VHSL redistricting proposal

[RichlandsAlum 678]

What people need to realize here is that this initial plan is just that---an initial one. It looks as if the VHSL just needed to put together a starting point that's relatively close to the current district alignments, then give the schools the chance to appeal the placements.

 

I doubt the SWD will end up with only four schools. If nothing else, I think Carroll County will want to stay rather than move to the River Ridge. If they wanted to move, they would have tried to do so before now.

 

It's going to be interesting how the RRD and Blue Ridge end up....I doubt Franklin County is going to want to go to the Seminole with so many Roanoke area schools close by.

 

Just my opinions, but here goes.

 

Carroll County has no business playing in the SWD. That's a temporary arrangement that has long outlived its usefulness for both sides. And given the ability to span divisions, they could probably find a district home that wouldn't require their volleyball team to spend a lot of time on the bus during school nights. There is certainly no logical imperative which indicates that they would have to go to the River Ridge. Swapping Carroll County to the MED for Graham is a pretty quick and logical fix right off the bat.

 

The treatment of the Roanoke schools is positively bizarre. Unless they requested it (and I have a hard time believing that this is the case), it makes no sense to put William Fleming and PH-Roanoke in different districts. And for travel purposes, I agree completely that Franklin County should have at least two better options than the Seminole.

 

The committee should have given more thought to the proposal. Frankly, it doesn't require much imagination to come up with logical district alignments. It's fine to develop an "initial" plan for discussion, but one as uninspired as this one seems like an exercise in calculated mediocrity. Seriously..... four team districts??? At best, this proposal is a waste of time that will simply push individual schools and districts to negotiate their own arrangements (as is the case in the NCAA). At worst, it's likely to stoke opposition to realignment -- which is something that is long overdue.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Just my opinions, but here goes.

 

Carroll County has no business playing in the SWD. That's a temporary arrangement that has long outlived its usefulness for both sides. And given the ability to span divisions, they could probably find a district home that wouldn't require their volleyball team to spend a lot of time on the bus during school nights. There is certainly no logical imperative which indicates that they would have to go to the River Ridge. Swapping Carroll County to the MED for Graham is a pretty quick and logical fix right off the bat.

 

I'm a huge fan of this, don't get me wrong. But to play devil's advocate, wouldn't Carroll be a medium-sized 3 under this arrangement? They'd be playing small 1s like Narrows and Bland in a new MED. While it's allowed under the VHSL plan, those schools, justifiably, would be screaming bloody murder.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

I'm a huge fan of this, don't get me wrong. But to play devil's advocate, wouldn't Carroll be a medium-sized 3 under this arrangement? They'd be playing small 1s like Narrows and Bland in a new MED. While it's allowed under the VHSL plan, those schools, justifiably, would be screaming bloody murder.

 

I've considered that, and you're probably right. But if you'll allow me to stretch the logic just a bit....

 

Why would they scream? Aside from the fact that they would be at a disadvantage in terms of winning the district championship (which might turn out to be meaningless in and of itself), it shouldn't impact their ability to qualify for playoffs and compete at the state level. And they'd be guaranteed a quality opponent on a yearly basis that would benefit them in ways that are both tangible and intangible.

 

Furthermore, I'm not convinced that Carroll County would be any more successful in the MED from a competitive standpoint across the board than Graham is proving to be.

 

Again, this is a stretch. But not as great as it appears to be at first glance.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I've considered that, and you're probably right. But if you'll allow me to stretch the logic just a bit....

 

Why would they scream? Aside from the fact that they would be at a disadvantage in terms of winning the district championship (which might turn out to be meaningless in and of itself), it shouldn't impact their ability to qualify for playoffs and compete at the state level. And they'd be guaranteed a quality opponent on a yearly basis that would benefit them in ways that are both tangible and intangible.

 

Furthermore, I'm not convinced that Carroll County would be any more successful in the MED from a competitive standpoint across the board than Graham is proving to be.

 

Again, this is a stretch. But not as great as it appears to be at first glance.

 

There's some merit in that. I think it would boil down (in football) to whether it gives more points to lose to a 3A team than it is to beat a 2A or 1A foe. For teams like Narrows and Bland, it's pretty much irrelevant, because we're talking about getting beaten 56-0 rather than 42-0. For teams like Fort Chiswell, who missed the playoffs by 3 VHSL points last season, it could make a huge difference.

 

To the second point, I think the whole of Carroll's athletic program has overtaken Graham's program from a competitive standpoint when examining all sports. It used not to be that way when Graham was rolling off 8+ win seasons in football and 16+ win seasons in basketball fairly consistently, adding to that competitive teams in track + field, golf, and tennis. However, lately, Graham has fallen off quite a bit in football and basketball. Carroll's maintained an average football and basketball program, while growing the talent disparity in sports like baseball, softball, and volleyball. Of course, this is all in flux over time, but for now, I have trouble thinking that Carroll and Graham are a wash at best.

