Building a successful program

[1inStripes 933]

It amazes me just the diverse amount of names for feeder programs we have in this small area. Midget. Little League. Sandlot. Pony. 

[Union_Fan 2,156]

^^ And Peanut in BSG/APPY. Since 1970 if I remember correctly.

[redtiger 1,742]

IMO in the weight room keep it simple and focus on the major lifts; bench, squat, deadlift and clean. If you do those correctly you will be strong. Add to that some extra and creative stuff that's competition based. Beyond that it's up to the kids. I know me and a couple of other guys stayed after to do extra stuff. I liked to do overhead presses, curls, biceps presses, triceps presses, triceps extensions, medicine ball work, endless machine work,etc, etc and some running(not enough but who wants to run? Lol).

 

Some programs are better than others and take it to a whole different level. As long as you're in the weight room putting in time and pushing yourself you're out working the guy laying on the couch eating Cheetos, drinking Mtn Dew and playing Xbox.

 

Division 1 and Division 2 are popular terms for feeder programs too.

[tornado99 345]

Sounds like what we did. It has been discussed in previous threads, but I am still amazed by the height and athleticism of today's players versus brute strength of my generation.

[JDHoss 249]

I saw Union 3 times, Richlands twice, Graham twice, and Gate City once this year. I have to say that there is no comparison to the vintage PV/Appy/Graham/GC/Richlands teams in terms of sheer physicality. Those teams were just so big and physical up front on both sides of the football that it more than made up for any lack of athleticism in the skill positions. I remember Lunnenburg's Chippie Chapple (at least I think that was his name) explaining why he went for two and the win instead of kicking and getting to OT when he said "they (PV) had 4 and 5 yarded us to death all day long, and I didn't think we could win a battle of 10 yard shootouts with them, so we went for the win." 

[parsons 178]

Coaching is the most important factor.

 

[tornado99 345]

Any of you Gmen have an opinion other than Glynn Carlock, Sr.?

[JGray 60]

Your area little league coaches should be knowledgeable about the game and they should be able to set the ground work to teach them the needed fundamentals of the game. Hopefully this continues until they leave them and join the middle school programs. If the middle school coaches are worth anything, they continue to build on what should have been taught in little league. As a middle school coach if you're not preparing your kids for high school then you are failing them. They should be preparing them mentally as well because lots of kids stop playing as they transition from MS to HS due to not being able to handle the discipline part as a 9th grader. 

[tornado99 345]

Thanks. If your screen name is your identity, I appreciate the feedback of one of the better QBs I watched growing up.

[Mountain Football 1,533]

Your area little league coaches should be knowledgeable about the game and they should be able to set the ground work to teach them the needed fundamentals of the game. Hopefully this continues until they leave them and join the middle school programs. If the middle school coaches are worth anything, they continue to build on what should have been taught in little league. As a middle school coach if you're not preparing your kids for high school then you are failing them. They should be preparing them mentally as well because lots of kids stop playing as they transition from MS to HS due to not being able to handle the discipline part as a 9th grader. 

The middle school aspect of what you're mentioning is what concerns me the most with Graham.  The 8th graders this year will be in for the surprise of their life when they enter the 9th grade next year.  Hopefully our MS program can turn things around next year.

 

Putting a coaching staff together that kids have confidence in and like to play for IMO is key to a successful program.  If kids don't like a coach today there are so many other options out there for them they simply won't play.  

[jarhead24219 440]

UNION is 55 and 19, not great but building a program,POWELL VALLEY had won 401-166-15 with 8 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS,not bad for boys who played in the CAROLINA BLUE.APPALACHIA had 6 state titles and both of these teams beat GATE CITY one year when GATE CITY WON STATE IN THEIR CLASS.COACH MANCE is by far the dean of southwest va football right now ,but TRAVIS TURNER, and GRAHAMS,GILES,GALAX, coaches are all building programs that have and will continue to have great success, lucky us.I think the four teams still playing in AA are the best ones out there, UNION played two of the four , with APPOMATTOX  being 3 or 4 steps in front of us at the skill positions.

