good speed. The speed has actually surprised some teams this year, but I'm with you. I would still prefer to see a more "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type game plan vs. a track meet.

Between the O and D lines, we have about 7 or 8 guys that rotate in one, the other, or both. Our guys on the O-Line that play the most, have measurables of; 

6'6 - 300

6'4 - 245

6'2 - 265

6'2 - 230

6'2 - 220 

6'1 - 320

6'1 - 215

They are all athletic, strong, and have mean streaks. The lightest on the line, may be the strongest. An absolute workout warrior who rotates in some at OLB. This is so uncommon for the VHS football program, it feels weird lol, but they are a good group of boys who put in a lot of extra work. They will no doubt have a huge test Thursday, with Graham's D.

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:17 AM, UVAObserver said:

It is more realistic that Graham wins by 35 than Graham losing this game.  I too think it'll be a 14-point win or something in that neighborhood, but Graham is one goal line fumble away from being the #1 team in SWVA.

Wasn't Graham a dropped TD pass as time was near to expiring against Richlands last year in regular season to being the #1 team in SWVA?  It doesn't quite work like that my friend.  That is who Graham is.  That's a part of Graham.  The knock has been their size and strength on the line and their mental toughness.  I didn't see the issues with their line on the internet against Bluefield.  It looked pretty solid to me and their defense did as well, but mental toughness?  It was apparent from game one there's still some issues there.  Only my opinion.  I've seen Va High in person this year and Graham on the net, and in my opinion, no way is it more realistic for Graham to win by 35 than it is for Graham to lose the game.  It would be the case on 9 out of 10 years with Graham and Va High, but not this year.  Va High is much improved.  They also are not beating Graham, but it won't be by 35.  The true answer rests in the middle.  Graham by about 14-17 points in my opinion.

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6 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said:

Another rant from you against Bluefield. Of course what you say is true but it is comparing apples to oranges. Virginia has a population of 8 million people. West Virginia has a population of 1.8 million. That roughly means that for every high school in WV there are 4 in Virginia.  Fairfax County alone has 27 AAA size schools and over 1 million people and that doesn't include the cities of Fairfax, Alexandria and Falls Church nor the county of Arlington. Bluefield year in and year is better than any school in SW Virginia. Last year, no. This year and most years, yes.

If it's true as you agree, can it actually be a "rant."  My apologies Bluefield Researcher if you took it that way.  I certainly wasn't ranting, just responding to a post made about Bluefield's schedule and scores that was brought up first by another person.  I agree with everything you wrote about the size-population in Virginia with the exception of Bluefield being year in and year out better than most AA teams in SWVA on a few points....

1.  Hopefully, Giles isn't considered SWVA and if so, you all shouldn't scrimmage them anymore.

2.  Gate City has been better over the years with almost 1/2 your school size on many of those years up until about 1995 when Bluefield starting losing it's school population at a rapid rate.  Gate City has been sending kids to Virginia Tech, Tennessee, and others over the decades while Bluefield has been sending their "100 meter track stars" to Concord and Marshall.

3.  Bluefield to my knowledge, would still be a class 3A school in Virginia and over the years up until perhaps 10-15 years ago, it would have been a class 4A school.  Therefore, your school even to this day, is still much larger than the overwhelming portion of AA schools in SWVA.  When you all play against teams that are a bit larger than you, you have struggled.  Ask the Charlotte, NC, area if they think so. 

4.  The most important point even if you disagree with the 3 above is.....you don't play the schedule.  Again, the strength of schedule for a southern WV AA school is simply not difficult and Bluefield only has to get up 2 times, maybe 3 per year of it's 10 games and it's been like that for years.  If you had to play the schedule strength which leads to more injuries which then cuts into your depth chart, things are a bit different, but again.......I agree with you that for this year, Bluefield could not just play with or beat any AA team in SWVA, they would play with any AA team in Va including Appo (wouldn't win, but it would be within 14 points). 

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5 minutes ago, TTownTigers said:

If it's true as you agree, can it actually be a "rant."  My apologies Bluefield Researcher if you took it that way.  I certainly wasn't ranting, just responding to a post made about Bluefield's schedule and scores that was brought up first by another person.  I agree with everything you wrote about the size-population in Virginia with the exception of Bluefield being year in and year out better than most AA teams in SWVA on a few points....