[Lance 228]

I don't think the powers to be in Bristol would let Battle and Va High be in separate districts again. Might be wrong. I'd trade Honaker for Battle along with getting Graham and Grundy back in the mix. But...we all know this is the VHSL so what would make the most sense usually doesn't happen. At least Carroll is gone....

 

VA High could join in the SWD as well...started to put that in my original post.

 

an 8 to 10 team SWD would solve a LOT of proplems and still leave some wiggle room for teams like Graham and Bluefield or Richlands and Gate City or Tazewell and Honaker to play if they wanted to.

 

 

If it were up to me, this would be your SWD:

Grundy

Graham

Tazewell

Richalnds

Lebanon

Va High

JSB

Marion

Abingdon

 

 

That would be some great games in all sports, cut travel time, make schedules a LOT easier...just a no brainer...these are all within an hour and a half drive of each other at the worst...the majority of games played would be under an hours travel.

[VHSLhelper 571]

Odd... I couldn't get it open, either. Go to

http://www.vhsl.org/classification.alignment-2013-15

and it'll open ftom there.

[trublue 939]

Odd... I couldn't get it open, either. Go to

http://www.vhsl.org/classification.alignment-2013-15

and it'll open ftom there.

 

Yeah, I looked at the URL I posted yesterday from the other site and it has been changed.

 

Thanks for posting another working link Helper.

[Sleepin nuts 27]

I think these initial R&R proposals are flawed with a purpose.

I believe they are applying flaws to allow room for a negotiated settlement.

Carroll does not fit into the River Ridge and Franklin Co does not fit into the Seminole. I think they placed them there so that when the VHSL members as a whole makes a list of gripes as to where these and many others are going to go they will be able to say "OK we will move Carroll and Franklin but not team C and D." Therefore everybody feels like they won something even if they must lose some arguments.

[UNIONFAN 10]

Something i seen that was unfair so to speak is two schools that ar 2A being in districts with 5A schools. Walker M Gov has 707 students annd will be in the Colonial District with 4 5As 2 4As and 3 3As. And John Champe is the only team smaller than 4A in the Dulles district. I can see if a team is a 2A in a perdominate 1A or vice versa but not that big of a gap. Thats a little unfair IMO

[hoard 18]

Something i seen that was unfair so to speak is two schools that ar 2A being in districts with 5A schools. Walker M Gov has 707 students annd will be in the Colonial District with 4 5As 2 4As and 3 3As. And John Champe is the only team smaller than 4A in the Dulles district. I can see if a team is a 2A in a perdominate 1A or vice versa but not that big of a gap. Thats a little unfair IMO

 

I'm just speculating here, but seeing as how John Champe is a brand new school, they may not have a senior class their first year and the expectation is that they will eventually be 3A or 4a in a year or so. I know this has been the case with new schools in the past.

[hoard 18]

I wonder what the procedure will be for settling disputes over the alignment.

 

One example that comes to mind...

 

Let's say 2A Marion appeals to join the Hogo rather than remain in the SWD. The Hogo has six 1A schools and some (or even all) of them won't want Marion in the league because of their enrollment. What then?

 

I assume if all six agreed to let Marion in, it would happen. But what happens if it isn't unanimous? Do they get in with 5 of 6, or 4 of 6 approving? When does the VHSL get involved?

 

Now multiply that scenario times, I don't know, dozens??

 

I also wonder if the VHSL isn't making a mistake by not having the playoff qualification process for each sport ironed out BEFORE the appeals are heard. Some of the smaller schools that will be in a district with larger schools might want to know how difficult their road to the post-season will be before agreeing to play in a mixed district.

[Lance 228]

i thought they were not going to listed to appeals once its finalized? or at least thats what I heard.

[futbolking 766]

This my friends is called arrogance. Can't wait to watch you guys get your ass busted.

 

I've watched a lot of D-2 ball in the past 12 years or so.....this guy has no clue....

 

Richlands had the easy life in the SWD....times are about to change for them....no longer a cakewalk to the regional finals every year...(no more regional finals for that matter)....

[futbolking 766]

I wonder what the procedure will be for settling disputes over the alignment.

 

One example that comes to mind...

 

Let's say 2A Marion appeals to join the Hogo rather than remain in the SWD. The Hogo has six 1A schools and some (or even all) of them won't want Marion in the league because of their enrollment. What then?

 

I assume if all six agreed to let Marion in, it would happen. But what happens if it isn't unanimous? Do they get in with 5 of 6, or 4 of 6 approving? When does the VHSL get involved?

 

Now multiply that scenario times, I don't know, dozens??

