The 2012 Atlanta Braves thread....

[BlueTornadoFan 17]

we have no offense...yeah they scored 5 runs in the later innings but overall...no offense...they need a 3-4 hitter BAD.

 

Only way I see the Braves getting a hitter is by trading one of the pitchers from the farm teams....

[Lance 228]

Only way I see the Braves getting a hitter is by trading one of the pitchers from the farm teams....

 

its not going to happen...they will sink the ship before they give up any good prospects...they've made that clear.

 

I just wonder how far back they will get before they start playing ball...they looked like they could care less today....pathetic.

[Bluefield_Rules 46]

Wow, J Francisco is a defensive stud; three errors through 4 innings tonight!

[Canes00 434]

Don't be shocked if gonzalez gets fired and bobby cox comes back as manager

[BlueTornadoFan 17]

Don't be shocked if gonzalez gets fired and bobby cox comes back as manager

 

Like that's really going to happen....

[Canes00 434]

0-4 way to go braves

[bluefieldRocks 14]

This keeps up. I'm not sure how Freddi will keep his job.

 

 

And i'm 100% cool with that. I never wanted him to begin with.

[BigD4VT 11]

"To judge a baseball team off its first series is akin to rating an NFL club on how it handles the opening kickoff of Week 1." - Mark Bowman, MLB.COM

 

 

I've been watching the Braves and pouring over stats since I was 11 years old. With what the Braves have they should win about 90 games. There are slumps and losing streaks in every season, and every team has them, but when they happen at the beginning of a season there is more of a panic. And in the Braves case, the slump goes back to the end of last season. I believe they will get on track and win their 90 games... but there are a few things that concern me so far.

 

One is that Frank Wren doesn't seem to place much importance on defense. He traded for Dan Uggla, who isn't a good defender, to replace Prado who is. I'm glad to have Uggla's power in the lineup but I like Prado at 2B. Then there is the trade for Juan Francisco. The three errors he made last night weren't an aberation. He's not a good fielder. Never has been. Wren said he has a lot of upside, but it's obvious he means as a hitter. And it's obvious that Wren doesn't value defense. When you have good pitching you have to have good defense behind them.

 

Another is Fredi Gonzalez. I do like him and I want him to be a good manager... But what I've seen so far is when guys do get on base nothing happens. No sac bunts. No steals. No hit & run. No nothing. This is a pitchers game now. If you can eck out an extra run or two by playing small ball you have a better chance of winning then if you sit back and wait for a home run. Another knock on him is the bullpen. Most people blame the collapse last year on his over use of O'Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrell. They have one of the best bullpens in baseball but you have to use them properly. Frank Wren really likes the team that's on the field so if the Braves don't at least finish in 2nd place this year Gonzalez could be in trouble.

 

A lot of people think the Braves should be out making trades and signing free agents but I dissagree. You can buy a championship that way but a long term winner has to be built from within. The Braves have some really good prospects that put you in mind of the late 80's, early 90's. Back then they resisted the urge to trade top prospects like Chipper Jones and Tom Glavine, and jumped at the chance to satisfy Detroit's urge to "win now" by sending them 36 year old starting pitcher Doyle Alexander in exchange for their top prospect, John Smoltz. He helped the Tigers get to the ALCS (they lost) then retired a couple of years later. Of course we all know what Smoltz did. When you have prospects you think will be quality major leaugers you hold onto them. Period. Who here doesn't wish the Braves still had Adam Wainright, Neftali Feliz, and Elvis Andrus?

[Bluefield_Rules 46]

There have been a lot of questionable managerial decision just four games into the season from bullpen choices to starting lineups and pinch-hitters. And the late spring training additions of Durbin, Francisco, and Hernandez have been as crappy as they appeared to be.

[BigD4VT 11]

There have been a lot of questionable managerial decision just four games into the season from bullpen choices to starting lineups and pinch-hitters. And the late spring training additions of Durbin, Francisco, and Hernandez have been as crappy as they appeared to be.

