Botty-tot only had around 30 players with them at the scrimmage with Dobyns-Bennett. I'm sure they probably have more than that in their program, but that was all they brought down to E&H. I was also surprised at Belfry's numbers, which I counted as 37 at Richlands last Friday.
Belfry has had a few transfers here and there but, I suspect the lack of "traveling" numbers could be attributed to risk mitigation. Why bring 25-30 more kids that won't play but a couple of snaps, when all of those have just as good of a chance as every other player at contracting Covid and shutting your program down for 10 days this close to the season. I've been wrong before, but numbers have not been an issue on Pond Creek in a very, very long time.
Man, I hate to hear that. I was just telling a comrade that was assigned to it how great of a jamboree it is to work. Why the cancellation? I feel bad for the team’s scheduled to come because I’m sure finding a replacement on this short of a notice is a challenge.
I refereed for nearly 20 years (mostly outside of Virginia). When I did come back to this area, the closest game I had to Galax was Abingdon. It's tough to justify spending 8 hours every Friday night away from your toddler and newborn when the money often didn't cover the expense of the travel required. The only sense I could make from being sent to Russell County or Dickenson County from Galax every week was, they didn't want or need my services! So I began to invest more time in my golf game.
I get the same gratification from playing golf with the juniors in this region without enduring any of the stupidity from the "experts" in attendance.
Mad props to you and your experience. It doesn't hurt to be "centrally" located in this region in regards to travel, however, I totally understand your point. I too, also volunteer A TON of my time to junior golf in this area ironically. I can attest you do get the same gratification from that.
Let me play devils advocate if you will, suppose there are not enough officials to cover all of the games on a Friday night, and we do have to run 4 man crews at some sites. How do you think folks would react to seeing who got 4 vs 5? The idea of "rotating" schools that got 4 instead of 5 one week would not work. I can tell you where the 5's will be assigned more than likely. Or would you rather play your game at 10 am on a Saturday to have 5? Or should we just do away with officiating as a whole and let coaches do it? As you can see the simplest answer is to add more officials to your pool, because if you do not, it opens a whole pandora's box of possibilities.
Yeah can't blame anyone for not being a ref...who would wanna listen to that mess every game every year?
Honestly, it takes a very special interpersonal skillset to do the job. Are we underpaid in comparison with the rest of the state and surrounding states? Yes, however I average $25-30 an hour when I'm on field. That is not bad money no matter what you're doing, especially if it is something you enjoy. Travel? Pfft, unless it is to Ewing or Galax, it's a walk in the park. The abuse, mehh. I do not pay one iota of attention to any spectators comment. I do it because of the relationships I've made, the opportunity to always be improving at the craft and my people skills, and giving back to sports that I owe so much to for making me the person I am today off the field. I truly enjoy being around the game, the student athletes we serve, and the coaches. I get that it is not for everyone, but there sure seem to be some rules aficionados during the season on this board so I thought I'd place my help wanted plug here 😂
What will become very interesting this year is how many games get moved to Saturdays, or deal with 4 man crews from officials.
THIS^^^^^
Guys, the officiating shortage is REAL in SWVA. We need bodies, point blank. Our association has been aging for a long time now, and we are finally starting to see a rapid decline in participation due to a number of factors but, mostly that fall off can be attributed to the average age in the AFOA. To 1iS's point, I do not foresee 4 man crews as much as I do as shifting dates to Thursdays or Saturdays. I also foresee a lot of ibuprofen, Biofreeze and Gold Bond foot powder to be sold if crews have to cover up to 2 varsity games a week, along with sub-varsity.
Well, Bluefield College is allowed 30% capacity at Mitchell Stadium under Governor’s order but yet Graham is allowed 250 in the same stadium.
If Bluefield College ever turned out 250 to one of their games, it'd would be a team record. I've done some of their games and swear I've counted no more than 80 at any of them.
Is the penalty loss of yardage or and an ejection in high school?
