It's the dilemma of having so many classes to be fair to the smaller schools without watering down the value of a state title. To be fair, 10 classifications would be better and ensure the smaller schools, and the super large schools for that matter, are classified correctly which doesn't offer a disadvantage or advantage. But, the thought is the more classifications you have, a state title may not mean as much or be valued as much. I like 5 classes personally. I think 4 is not enough and would make it really tough on the small single A schools an 6 is a bit much.
BoBob, I sure do hope your coach (Doug Smith) is ok. Lots of prayers been coming this way for that dude. He's a special coach, but more important, a special person. You guys, like any community would be, are very fortunate to have him. Literally, the man is a game changer and a world changer for so many kids both on and off the field.
Never seen Union play at the Park, but I saw P. Valley play GC there and I saw Appy once at Riggs. Both of those places were rowdy and just an incredible experience and surely intimidating for the visiting team. Same goes with GC when they were good, Legion had a very rowdy and loud fan base and it was tricky because the GC fans sets throughout the stadium/both sides back then. Don't know if they still do.
I remember one time in the mid 80s when Giles ran an upside down pineapple up our arses (Graham) over there in the playoffs. Giles was always an incredible experience and very intimidating for the visiting team. Tazewell in the 80s when they had those great teams was right up there with all of them also. Last of all is the Bluefield Beavers. So many times, it just feels like the visiting teams from central or northern WV when they would play in the playoffs knows its in trouble when the Beavers come on the field. It just feels like an atmosphere of fear for the opponents.
Dillon beat Loris 63-27 after Loris led at the half by a score of 21-14. Dillon of course, is the number one ranked 3A team in S. Carolina and one of the winningest teams on the East Coast the past 25 years.
Bluefield rises to the occasion against Graham and has largely been "in Graham's head" for 100 years. As a Graham fan, it seems like Graham has to be 10 points better than Bluefield to get the W when the two match up. Bluefield in game one was raw, no scrimmages, no nothing, and they played Princeton and many of us are judging them based on that single performance after they also lost a bunch of Div 1 players. Graham lost a bunch, especially on the line of scrimmage and give Graham the same conditions that Bluefield had coming in for game 1 against Princeton, and I think the Beavers certainly wouldn't be picked to lose. I'm a G-Men dude, but I am not sold Graham automatically wins over Bluefield, if the two played in game one. The Beavers are 1 game from being 8-0 on the season. If the Beavers could pull off the W over Parkersburg, they are undefeated in the regular season. The others aren't beating them in the regular season by looking at their schedule.
2010 or 2011, can't remember which one, but the game against Poquoson was a fluke. Richlands was a better team and just wouldn't let itself win with stupid holding calls that killed drives. It seemed like every drive for Richlands was starting out 1st and 20. I think in the game with Poquoson, Richlands really did receive some of the worst calls I've ever seen for a state title game. Literally every time Richlands started to move the ball, there was a hold, and when Richlands stopped them, there was a defensive hold. It reminded me a little bit of Appomattox and Graham in which every time Graham made a big play or even scored, it was called back and a holding penalty would just destroy the drive, and the momentum just crushed. Appo and Graham were about even, but Richlands in my opinion was much better than Poqouson, like 10-12 points better if the two played 10 times with normal officiating.
Plays against Dillon High, a powerhouse and one of the best programs for its size on the East Coast. Dillon is preseason ranked number one in SC again preseason at the 2A level and has played in the state championship game 11 out of 12 years, and winning something like 5 out of the last 8. Size for size, this bunch is one bad outfit. Coach Mance will bring that program up though. Loris has great athletes, but he will playing one of the tougher schedules for a 2A school in South Carolina. Teams like Dillon, Green Sea, South Columbus, NC, Carolina Forest out of Myrtle Beach-Conway, and North Myrtle Beach. It's just an absolutely ridiculous schedule. Year in and year out even at the 2A level and sometimes competing at the 3A level, Dillon is one of the better schools in South Carolina at any level. Loris received honorable mentioned votes in the preseason 2A rankings, but you can expect Loris to lose. In 2016, Dillon beat Loris 37-0, in 2017, it was 39-20, in 2018, it was 47-14, and last year, it was 51-20. Dillon is supposed to return most of it's starters and they beat most teams like the scores you seen above with Loris. If you see a score where Loris is withing 14 or 17 points, or something like 38-21, or 35-21, you can already consider that a major turn around for Mance at Loris High. I used to live in Conway and am familiar some with Myrtle Beach area schools. Loris, even though in Horry County, is about 30 minutes from Cherry Grove-North Myrtle and is a very rural area. They've always had athletes, but their coaching has been pretty bad. Mance has talent at Loris and he will turn it around, but it will take a while due to that ridiculous schedule. It would kind of be like Richlands in those few years where they had Bluefield, Union, Graham, Blacksburg, Lord Botty or William Byrd on the schedule. They literally have 5 juggernouts every year and 3 of the other 5 or so are also tough.
Thanks for the info. I knew Ceredo-Kenova would be in top 10. That was one bad outfit. Also, surprised the Beavers aren't higher, but Capital and Mingo haven't been around to long, and I haven't heard of Clarksburg Victory.
Bluefield Researcher, do you have anything on winning percentage in the state of WV? I'm interested to see where the Beavers would stack up in winning percentage? I'm guessing it's first.