[redtiger 1,742]

I was on a middle school staff this past season and we made it very clear from the beginning, this isint little league anymore. We told the kids, if we coach you like a little league team then you will play like a little league team, if we coach you like a varsity team then you will play like a varsity team. We had a blast, the kids had a blast, and the kids responded. By the end of the season we were working on technique stuff that is varsity level, well above what anyone we faced was doing. A lot of that is the kids and their willingness to work hard/drive to be better but a lot of it was us as a staff pushing them to be better. Build them up, encourage them and push them.

 

At the same time I worked with kids that couldn't get in a proper 3 point stance, by the end of the year they were serviceable rotational DTs. That's not a huge win but its building depth for varsity and who knows what kind of players these kids will turn into.  We coached the hell out of the special teams players too, the linemen were putting someone from the opponents kickoff return team on their back almost every kickoff by the end of the season, we had 1 O/D starter on that front line but we sold those kids on being special teams starters and we pushed them to be great at it. That will pay off next year when theyre starters for us on O/D and in the future when the O/D starters for varsity don't have to play ST. They were a very valuable part of the TEAM. I focused on technique with the O/D guys, aggression and intensity with the ST guys(backups) and was able to get production from all of them.   

[tornado99 345]

I was on a middle school staff this past season and we made it very clear from the beginning, this isint little league anymore. We told the kids, if we coach you like a little league team then you will play like a little league team, if we coach you like a varsity team then you will play like a varsity team. We had a blast, the kids had a blast, and the kids responded. By the end of the season we were working on technique stuff that is varsity level, well above what anyone we faced was doing. A lot of that is the kids and their willingness to work hard/drive to be better but a lot of it was us as a staff pushing them to be better. Build them up, encourage them and push them.

 

At the same time I worked with kids that couldn't get in a proper 3 point stance, by the end of the year they were serviceable rotational DTs. That's not a huge win but its building depth for varsity and who knows what kind of players these kids will turn into. We coached the hell out of the special teams players too, the linemen were putting someone from the opponents kickoff return team on their back almost every kickoff by the end of the season, we had 1 O/D starter on that front line but we sold those kids on being special teams starters and we pushed them to be great at it. That will pay off next year when theyre starters for us on O/D and in the future when the O/D starters for varsity don't have to play ST. They were a very valuable part of the TEAM. I focused on technique with the O/D guys, aggression and intensity with the ST guys(backups) and was able to get production from all of them.

I really appreciate your efforts for your young men and the real life examples and details provided. As a former player, and now a parent these responses are very interesting and useful to me when my boys are of age.

[tornado99 345]

UNION is 55 and 19, not great but building a program,POWELL VALLEY had won 401-166-15 with 8 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS,not bad for boys who played in the CAROLINA BLUE.APPALACHIA had 6 state titles and both of these teams beat GATE CITY one year when GATE CITY WON STATE IN THEIR CLASS.COACH MANCE is by far the dean of southwest va football right now ,but TRAVIS TURNER, and GRAHAMS,GILES,GALAX, coaches are all building programs that have and will continue to have great success, lucky us.I think the four teams still playing in AA are the best ones out there, UNION played two of the four , with APPOMATTOX being 3 or 4 steps in front of us at the skill positions.

As one of Mance's first squads, the improvement is amazing over the years. I would contribute some of the success to learning the spread and having more players involved by playing one way. The work ethic was always there in the weight room. We didn't have 7 on 7s, though.

[redtiger 1,742]

Not to hijack the thread(because this has been a really enjoyable one for me) but what Offense was Richlands running before Mance arrived?

[Blue_Crue 49]

Dennis Vaught Veer out of I

[Mountain Football 1,533]

I like the idea of playing 8 on 8 in LIttle League that sixcat mentioned earlier.  It would definitely get the kids more playing time and exposure to the game.  I know of several teams that have 25-30 kids on one little league team with most leagues requiring a minimum of 4 plays per half for each kid.  That's not very much playing time for many kids therefore they drop out.  When I think back to my days of playing midget league we played several teams in a relatively small area.  That same area can barely field one team in each age group.  