 

I also wonder if the VHSL isn't making a mistake by not having the playoff qualification process for each sport ironed out BEFORE the appeals are heard. Some of the smaller schools that will be in a district with larger schools might want to know how difficult their road to the post-season will be before agreeing to play in a mixed district.

 

I don't think it'll matter much to Marion....with Grundy out of the SWD (no long trip)....and only 3 teams to play in the district with Carroll gone, they can basically schedule 7 games with whoever they want...I'm going to guess they'll keep Chilhowie, Northwood,Patrick Henry, John Battle.. probably Rural Retreat....and any of the Hogoheegee teams that will play them....not a bad deal for them.

 

I do however see your point...and that scenario could likely happen with several teams.

Edited February 8, 2012 by futbolking

[Bulldogs52 483]

This my friends is called arrogance. Can't wait to watch you guys get your ass busted.

 

This is coming quicker than people think, IMO their on there way down... No matter what happens, they had their run!

[Lance 228]

This is coming quicker than people think, IMO their on there way down... No matter what happens, they had their run!

 

i think you have wishful thinking lol.

[Hokies4Ever 23]

The talent level at Richlands isn't going down. The talent level coming through will keep Richlands at the top for many years to come.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

The talent level at Richlands isn't going down. The talent level coming through will keep Richlands at the top for many years to come.

 

There will eventually be lean times. Happens everywhere in SWVA, the byproduct of smaller schools.

[Ditto 10]

I've watched a lot of D-2 ball in the past 12 years or so.....this guy has no clue....

 

Richlands had the easy life in the SWD....times are about to change for them....no longer a cakewalk to the regional finals every year...(no more regional finals for that matter)....

 

Last time I checked every team starts the season with the same record and the same opportunity, it's nice to know in all your wisdom tho that you can also see the future and tell that Richlands will have NO CHANCE of making it anywhere in the playoffs after realignment, it never surprises me to see the Anti Richlands Biased come out in you guys.

[Lance 228]

Last time I checked every team starts the season with the same record and the same opportunity, it's nice to know in all your wisdom tho that you can also see the future and tell that Richlands will have NO CHANCE of making it anywhere in the playoffs after realignment, it never surprises me to see the Anti Richlands Biased come out in you guys.

 

boils down to jealousy...runs rampant around here.

[trigger 10]

I actually think Richlands will find tougher competition in D2 locally. The last few years the only competition they have seen in D3 is Cave Spring. D2 features some very good teams and now that the playoff system has changed in single A to include teams like Gretna and Riverheads, I think Richlands will be tested earlier in the playoffs than usual.

 

It also must be said that it will be the opposite if Richlands makes it to the state level. There are not many teams that can stack up to Northside, Brookville, and other elite D3 teams in any of D2.

 

I for one have thought for several years now that D2 has been better then D3 locally from top to bottom. One must also consider that there are few D3 schools compared to the number of D2s Roanoke and south.

[Lance 228]

Richlands and Clintwood late in the year would have been an interesting game to watch.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

I don't think it'll matter much to Marion....with Grundy out of the SWD (no long trip)....and only 3 teams to play in the district with Carroll gone, they can basically schedule 7 games with whoever they want...I'm going to guess they'll keep Chilhowie, Northwood,Patrick Henry, John Battle.. probably Rural Retreat....and any of the Hogoheegee teams that will play them....not a bad deal for them.

 

I do however see your point...and that scenario could likely happen with several teams.

 

Disagree with you about the nature of districts. The main point is to provide individual schools with as many guaranteed games as possible. With only three scheduling partners, Marion will have to scramble to find 7 games every two years. If those schools don't want them in the same district, it's not much of a logical leap to assume that they won't want to play them at all.

 

If they can agree to play every year, then they might as well be in the same district. Particularly if the district title is only a matter of pride. Remember....we're not talking about the quality of play or an equitable level of competition here. This is all about geography and economics. That's one probable explanation for the "span" provision within districts.

 

Make no mistake. 4 team districts are a very bad deal. That's why there aren't many of them to begin with, and why very few remain in operation.

Edited February 8, 2012 by RichlandsAlum

[parsons 178]

I actually think Richlands will find tougher competition in D2 locally. The last few years the only competition they have seen in D3 is Cave Spring. D2 features some very good teams and now that the playoff system has changed in single A to include teams like Gretna and Riverheads, I think Richlands will be tested earlier in the playoffs than usual.

 

It also must be said that it will be the opposite if Richlands makes it to the state level. There are not many teams that can stack up to Northside, Brookville, and other elite D3 teams in any of D2.

 

I for one have thought for several years now that D2 has been better then D3 locally from top to bottom. One must also consider that there are few D3 schools compared to the number of D2s Roanoke and south.

 

I agree

[rhs82 28]

I am from Richlands and I think two of the toughest games we had in 2011 were with Gate City and Union.