Legacy

[Jags52 346]

In the wake of the greatest coach to ever coach college football retiring yesterday with out warning, I have a question for the board to give us something to talk about during the offseason.

if they stepped down tomorrow which current head coach in the area would have the best legacy? Not talking about the legions from years past. This has to be someone who was the head coach last football season. 
 

Being from Alabama myself I need something else to talk about beside Saban stepping down.

[tornado99 345]

Simon, Palmer, Turner, Allen, Crist.

[Gridiron60 2,555]

I know Radford won the state championship this year and well deserved. Crist, his staff, & the players had a phenomenal (perfect) season and worthy of every accolade but I’m not sure Crist has “Legacy” status yet. When I think “Legacy”, I think consistently great teams , playoffs year after year, multiple state appearances, etc.  When you view his time at VH, that’s definitely not “Legacy” worthy. I definitely see Simon, Palmer, Turner on that list though. Allen probably, I just don’t know how long he’s been at Galax and his overall record etc. @sixcatmight can comment on that. 

[sixcat 2,919]

Shane Allen took over as head coach at Galax in 2020/2021 Covid shortened season. 
 

2020 = 9-1 -state runner-up
2021 = 11-3 - state runner-up
2022 = 7-4 - 2nd round of playoffs
2023 = 11-4 - state championship 

His record at Galax is 38-12, a 76% winning percentage. 
 

At Tazewell, Shane was 15-37 in 5 seasons. 
 

2012 = 2-9
2013 = 2-8
2014 = 5-6
2015 = 4-6
2016 = 2-8

53-49 overall record with a state championship and two state runners-up. Sort-of a chicken and egg situation if you ask me. Was he a good coach all along or did he become a good coach working under Mark Dixon for 3 years?

I will say this, Dixon told me himself, the Galax defense between 2017-2019 was entirely Shane’s. Dixon had very little input. 

[Gridiron60 2,555]

32 minutes ago, sixcat said:

Shane Allen took over as head coach at Galax in 2020/2021 Covid shortened season. 
 

2020 = 9-1 -state runner-up
2021 = 11-3 - state runner-up
2022 = 7-4 - 2nd round of playoffs
2023 = 11-4 - state championship 

His record at Galax is 38-12, a 76% winning percentage. 
 

At Tazewell, Shane was 15-37 in 5 seasons. 
 

2012 = 2-9
2013 = 2-8
2014 = 5-6
2015 = 4-6
2016 = 2-8

53-49 overall record with a state championship and two state runners-up. Sort-of a chicken and egg situation if you ask me. Was he a good coach all along or did he become a good coach working under Mark Dixon for 3 years?

I will say this, Dixon told me himself, the Galax defense between 2017-2019 was entirely Shane’s. Dixon had very little input. 

Seems like legacy material , if not for Riverheads, he’d have at least two more championships. 

[tornado99 345]

There is definitely recency bias in my choices, mainly due to lack of options. Crist has had Radford in the playoffs consistently during his tenure prior to the state title. (Based on posts, his influence is arguable, but to the victor goes the spoils.)

I would say the same for Allen. He likely inherited a great program; however, it is very hard to win a state championship.

[cityofRaven 2,444]

16 hours ago, sixcat said:

Shane Allen took over as head coach at Galax in 2020/2021 Covid shortened season. 
 

2020 = 9-1 -state runner-up
2021 = 11-3 - state runner-up
2022 = 7-4 - 2nd round of playoffs
2023 = 11-4 - state championship 

His record at Galax is 38-12, a 76% winning percentage. 
 

At Tazewell, Shane was 15-37 in 5 seasons. 
 

2012 = 2-9
2013 = 2-8
2014 = 5-6
2015 = 4-6
2016 = 2-8

53-49 overall record with a state championship and two state runners-up. Sort-of a chicken and egg situation if you ask me. Was he a good coach all along or did he become a good coach working under Mark Dixon for 3 years?

I will say this, Dixon told me himself, the Galax defense between 2017-2019 was entirely Shane’s. Dixon had very little input. 

So you're saying that Tazewell is the problem...

[sixcat 2,919]

1 hour ago, tornado99 said:

I would say the same for Allen. He likely inherited a great program; however, it is very hard to win a state championship.

Lots of chatter in years past that Allen benefited from Dixon’s players. Winning a state title in year 4 seems to place that logic on its head. 
 