[Chappy 72]

Your area little league coaches should be knowledgeable about the game and they should be able to set the ground work to teach them the needed fundamentals of the game. Hopefully this continues until they leave them and join the middle school programs. If the middle school coaches are worth anything, they continue to build on what should have been taught in little league. As a middle school coach if you're not preparing your kids for high school then you are failing them. They should be preparing them mentally as well because lots of kids stop playing as they transition from MS to HS due to not being able to handle the discipline part as a 9th grader. 

In our little area you have 3 age groups in jr. league they all 3 run a different offense and defense and that changes every year because the Daddy's I mean coaches move up with their kids.  Then you get to the middle school and they are running a power I double tights or double wing and the high school is running an air raid spread. I firmly believe that the whole system from high school on down should be running the same o and d or something very close to it.  It also helps if you have a Head coach for more than a 4 year average.

[tornado99 345]

Dennis Vaught Veer out of I

This is correct. Believe it or not, my senior year (Mance's second season), we ran wishbone and I formations.

[sixcat 2,942]

I like the idea of playing 8 on 8 in LIttle League that sixcat mentioned earlier.  It would definitely get the kids more playing time and exposure to the game.  I know of several teams that have 25-30 kids on one little league team with most leagues requiring a minimum of 4 plays per half for each kid.  That's not very much playing time for many kids therefore they drop out.  When I think back to my days of playing midget league we played several teams in a relatively small area.  That same area can barely field one team in each age group.  

It takes a little forethought and planning for rules changes and making sure coaches understand.  The biggest being 6 men on the line of scrimmage for the offense, eligible receivers, and defensive front alignments.  For some reason I have yet to understand, having 3 fewer kids on the field made coaches think anyone should be eligible to go downfield for a pass.  I cannot begin to tell you how often kids "covered up" would go downfield and the coaches couldn't understand why it was a penalty that first season.

 

It takes a little time to work out the rough edges but is well worth it.  But if anyone implements this, expect pushback.  Galax got plenty but stuck it out and 6 years later, are reaping the benefits.

[redtiger 1,742]

Personally I see nothing but benefits for the levels under Middle School. At that age all they need to be doing is learning to block and tackle, plus learning some ball skills. The key is they have to be on the field to learn, 8 man means 1 team becomes 2 and instead of playing 11 kids you're playing 16. It's an idea I never would have thought of but I really like it.

[1inStripes 933]

I agree.  Its a great concept.

[JGray 60]

Thanks. If your screen name is your identity, I appreciate the feedback of one of the better QBs I watched growing up.

That is my identity. lol.. and I appreciate the compliment.

[JGray 60]

In our little area you have 3 age groups in jr. league they all 3 run a different offense and defense and that changes every year because the Daddy's I mean coaches move up with their kids.  Then you get to the middle school and they are running a power I double tights or double wing and the high school is running an air raid spread. I firmly believe that the whole system from high school on down should be running the same o and d or something very close to it.  It also helps if you have a Head coach for more than a 4 year average.

Times have changed and the evolution of the spread offense has taken over if you have the athletes to do it. I know that I'm aging myself but from the time we played with the Chargers, all the way through high school we had a 3 back set and ran the ball to no end. In middle school we ran the wishbone just as the high school did and when we transitioned into high school everything was easier for all of us. The kids at Graham right now, ran a spread offense in pee wee and midget football with the Chargers, so I agree that the system needs to correlate somehow all the way through. "IF POSSIBLE" 

[tornado99 345]

Times have changed and the evolution of the spread offense has taken over if you have the athletes to do it. I know that I'm aging myself but from the time we played with the Chargers, all the way through high school we had a 3 back set and ran the ball to no end. In middle school we ran the wishbone just as the high school did and when we transitioned into high school everything was easier for all of us. The kids at Graham right now, ran a spread offense in pee wee and midget football with the Chargers, so I agree that the system needs to correlate somehow all the way through. "IF POSSIBLE"

I like the explanation. I am assuming the IF POSSIBLE refers to coaching and regime change obstacles. WHAT IF a group of athletes do not match the system in place? Is it better to be consistent year-end, year-out or change intermittently? I agree with the response, just begging the question. I have wondered some years if I-formation would be preferable to spread if a lack of speed in personnel. Of course, I am sure it's better not to sacrifice what's best for the long-term for short-term gain.