Not sure I'm sold about Va High's talent. I've heard this by many respected fans and friends for years, and I've heard about the culture thing, etc. After 100 years of mediocrity in football, and often less than mediocre, I have a hard time buying the argument that the talent is definitely there and the culture and being one coach away from turning it around is what is needed. After 100 years, the odds are that VA High will have stumbled upon a solid coach or two (at least one), and the odds are the culture would have shifted in some shape or form in a positive way. Cultures shift over 100 years, from everything from pro war, anti war, pro drug, anti drug, pro alcohol, anti alcohol and back, no communism, but socialism ok to some, etc, etc, etc. Going by these odds, I'm not sold the talent at Va High has been what it's made out to be by some. I can buy the culture argument as an influence, but I think the talent argument is also in play.
Mitchell Stadium, the home of the Bluefield Beavers and the home of the Graham G-Men. In the picture, you are also looking at two states. Mostly West Virginia in the photo, but far to the right and up top would be the state of Virginia.
Point being, we should have played football this fall even if we limited attendance & only district games. I have nothing for VHSL & Billy Haun at this point.
The VHSL is completely controlled by the state administration. The decision or answer of YES or NO for football in the fall has already been decided for them, and decided ABOVE them.
Let's say all VHSL members were in 100% agreement for playing this fall, and let's say that all of them were very aggressive and nearly campaigning to play in public. You do realize the Governor, with one quick stroke can say, "no play" and that's all it takes. Therefore, FORGET about VHSL rumors, meetings, or what each of them personally feel or want to do, etc. The governor loves politics and he will do his best to insert ANY possible negative light that he could shine on the opposing party.
Not a mention of the 1997 Graham team? That's the biggest what if.....Jeremy Gibson never gets hurt. That team easily could've won Div 3 that year. That injury changed Graham and cleared the path for Gate City's 1997 team. Would have loved to saw that team against PV or Appy.
Agree CPF the 97 Graham team would have been a threat and was a great team, but I don't think a slam dunk likely or probable winner or favorite. When I mentioned 1978, 1981, 1990, 1993, 2001, and 2003, I'm giving the opinion that Graham very likely, the favorites, to win a state title if they were playing at their should be classification of play. With PV and GC and even Appy in 97, certainly far from a "likely" title. PV (D2), GC-D3, and Appy (D1) were ridiculously good and I don't see Graham being set apart from those 3 beasts of 97 mentioned above. GC did beat Graham (after Gibson's injury) and PV and Appy beat GC. All 3 state champs that year. But for the other years I mentioned, yes, I think Graham playing Single A or A in 78 and 81, and playing Div 2, AA, in 90, 93, 01, and 03 would have led to rings on the overwhelming majority of those years
In the conversation or having a chance...74, 84, 97, 95. 1995, state champs, but I write in the conversation because if Graham were Div 2 that year, P. Valley would have been favored for sure.
Remember it well. Was at the first one, working in Richlands at the time and made the quick drive down to Nelson and set with Cary and JK Perkins and Roby Minton (J.K. I played against, all three in town for the weekend, and Roby a former Graham/Falls Mills kid I went to grade school with before he moved/later played for Grundy). Had to work during the playoff game.
Would like to see the WVSACC mandate masks as mandatory for all in attendance. It only takes one outbreak and the risk for cancelled games goes up. If I were a Head Coach, AD, School Official, Mayor, etc., I would push hard for my fans to mask up. Whatever I could do to decrease the chances of my season being further shortened, I would do it.
GC was tough in 2003, but I like Graham. Both played Tazewell and Richlands, and Graham came out barely ahead on scoring margin. By the state semis, I would take a senior Bradshaw over GC due to schedule. The only good teams (that we're good on 2003) that GC played in the regular season was P. Valley and Richlands. Graham played Bluefield, Blacksburg, GW. Dsnville, Richlands, Salem, and a pretty good Grundy team that went to the Div 3 state semis the year before. I think that schedule would have prepared Graham well against GC or Essex.
But again, if anything, Graham and GC should have had flipped rolls. GC had more students.
As many on here have said, they probably end up with the same number of titles, so I guess ts really a moot point. Its just always been something I was curious about.
With respect to those who hold a different opinion, I'm not one saying they end up with the same amount of titles. Like I wrote, I think Graham in 1978, 1981, 1990, 1993, 2001, and 2003 win state titles, and they would have been in the mix in 1974 and 1984. I think they would have lost to PV in 1995. So, in my opinion only, I think they would have very likely had 5 more state titles to their resume. Multiple examples given in the thread, for example, Graham 1993. Giles win Div 2 state title and goes 14-0. Closest games are Haysi and BBurg with Giles winning by a touchdown in both. Graham in 1993 throttled Blacksburg 26-14, but a game that was 26-0 at one point and Blacksburg had a last minute score to make it 13-14 points. Graham lost to an All American led Jefferson Forest team in Anthony Poindexter in a very competitive game in the semi's.
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VHSL denies Giles bid to move down a classification.
in SWVA Football
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It's the dilemma of having so many classes to be fair to the smaller schools without watering down the value of a state title. To be fair, 10 classifications would be better and ensure the smaller schools, and the super large schools for that matter, are classified correctly which doesn't offer a disadvantage or advantage. But, the thought is the more classifications you have, a state title may not mean as much or be valued as much. I like 5 classes personally. I think 4 is not enough and would make it really tough on the small single A schools an 6 is a bit much.