In my opinion, location, location, location applies to athletics as much as it does real estate. Coaches fit some localities better than  others. I think that’s very much the case with Allen in terms of Tazewell and Galax. Our communities in SWVA tend to be quite insular but in different and unique ways. From an outsiders perspective, Tazewell and Galax would seem very similar. But to those of us who have spent decades here, the differences can be glaring. 

[tornado99 345]

2 hours ago, sixcat said:

Lots of chatter in years past that Allen benefited from Dixon’s players. Winning a state title in year 4 seems to place that logic on its head. 
 

In my opinion, location, location, location applies to athletics as much as it does real estate. Coaches fit some localities better than  others. I think that’s very much the case with Allen in terms of Tazewell and Galax. Our communities in SWVA tend to be quite insular but in different and unique ways. From an outsiders perspective, Tazewell and Galax would seem very similar. But to those of us who have spent decades here, the differences can be glaring. 

This^^^^. It applies to both coaching fit and athletic talent that resides in the area.

[Jags52 346]

I’m gonna throw out some dark horses here. I feel like we have named all the obvious ones.

 
Tiller has done a good job everywhere he has been even though he hasn’t stayed long. If you take away the 0-10 season his first year at Fort his teams have been playoff teams every year with a few deep runs just no state hardware to speak of. I’m not sure if Fort was his first head coaching job or not.

Chris Akers has a legacy on this board already but he has done some good things on the field. Playoffs both seasons at Rural Retreat with one win. Gate city was just not the right fit for the guy but still made the playoffs his first year. He was right at 500 at Fort but his best years have been at Holston 26-10 with a region title in 3 years

[tornado99 345]

Honestly, in coaching for a variety of reasons, they just don’t make them like they used to make them. Longevity, and or titles are the way to go. Both would be a lock. In my opinion, without a title due to the difficulty, longevity at a particular place has the most impact. If assistant coaches included, someone like Dennis Palmer certainly fits the bill. Many others who I would normally consider, aren’t mentioned due to either not coaching last year currently. If Harris at Tazewell sticks around for a few years and has some postseason success, I could see him considered in the group evident by Tazewell’s gradual improvement and the effect on the community.

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

We got one over in Giles County that has had a good run. Struggling the past 5 years, but from start to finish, not bad by any means. 

Two things about this thread or points I take away. It's starting to become pretty clear by the evidence that it is tough to win at VA High and Tazewell and I'm not knocking the TTown or Bristol fans. It just is what it is in football. From Paul Wheeler to Burhead Bradley and to Crist, it ain't easy to win at VH. Look at the success those coaches had away from VH. With Tazewell, Allen's record speaks for itself now at Galax.

The above doesn't mean any coach can Never win at Tazewell/VH now or in the future in football, but it does suggest it just ain't easy to win there in football. Baseball is a whole other ballgame for both schools, consistently good for decades.

 

[tornado99 345]

3 hours ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

We got one over in Giles County that has had a good run. Struggling the past 5 years, but from start to finish, not bad by any means. 

Two things about this thread or points I take away. It's starting to become pretty clear by the evidence that it is tough to win at VA High and Tazewell and I'm not knocking the TTown or Bristol fans. It just is what it is in football. From Paul Wheeler to Burhead Bradley and to Crist, it ain't easy to win at VH. Look at the success those coaches had away from VH. With Tazewell, Allen's record speaks for itself now at Galax.

The above doesn't mean any coach can Never win at Tazewell/VH now or in the future in football, but it does suggest it just ain't easy to win there in football. Baseball is a whole other ballgame for both schools, consistently good for decades.

 

Is Williams still coach at Giles? I’m also not familiar with Lowe’s tenure at Narrows, but he seems to do a good job based upon recent seasons compared to enrollment challenges.

Now, traditionally it has been difficult to win at Virginia High and Tazewell since the championship season in 1986. I will say  Tazewell has improved steadily since Harris became coach. Honestly, Tazewell’s biggest challenge currently is being located next to Graham and Richlands prior to Mance’s departure.

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

11 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Is Williams still coach at Giles? I’m also not familiar with Lowe’s tenure at Narrows, but he seems to do a good job based upon recent seasons compared to enrollment challenges.

Now, traditionally it has been difficult to win at Virginia High and Tazewell since the championship season in 1986. I will say  Tazewell has improved steadily since Harris became coach. Honestly, Tazewell’s biggest challenge currently is being located next to Graham and Richlands prior to Mance’s departure.