1.  Hopefully, Giles isn't considered SWVA and if so, you all shouldn't scrimmage them anymore.

2.  Gate City has been better over the years with almost 1/2 your school size on many of those years up until about 1995 when Bluefield starting losing it's school population at a rapid rate.  Gate City has been sending kids to Virginia Tech, Tennessee, and others over the decades while Bluefield has been sending their "100 meter track stars" to Concord and Marshall.

3.  Bluefield to my knowledge, would still be a class 3A school in Virginia and over the years up until perhaps 10-15 years ago, it would have been a class 4A school.  Therefore, your school even to this day, is still much larger than the overwhelming portion of AA schools in SWVA.  When you all play against teams that are a bit larger than you, you have struggled.  Ask the Charlotte, NC, area if they think so. 

4.  The most important point even if you disagree with the 3 above is.....you don't play the schedule.  Again, the strength of schedule for a southern WV AA school is simply not difficult and Bluefield only has to get up 2 times, maybe 3 per year of it's 10 games and it's been like that for years.  If you had to play the schedule strength which leads to more injuries which then cuts into your depth chart, things are a bit different, but again.......I agree with you that for this year, Bluefield could not just play with or beat any AA team in SWVA, they would play with any AA team in Va including Appo (wouldn't win, but it would be within 14 points). 

Bluefield researcher is the last guy you wanna try to argue stats on. He's about to shut everything you just said down. 

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4 minutes ago, Ryan4VT said:

Bluefield researcher is the last guy you wanna try to argue stats on. He's about to shut everything you just said down. 

Arguing stats"  I didn't argue stats.  I argued facts.  Fact 1.  Bluefield plays a weak schedule.  Fact 2.  Bluefield has been historically larger than the overwhelming majority of AA schools in SWVA over the years.  Fact 3. High School Football in WV is nowhere near as tough as that in Virginia.  If you anyone cares to argue the 3 above, then they are making a fool of themselves.  If you read this post,  I gave Bluefield much credit and stated they would play Appo as close or closer than any team in Va's AA this year. 

The above paragraph if one objectively reads it is pretty common-sense straight forward that few would disagree with in my opinion.  But, as for the comment made about Bluefield being better year in and year out than every school in SWVA, well.......we simply disagree on that, and as for shutting me down, I can hold my own pretty well when nothing is debated but common sense.  Can one really reply, "WV football is BETTER than Va football'?  Can one reply, "The Beavers play a wicked schedule?"  Common sense answers those questions.  The two best teams on Bluefield's schedule reside in Tazewell County, not Point Pleasant, WV.

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1 minute ago, TTownTigers said:

Arguing stats"  I didn't argue stats.  I argued facts.  Fact 1.  Bluefield plays a weak schedule.  Fact 2.  Bluefield has been historically larger than the overwhelming majority of AA schools in SWVA over the years.  Fact 3. High School Football in WV is nowhere near as tough as that in Virginia.  If you anyone cares to argue the 3 above, then they are making a fool of themselves.  If you read this post, which I gave Bluefield much credit and stated they would play Appo as close or closer than any team in Va's AA this year. 

The above paragraph if one objectively reads it is pretty common-sense straight forward that few would disagree with in my opinion.

Bluefield plays a weak schedule because no one in their state that is of equal size will play them. The've had 8 and 9 game schedules galore because people won't play them. Why? Because Bluefield is the class of this boards coverage area in football. Hell, they resorted to playing Graham twice for a few years. Bluefield is a AA school by Virginia numbers. They have 690 students. Richlands is 681, to give you some context. There are 11 schools bigger than Bluefield currently in 2A in VA. And another 14 2A schools that are within 50 kids of Bluefield. They are NOT larger than most of the school. They are right in the with the rest of SWVA. And yes, high school football in WV isn't as good as it is in VA. The largest schools in WV are nowhere near the largest in VA, and there are more schools in VA by a long shot, with a bigger population. With bigger population comes better athletes to choose from, thus making better teams. 

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16 minutes ago, TTownTigers said:

 

1.  Hopefully, Giles isn't considered SWVA and if so, you all shouldn't scrimmage them anymore.

 

If Giles County isn't in Southwest Virginia,  where the hell is it?  What map are you looking at?

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Just now, SW_VA_boy said:

 

If Giles County isn't in Southwest Virginia,  where the hell is it?  What map are you looking at?

That was my thought. There is a map at the top of this page that is pretty much in line with "SWVA", and Giles is clearly on it. 