I'm not worried about Durbin as he's a mop-up man. He came in last night when they were down 6-3. Doesn't really matter that it ended up 8-3. He's there, at least at this point, to eat the lost cause innings. I like the Hernandez move. I think he will be a solid long man before it's all said and done. I think at this point he's not used to relieving and it will take a little time. I'm sure Roger McDowell is working with him every day. Francicso, I like him as a pinch hitter because of his power but that's about it. He wouldn't even need to own a glove if he were on my team.

 

I really do like Fredi, if for no other reason than Bobby Cox liked him and wanted him to be his successor, but if the Braves under achieve this year (on top of the collapse last year) then I don't think he will be the manager in 2013.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

"To judge a baseball team off its first series is akin to rating an NFL club on how it handles the opening kickoff of Week 1." - Mark Bowman, MLB.COM

 

This is what I've been saying on this board for darned near 9 years.

 

The same people who pay attention to Week 1 of the MLB season are the same people who cheer and moan with every stock update. "YAY, Apple went up .07, I'm rich! BOO, Apple went down .12, SELL SELL SELL."

 

ESPN does this to drive up ratings, and it honestly concerns me how many people actually take the bait. There are 158 more games to go. Now, if a team starts out 20-30, then it might be time to start paying attention.

 

TL;DR: wake me up in July.

[Lance 228]

The thing is. the Braves has always been a better road team...and if they start out 0-6 on the road and can't even take 1-3 from the Mets, combined with how they are losing...it's not looking good at all...the Braves are not a sound team as far as fundamental baseball goes...Freddie has been in a free fall since last September and I wonder how long you let that go on before you make a change. Someone has to be held accountable for a team that is making more errors than a little league team (5 errors in 4 games?) I remember what went on during the collapse last season very well...errors killed us....thats bad baseball.

 

As much as people want to talk about how the game has changed and how its a pitchers game now...Atlanta is still stuck in the 90s thinking and betting the farm that pitching will win you a championship...and it doesnt...and yes you have to buy it...you have to pay to bring in some offensive production...Uggla has been a disaster...his numbers evened out somewhat last season, but he was not consistent and that cost them some games...which in turn cost them making the playoffs.

 

This is not a case of "hey its the first week and you guys are stupid for getting bent"...this goes back to the end of last August....and if you can't see that and see the lack of leadership from the front office on down, you are blind.

 

We are 0-4 and got beat 8-3 last night...we are the only team in the majors 4 games back already...if not for the Twins, we would be the only winless team in MLB. It's not time to hit the panic button yet...but at some point you have to start looking at making some changes...and the fans should not put up with it...stop buying Braves stuff, stop going to the games...if you continue to support an inferior product then thats all you will ever get...and that's what we've got.

[BigD4VT 11]

The thing is. the Braves has always been a better road team...and if they start out 0-6 on the road and can't even take 1-3 from the Mets, combined with how they are losing...it's not looking good at all...the Braves are not a sound team as far as fundamental baseball goes...Freddie has been in a free fall since last September and I wonder how long you let that go on before you make a change. Someone has to be held accountable for a team that is making more errors than a little league team (5 errors in 4 games?) I remember what went on during the collapse last season very well...errors killed us....thats bad baseball.

 

As much as people want to talk about how the game has changed and how its a pitchers game now...Atlanta is still stuck in the 90s thinking and betting the farm that pitching will win you a championship...and it doesnt...and yes you have to buy it...you have to pay to bring in some offensive production...Uggla has been a disaster...his numbers evened out somewhat last season, but he was not consistent and that cost them some games...which in turn cost them making the playoffs.

 

This is not a case of "hey its the first week and you guys are stupid for getting bent"...this goes back to the end of last August....and if you can't see that and see the lack of leadership from the front office on down, you are blind.