Williams is still at Giles 

Lowe does a good job but their schedule and district is usually very weak so he gets a bunch of wins that way...but as i said he's done a very good job and he's a good guy as well

[SWVAgridiron 1,469]

1. Simon (Bluefield)

2. Palmer (Graham)

3. Turner (Union)

4. Allen (Galax)

5. Lowe (Narrows)

 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

16 hours ago, SWVAgridiron said:

1. Simon (Bluefield)

2. Palmer (Graham)

3. Turner (Union)

4. Allen (Galax)

5. Lowe (Narrows)

 

Lowe needs some titles to be in legendary status.

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

2 hours ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

Lowe needs some titles to be in legendary status.

At least some regional titles lol

[Gridiron60 2,555]

2 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said:

At least some regional titles lol

Yeah, if you cannot even manage a few regional titles , you might not be legacy status yet, lol! 

[Hokiebird7 1,416]

11 hours ago, Gridiron60 said:

Yeah, if you cannot even manage a few regional titles , you might not be legacy status yet, lol! 

They have plenty of district championships though Haha 

[Hokie Bound 107]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:40 AM, Jags52 said:

I’m gonna throw out some dark horses here. I feel like we have named all the obvious ones.

 
Tiller has done a good job everywhere he has been even though he hasn’t stayed long. If you take away the 0-10 season his first year at Fort his teams have been playoff teams every year with a few deep runs just no state hardware to speak of. I’m not sure if Fort was his first head coaching job or not.

Chris Akers has a legacy on this board already but he has done some good things on the field. Playoffs both seasons at Rural Retreat with one win. Gate city was just not the right fit for the guy but still made the playoffs his first year. He was right at 500 at Fort but his best years have been at Holston 26-10 with a region title in 3 years

Akers stepped into good programs at the right time at both Rural Retreat and Holston. Holston has had a good run of football players over the last 5-7 years. They return the QB and will fall off somewhat this season. Things will get really thin after this upcoming season so if Akers hangs around after this season and wins then he would deserve a lot of credit. I do think he has done a solid job at Holston and should be given credit for that. Holston only had around 25 kids this past fall so a major question will be can Akers get kids to come out for football. 

[Jags52 346]

29 minutes ago, Hokie Bound said:

Akers stepped into good programs at the right time at both Rural Retreat and Holston. Holston has had a good run of football players over the last 5-7 years. They return the QB and will fall off somewhat this season. Things will get really thin after this upcoming season so if Akers hangs around after this season and wins then he would deserve a lot of credit. I do think he has done a solid job at Holston and should be given credit for that. Holston only had around 25 kids this past fall so a major question will be can Akers get kids to come out for football. 

So if the talent is drying up and 3 years seems to be as long as he stays at one place does he make the jump to Lebanon this season for a chance to coach Reese and company?

[tornado99 345]

I don’t personally know Akers, nor his comparison for this post. On field results remind me somewhat of Wyatt (former Tazewell and Pocahontas coach). He seems to have a knack for making bad teams good, but not good teams great. 
 

Just an oversimplification of thought that came to mind. Both have done great jobs with improving teams to a point.

Edited January 18 by tornado99
Wording

[tornado99 345]

The post that started this (Saban) was certainly an old-school coach who has had to adapt to doing things new ways for a new generation to continue success. In the NFL, Belichick could not adapt to life after Tom Brady and new ways of doing things, but it would be tough to argue against the man really knowing defense.

For the current crop of high school coaches, how have they had to adapt from the prior group of legacy coaches? In my suggestions for comparison, Carlock vs Palmer, Travis Turner vs Tom Turner/Phil Robbins, etc.

I imagine the old formula of the past no longer works without tweaks in the absence of amazing talent.

[1inStripes 932]

1 hour ago, Hokie Bound said:

Akers stepped into good programs at the right time at both Rural Retreat and Holston. Holston has had a good run of football players over the last 5-7 years. They return the QB and will fall off somewhat this season. Things will get really thin after this upcoming season so if Akers hangs around after this season and wins then he would deserve a lot of credit. I do think he has done a solid job at Holston and should be given credit for that. Holston only had around 25 kids this past fall so a major question will be can Akers get kids to come out for football. 

Its probably a pay cut moving from being a teacher/coach at Holston than it is to Lebanon though also which is one thing to consider.  Russell County I believe has one of the lower pay rates for teachers and coaching stipends.  I may be mistaken though.

[1inStripes 932]

Sorry meant to quote Jag52 instead of Hokie Bound on that.