Only a 15 yard penalty unless deemed to be flagrant. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't flagrant but, it is contact initiated to the head and neck area by the defender. The camera angle is sketchy at best. To the covering official's defense, as someone said before, in real time with two great athletes, you get about a .3 second view at it. The umpire seems to have a view of it too. We're conditioned to err on the side of caution with these fouls in the name of player safety. I'd imagine (or hope) that there was a conversation between the crew about whether or not it was flagrant.
Unrelated side note: I remember why I gave up Facebook years ago. That comment section is littered with absolute disinformation. That's all I have to say about that(in Forrest Gump's voice).
Yes.
But for it to be overturned, the head official and the principal from both schools has to agree to overturn it.
It’s very rare.
Actually, it's the commissioner of the representing officials association, and both principals in a fighting or misconduct situation.It must be a unanimous decision between those 3 parties either way.
However, we're simply required to submit the game report with the ejection noted. In a targeting situation, the guideline is it MUST be flagrant per the NFHS rule book to result in a disqualification. There is no subsequent suspension either for targeting, just the remainder of the contest.
Tonight at the Galax vs FC game. Galax ran a play that ended up being close enough to a first down to measure. Instead of moving the chains to midfield to measure. The official picked up the ball and carried it to the sideline to measure. I have never seen this in all my years watching football. Has anyone else?
This is cringe worthy stuff. There's the right way to do things, and the wrong way. This is not the right way.
Here you go 1inStripes. Refs should be paid more than coaches.
I like how you quote only the part to support your argument and take my statement completely out of context. I truly hope you enjoyed whatever game you attended tonight, and the officiating was up to your high standards. See 1instripes replies above because I could not say it any better.
But just for craps and laughs, I kept up for my compensation for you tonight. I left my job on the southern end of our territory at 4:00, and I arrived on site at around 6:20. As a crew, we had a pregame discussion and dressed to be on the field at 7:00 for a 7:30 kick. We were off the field at 9:38, and I got in my vehicle, at 10:01. By the time I made into traffic it was 10:10. I made one stop for a cup of coffee and arrived at my home at 12:06. We’ll call it 8 hours. So that’s $10 an hour roughly. Now take into account I spent $30 on fuel, and $6.83 at a Subway on the way to eat something semi-healthy. Luckily the site I was at takes very good care of officials and we could have anything we wanted at halftime from the concession stand. However, with the nature of the job, I chose not to partake and only have 2 bottles of water. So I’m at $44.17, after what most would consider necessary expenses to perform my duties, I’m at $5.52 an hour.
I’m not complaining because I love what I do. The atmosphere, the players, the coaches, and the guys I work with week in and week out. I am just trying to make you see the vast majority of us are not in it for the money, but to go back to your original statement that we’re overpaid is the most disrespectful thing I’ve ever had said to me in my brief time as an official.
I am finished with this discussion as I get to have roughly 4 hours of sleep (after I wait for my washing machine to cycle so I can put my gear in the dryer) before I am up and on the road to a college site I report to for a 1:00 kickoff tomorrow a couple of area codes away.
Per hour officials make more than anyone else associated with a high school game. How about comparing your pay per hour with a coach, cheerleading sponsor, clock operator, any newspaper covering the game or the radio people. This poor official bit has gotten really old and our local association runs it in the ground.
For good reason too. Coaches don’t have to retain all of the rules like we do. We get asked every game by them about a ruling, or a clarification. We have to do this while being yelled at while being screamed at by the very coach you are trying to help.
We’re also ultimately responsible for the safety of the players at all times when on the field. In today’s litigious society, we are accepting a lot of risk if the worst happens and are at fault. I understand we get what seems to be an absolute astronomical amount to you, but based on your comments, you have absolutely no idea the time commitment involved that we do not get paid for and we get that fee once a week. It’s not every day. This isn’t just a local issue either. There’s a national shortage of us. That’s means we are in demand. If numbers around here do not improve over the next 10 years, we simply will not have enough to cover our area games.