 

We are 0-4 and got beat 8-3 last night...we are the only team in the majors 4 games back already...if not for the Twins, we would be the only winless team in MLB. It's not time to hit the panic button yet...but at some point you have to start looking at making some changes...and the fans should not put up with it...stop buying Braves stuff, stop going to the games...if you continue to support an inferior product then thats all you will ever get...and that's what we've got.

 

1) I went back 10 years and the only year they had a better record on the road than at home was 2009.

 

2) Doesn't matter how much offense you have. If you don't have pitching you won't get far. The Braves have pitching, but they also tried all winter to improve the offense but they couldn't make trades just for the sake of making trades. It had to actually improve the team without comprimising the future.

 

3) No one is stupid for getting bent out of shape... Fans of the Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox get bent out of shape pitch by pitch. Nothing wrong with it. But I do think it's all for nothing in this case... The collapse last August was in large part due to tired arms in the backend of the bullpen. The Braves have the best trio of relievers in the game but they used them too much last year. The leadership (at least the front office part of it) is widely regarded as one of the best in baseball and has been for years. You don't have the success they've had without leadership.

 

4) With all due respect, teams that panic too soon, and teams that want to "win now" at all costs are the teams that find themselves in dead last in a few years. And when you're in last place with a roster full over overpaid "has beens" and a depleted minor league system it's tough to climb out. The Braves are doing things the right way. It just takes patience.

 

5) Well now they are 1-4 and no longer have the worst record in baseball.

[Lance 228]

just meant they have always played better on the road than they are playing....not home vs away wins overall...they played at a place called "The Launch Pad" for years lol...some bad teams there though at times.

 

I'm not saying win at all costs or panic now or anything like it...i'm saying we need a legit 3 -4 hitter...and we do...spend the money and get one.

 

lucky for us, the Twins were off Tuesday so they stay at 0-4 for another day as we crawl up from the MLB cellar.

[hokie07 11]

Monkey off our back now...

 

We go 158-4 IMO FWIW IYAM.

[BigD4VT 11]

I'm not saying win at all costs or panic now or anything like it...i'm saying we need a legit 3 -4 hitter...and we do...spend the money and get one.

I think we can all agree on that except I don't think they need to go out and get one... When it's all said and done Heyward and Freeman will be scary good 3-4 combo. Freeman batted 3rd last night but they are trying to get Heyward some confidence by keeping him low in the order. 2011 was a dissapointment for him but the truth is he was playing hurt. I think once he gets going he will slide into the 3rd spot and stay there for a long time. Freeman will bat 4th. McCann and Uggla are better suited for 5th and 6th.

 

Next year Chipper will have retired (and imediately be named batting coach, IMO) and Bourn will be playing for the Yankees or Red Sox. That will free up some money and allow the Braves to plug some holes. They will need a LF and CF and can go the free agency route, or pursue trades. They will have plenty of bait as those young pitchers they are holding onto now should all be ready. Chipper's replacement is currently in AAA. His name is Joe Terdoslavich. They look very similar on paper and it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine him holding down 3B for as long as Jones did.

 

That's why I'm saying be patient now. Next year is when the Braves will be ready to make a run at the world series.

[1inStripes 932]

Also, if its a better value on the market, they could pick up a solid 3B, and Terdoslavich can go to LF. He has put in work there in the minors also.

[BigD4VT 11]

Also, if its a better value on the market, they could pick up a solid 3B, and Terdoslavich can go to LF. He has put in work there in the minors also.

True, and that gives them more flexibility.

[Lance 228]

I think we can all agree on that except I don't think they need to go out and get one... When it's all said and done Heyward and Freeman will be scary good 3-4 combo. Freeman batted 3rd last night but they are trying to get Heyward some confidence by keeping him low in the order. 2011 was a dissapointment for him but the truth is he was playing hurt. I think once he gets going he will slide into the 3rd spot and stay there for a long time. Freeman will bat 4th. McCann and Uggla are better suited for 5th and 6th.

