Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 yeah...i'm saying you take the points and let your defense do it's job...i'd rather take a TD on the ground with 1 min left and 80 yards to go and know they had to have a TD than put it all on the kicker....insert Norwood ref here. You have to have a perfect snap, perfect hold, perfect kick, perfect blocking...and no penalties...under a ton of pressure. I'll take the TD and the sure points any day. I bet Dallas sure wishes they had the TD at Seattle a few years back when Romo duffed the hold. You don't really need "perfect" snaps, holds, kicks, blocking, etc. You just need to avoid a catastrophic failure. So long as toe meets leather and it makes it past the line, it's pretty much going to be good from under 30 yards. Probably why Tynes hasn't missed one from that distance in 5 years. Penalties are probably the biggest worry, but how often do you see a kicking unit jump offsides? Very seldom, maybe 1% of all FGs/XPs. I still think the safest bet is to take the FG, but either side has its criticism if the unthinkable happens. But all that said, the point's largely irrelevant since Brady's WRs couldn't capitalize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 You don't really need "perfect" snaps, holds, kicks, blocking, etc. You just need to avoid a catastrophic failure. So long as toe meets leather and it makes it past the line, it's pretty much going to be good from under 30 yards. Probably why Tynes hasn't missed one from that distance in 5 years. Penalties are probably the biggest worry, but how often do you see a kicking unit jump offsides? Very seldom, maybe 1% of all FGs/XPs. I still think the safest bet is to take the FG, but either side has its criticism if the unthinkable happens. But all that said, the point's largely irrelevant since Brady's WRs couldn't capitalize. Don't know how many Giants games you have seen this year, but they are bad to get flagged for holding more than anything...I don't know how many runs i've seen AB and Jacobs get that were called back for it. Point is there are a lot of variables involved to consider. Any penalty and clock run off would be a disaster at that point...lineman tweaks, one of the end guys leans too much...doesn't take much. Sports Illustrated article mentions this: "I thought I heard Eli yelling at me to fall down ... I tried," Bradshaw would say, but not unhappily. People can argue about the right and wrong thing to do there. If Bradshaw had stopped and not scored the touchdown, and the field goal was somehow missed, that would be the worst decision in the history of the NFL. Of course, if he had scored and Brady then drove the Patriots for the win, people would second-guess that too. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/joe_posnanski/02/06/super.bowl.xlvi/index.html#ixzz1lfboFLnz speaking of which, i wonder if AB's flop will make the cover of SI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Someone disagrees with you. I am back. I let you out of your cage, I can put you back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 ....insert Norwood ref here. you can't compare a 47 yard attempt to one from extra point distance..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH31 2,532 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 speaking of which, i wonder if AB's flop will make the cover of SI? Lance you know they'll have a big picture of Eli on there. Bradshaw is probably one of the few people ever to be the leading rusher, score the game winning TD, & not even get interviewed after the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublue 939 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/bradshaw_td_works_out_for_giants_c3gAz3Rhahszb39uZt4fhK This excerpt was in the above link...Eli takes responsibility for NOT telling Bradshaw in the huddle to NOT score. "Yeah. It was a mistake by me. I had a feeling they might do that. I should have got to him and told him not to score," Eli Manning said. "As I broke the huddle it kind of crossed my mind. As I got the snap I saw their (defensive) line just ease up and I was yelling to Ahmad not to score, not to score. "I think he thought about it and tried to stop at the last second, but rolled in." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 you can't compare a 47 yard attempt to one from extra point distance..... sure you can...a miss is a miss...i've even seen teams take a penalty when down on the goal line to back it up a little to kick a FG. How far was the kick that knocked Dallas out in the Seahawks game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 This excerpt was in the above link...Eli takes responsibility for NOT telling Bradshaw in the huddle to NOT score. "Yeah. It was a mistake by me. I had a feeling they might do that. I should have got to him and told him not to score," Eli Manning said. "As I broke the huddle it kind of crossed my mind. As I got the snap I saw their (defensive) line just ease up and I was yelling to Ahmad not to score, not to score. "I think he thought about it and tried to stop at the last second, but rolled in." Either that directly contradicts his postgame statements, or he was unclear in the postgame and this is the actual story. Could've been the excitement of the moment, and that should be a warning to me in the future not to put so much stock into postgame comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 you can't compare a 47 yard attempt to one from extra point distance..... Of course the distance matters, but that's just one aspect of the play. There's the snap, the hold, the possibility of it being blocked. Nobody is saying it was going to be difficult to make the FG, but in a critical point of a game like this nerves do play a factor. And yes, even extra points have been missed under much less stressful circumstances. The percentages are in favor of a successful FG, but the percentages of Ahmad scoring on that play were much more favorable. I'll take my chances with the sure thing 100% of the time, and I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 you can't compare a 47 yard attempt to one from extra point distance..... This. It would be ludicrous to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuceswild 15 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 you can't compare a 47 yard attempt to one from extra point distance..... This. It would be ludicrous to do so. Actually nothing is beyond reasonable comparison. The comparisons not be close as to the percentage of success, but it's not ludicrous to draw a comparison. As I said in my previous post, there are other factors that figure in on a play like this. I'll say it again. There's the snap, the hold, the possibility of it being blocked. Nobody is saying it was going to be difficult to make the FG, but in a critical point of a game like this nerves do play a factor. And yes, even extra points have been missed under much less stressful circumstances. The percentages are in favor of a