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1 minute ago, Ryan4VT said:

Bluefield plays a weak schedule because no one in their state that is of equal size will play them. The've had 8 and 9 game schedules galore because people won't play them. Why? Because Bluefield is the class of this boards coverage area in football. Hell, they resorted to playing Graham twice for a few years. Bluefield is a AA school by Virginia numbers. They have 690 students. Richlands is 681, to give you some context. There are 11 schools bigger than Bluefield currently in 2A in VA. And another 14 2A schools that are within 50 kids of Bluefield. They are NOT larger than most of the school. They are right in the with the rest of SWVA. And yes, high school football in WV isn't as good as it is in VA. The largest schools in WV are nowhere near the largest in VA, and there are more schools in VA by a long shot, with a bigger population. With bigger population comes better athletes to choose from, thus making better teams. 

He's on a Germans bombed Pearl Harbor type roll,  let him go.

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23 minutes ago, SW_VA_boy said:

 

If Giles County isn't in Southwest Virginia,  where the hell is it?  What map are you looking at?

That's my point SWVA boy, Giles is certainly in SWVA.  Bluefield doesn't play the schedule in WV that is tough because one doesn't exist.  For that to exist, they would have to travel and the other team travel on the next year a long way "North and South."  Being only 11 AA schools in Virginia that are larger than Bluefield proves my point  Like I wrote, Bluefield is larger than the overwhelming portion of most AA schools in Virginia, and for context, we are talking recently.  Bluefield has historically been MUCH larger than most of the current AA schools in Virginia and those numbers have become closer in the last 10-15 years as Bluefield has dropped in numbers. 

Back to the point though and not to shift the argument to a more favorable one.

1.  Bluefield plays a weak schedule.  Ryan, you gave reasons why you feel that's the case, but again, the outcome is the same.  They play a weak schedule which was my point.

2.  VA High School football is better than WV High School football.  Researcher gave numbers in populations for Va and WV and again, he gave reasons why, but the point still is the same and the outcome stays the same.  Va Football is still better. 

3.  I stated in the first post that the top 2 in WV AAA could play with Va's best 2 in Class 5-6, and the same for WV AA playing against comparible competition-size, those top two could match Va's top 2 and the same for Single A ball, but the drop-off is there from schools 3 through 16 and you know it.  You know it's true.  We can argue reasons why for eternity.  With that written, I actually gave Bluefield props and stated they would give Appo it's closest game compared any other Virginia AA team this year. 

P.S.  Not that it matters, but you wrote 11 schools in Virginia's AA are larger than Bluefield, then wrote, Bluefield is not larger than most schools. If only 11 AA Virginia Schools are larger than Bluefield, this means the overwhelming number of Virginia's AA schools are Smaller than Bluefield. 

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I never said VA football is better. The point margins in VA are similar to WV and actually there are more blowouts in VA proportionally than WV. For every Montcalm in WV there are 4 Rye Cove's in VA. The middle of the road teams in VA are just like the middle of the road teams in WV. There are just more middle of the road teams in VA because there are more schools.  So there are on average 4 AA schools in VA on the same level as the top team in WV simply because there are 4 to 5 times more of them etc. At the very top on most years VA is better because the biggest VA schools have 2,000 to 3,000 students. No schools in WV have that many. Until recently I would even say that SWVA football was worse than WV because of districts. The very best teams in SWVA were guaranteed cup cakes each and every year. For every game with Powell Valley or even Burton that Applalachia had there was one with Rye Cove, Twin Springs and St. Paul. That was never the case in WV until recently when there just aren't enough good teams for other good teams to play. 

For the record Bluefield has called Giles, Christiansburg, Blacksburg, George Wythe, Abingdon for games ever since Bluefield dropped to AA. Only recently has Giles agreed to scrimmage. Perhaps they are on the path to agreeing to regular season games. Christiansburg agrees to scrimmage but not to play regular season. Blacksburg actually agreed to play 2 years ago but Thad Wells scratched that idea before the paperwork was done.

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7 minutes ago, Bluefield researcher said:

 

For the record Bluefield has called Giles, Christiansburg, Blacksburg, George Wythe, Abingdon for games ever since Bluefield dropped to AA. Only recently has Giles agreed to scrimmage. Perhaps they are on the path to agreeing to regular season games. Christiansburg agrees to scrimmage but not to play regular season. Blacksburg actually agreed to play 2 years ago but Thad Wells scratched that idea before the paperwork was done.

I wish Giles would drop Christiansburg and pick up Bluefield. We don't need to drop Graham and we will never drop Narrows. Blacksburg should stay on the schedule but I would drop Christiansburg. From what I heard Cburg tried dropping Giles a few years back but their AD didn't want that.

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