 

Next year Chipper will have retired (and imediately be named batting coach, IMO) and Bourn will be playing for the Yankees or Red Sox. That will free up some money and allow the Braves to plug some holes. They will need a LF and CF and can go the free agency route, or pursue trades. They will have plenty of bait as those young pitchers they are holding onto now should all be ready. Chipper's replacement is currently in AAA. His name is Joe Terdoslavich. They look very similar on paper and it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine him holding down 3B for as long as Jones did.

 

That's why I'm saying be patient now. Next year is when the Braves will be ready to make a run at the world series.

 

my point is...why not spend a few (not a lot) million and just bring in an older player that has a couple of years left to get you by until that time? Damon for example is a great option...could be had for $1 million or less at this point...and gives you a vet hitter off the bench and a guy that can play part time as we talked about earlier...there are some other older players out there as well that could be brought in...if Heyward and Freeman come around long term, and i think they will...then great we are good...but you need very little to add in the mix right now to make them a much better team...why not spend a little more short term to make a legit run at it.

 

I also still think Fredi needs to go...just my opinion...I don't really like the guy.

[1inStripes 932]

I dont think Damon will come to the NL unless someone gives him an everyday spot in the OF, and that isn't going to happen.

[Lance 228]

I dont think Damon will come to the NL unless someone gives him an everyday spot in the OF, and that isn't going to happen.

 

i think if its that or retire, he will continue to play ball where he can do so.

[BigD4VT 11]

Damon will sign with the Cleveland Indians today. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cleveland-indians-sign-veteran-free-agent-johnny-damon-053800360.html

 

As I've said all along, he didn't want to be a part-time player and the Braves didn't want his defense in LF (or another LH bat in the lineup)

 

"The 38-year-old Damon struggled to attract interest during the offseason due to his lackluster defense abilities in the outfield despite batting .261/.326/.418 with 16 home runs and 73 RBIs in 150 games with the Tampa Bay Rays last season. He also swiped 31 bases."

 

In an interview with Casey Stern and Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio, Damon stated, "I know I've proven a lot, and if the right opportunity comes up, I'll take it, I think the biggest thing holding me back right now, is what if I do take a backup job somewhere, what if somebody gets hurt somewhere else where I would probably prefer to be at? That's why I'm taking my time."

[Bluefield_Rules 46]

Agreed about Damon not being a good fit in Atlanta. However, they wouldn't want his defense in LF, but yet they continue to trot out Matt Diaz every few days?

[Lance 228]

Damon will sign with the Cleveland Indians today. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cleveland-indians-sign-veteran-free-agent-johnny-damon-053800360.html

 

As I've said all along, he didn't want to be a part-time player and the Braves didn't want his defense in LF (or another LH bat in the lineup)

 

"The 38-year-old Damon struggled to attract interest during the offseason due to his lackluster defense abilities in the outfield despite batting .261/.326/.418 with 16 home runs and 73 RBIs in 150 games with the Tampa Bay Rays last season. He also swiped 31 bases."

 

In an interview with Casey Stern and Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio, Damon stated, "I know I've proven a lot, and if the right opportunity comes up, I'll take it, I think the biggest thing holding me back right now, is what if I do take a backup job somewhere, what if somebody gets hurt somewhere else where I would probably prefer to be at? That's why I'm taking my time."

 

he wont play every day in cleveland all year either...truth be known he probably doesnt have many options and the Braves probably never offered him anything....

[BigD4VT 11]

Agreed about Damon not being a good fit in Atlanta. However, they wouldn't want his defense in LF, but yet they continue to trot out Matt Diaz every few days?

Fair enough, but when they brought him back (near the end of last season) it was to serve as a RH pinch hitter. Had they been able to pick up another RH outfielder over the winter he probably would have been cut. They tried all winter and spring to trade for such a player but price was always too high.