successful FG, but the percentages of Ahmad scoring on that play were much more favorable. I'll take my chances with the sure thing 100% of the time, and I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Variable Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Of course the distance matters, but that's just one aspect of the play. There's the snap, the hold, the possibility of it being blocked. Nobody is saying it was going to be difficult to make the FG, but in a critical point of a game like this nerves do play a factor. And yes, even extra points have been missed under much less stressful circumstances. The percentages are in favor of a successful FG, but the percentages of Ahmad scoring on that play were much more favorable. I'll take my chances with the sure thing 100% of the time, and I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages. I wonder, if he had been able to stop at the goal line (nobody was within 5 yards of him) how much time he might have shaved off before someone came to tackle him. I think he made the right decision. Its his job to score, its the defenses job to stop the comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Of course the distance matters, but that's just one aspect of the play. There's the snap, the hold, the possibility of it being blocked. Nobody is saying it was going to be difficult to make the FG, but in a critical point of a game like this nerves do play a factor. And yes, even extra points have been missed under much less stressful circumstances. The percentages are in favor of a successful FG, but the percentages of Ahmad scoring on that play were much more favorable. I'll take my chances with the sure thing 100% of the time, and I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages. You're missing the last step in the analysis, Blue. The 'sure thing' put the ball back in the hands of a QB who won two Super Bowls precisely by leading his team down the field with little time remaining on the clock. Ask the Carolina Panthers and the St. Louis Rams how that turned out. The second thing that's really agitating me is that people here are talking like XPs get shanked 2-3 times per game. Those kicks are made literally 99 percent of the time. That's not hyperbole: look up the number of NFL XPs and FGs under 20 yards made. It's 99 percent. Tynes hadn't missed an XP or FG under 30 yards in 5 years. That includes blocks. Why are these facts constantly overlooked?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'll take my chances with the sure thing 100% of the time, and I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages. If you're going by the percentages you also have to consider the odds of the other team scoring given the amount of time remaining. As stated before, there's a reason the Patriots decided to give the Giants the "sure thing". The percentages favored the Giants either way, so your "I'll beat you more than you'll beat me, just going by the percentages" is misleading... Edited February 7, 2012 by parsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I let you out of your cage, I can put you back... i sure didn't let him out...he could use a night in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) You're missing the last step in the analysis, Blue. The 'sure thing' put the ball back in the hands of a QB who won two Super Bowls precisely by leading his team down the field with little time remaining on the clock. Ask the Carolina Panthers and the St. Louis Rams how that turned out. The second thing that's really agitating me is that people here are talking like XPs get shanked 2-3 times per game. Those kicks are made literally 99 percent of the time. That's not hyperbole: look up the number of NFL XPs and FGs under 20 yards made. It's 99 percent. Tynes hadn't missed an XP or FG under 30 yards in 5 years. That includes blocks. Why are these facts constantly overlooked?! I would like to know what the percentages are in like situations during a Super Bowl game for all the marbles. I would bet the team that scores before time runs out, even when giving the opposing team one minute plus on the clock wins almost every time. I know this is Tom Brady, but this is also the New York Giants defense. In the two cases you mentioned, I don't know for sure because I haven't researched it, but I would bet Brady had more time on the clock. I don't disagree that 99% of the time the kick is made, and GAME OVER. But it's that 1% that worries me. I had rather take my chances with my defense if I'm the Giants. Edited February 7, 2012 by blueinbama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Variable Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 i sure didn't let him out...he could use a night in the box. If that is the precedent you want to set, by all means its your forum. But I would ask that you put somewhere in the community guidelines that thoughtful criticism of SWVA-born atheletes is off limits. Just so we can make it official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I guess at this point I'll have to concede we are beating a dead horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 You guys can say whatever you want....THIS is why you take the TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FOTeWUjHIo watch, listen, learn. almost the exact same situation..."IF" Bradshaw didn't flop in to the end zone. The last thing that is said by the great John Madden is "There is nothing automatic in football". You guys can all shut up now. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 If that is the precedent you want to set, by all means its your forum. But I would ask that you put somewhere in the community guidelines that thoughtful criticism of SWVA-born atheletes is off limits. Just so we can make it official. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's a reasonable point, too. My final word is that I'm flabbergasted that people argue not only in the face of realism and percentages. Also, both coaches with 5 Super Bowl rings between then, the defense of one wanted to allow an immediate score and the offense of the other that didn't want to score. My last shot on the dead horse, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's a reasonable point, too. My final word is that I'm flabbergasted that people argue not only in the face of realism and percentages. Also, both coaches with 5 Super Bowl rings between then, the defense of one wanted to allow an immediate score and the offense of the other that didn't want to score. My last shot on the dead horse, I promise. here's another view for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ..... I find it unwise to belittle users who are making legitimate points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 here's another view for you. Doesn't change my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.01bb665814ffc257795fe158cb2045c7.png.8a531ac878a82772b21014d7a6167582.png){kind=logo}
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.