A simple solution would be to expand to 7 man crews so that we can have more eyes on the field. Guess why we can’t? What’s your solution? If the money is so great, come on out and join us please. We’d love to have you.
FWIW, at my day job I do get mileage, and a clothing allowance. The time away from my family is expected, but still compensated for fairly.
This stuff always cracks me up. Officials are highly compensated and most of the games they officiate aren’t close. God forbid anyone ask a trained official that’s making in excess of $25/hr to properly know the rules. Give me a break....
Highly compensated huh? Are you taking into account travel expenses, time away from our day jobs and families, association fees, uniforms? It all adds up. I’ve accepted the criticism, harsh comments and wacky schedule from day 1 and embrace it for what it is. We do it because we love the game. The rule book reads like a legal document. Some work harder than others to grasp it and in the heat of the moment, we’re asked to recall something in our brain verbatim. Even the D-1 guys get tangled up, so give us the break instead.
For what it's worth, the video coverage is spectacular for a high school game. Believe it or not, as an association, we can not always get film from coaches when we ask for it to review our performance during games. If more schools did this, you'd see the level of officiating definitely improve.
Disclaimer: I am not familiar with any of this crew and I was not a part of this crew. I was in Saltville. Here's something to ponder on. Every time we take the field on a Friday in the regular season, we have 5 sets of eyes watching 22 players, plus benches, coaches, parents, volunteers, and the clock. The perfect game has not been officiated yet at any level. We get one look at everything from field level and it is expected to be called perfectly and most of the time, the biggest critics do not have a clue of the actual rule they're questioning. I know I miss something EVERY game. So please, do not assign blame to any official, 99% of us do the best job we can for the game we are assigned. If anyone thinks they are more qualified, just let me know and I will let you know how to get on the field and help us out next season.
Can't argue blindside hits, leading with crown, deliberate cheap shots, but it's got to the point you can't tackle hard or just make a good lick. That being said, hard for a back or defender to lower shoulder without the head, just gotta keep eyes up, easier said than done.
True, this is where I use preventative officiating if it is borderline. Usually I just remind the player, see what you're hitting and assure them I am just looking out for their well being. I am seeing fewer of these in the course of actual play at all levels, and the game is getting safer in my opinion. I get what you're saying, but I cringe when I see any of them lead with the crown. I do not like to call them because it is soooooo subjective. Out of the other side of my mouth, I like to err on the side of caution and if it's close go ahead and throw it if it's close.
The best I can find, targeting in and of itself is a 15 yard penalty only unless it is deemed flagrant. At that point a player can be "disqualified" from the game. Apparently, "ejection" is not a term that is used in NFHS rules.
Anywho, a player that has been disqualified is also disqualified for the next contest unless the disqualification is for fighting. That produces a 2 game disqualification unless reversed on appeal.
Correct. Common misunderstanding made by fans AND players is they think targeting in HS results in ejection. We do not have the benefit of replay (yet, and man I dread when we do, only because of how long games would drag) so targeting is penalized the same as any other live ball personal foul. We do our best to use preventative officiating to address these fouls. I've called 3 at the HS level, two on obvious ear holes on the sideline, and one on a back who lowered his head to use the crown of his helmet to plow a DB when he was obviously going OB. It's going to have to have to be obvious to 5 visually impaired people in the top row for most of us to call it flagrant. What I ask myself is "Was this hit truly avoidable?"
The only usual DQ's at this level are for fighting and earning two unsportsmanlike fouls in the same game.
Shew, after reading this I am more relieved than ever to have gotten pulled off of a game involving a KY team as a wing official in a few weeks and making my debut as a white hat with a piece meal crew. It's no fun to have an out of state sideline in our coverage area. I will normally stand up for my fellow zebras, However, I've seen film from games in WV and KY that make me CRINGEEEEEE. God bless y'll.
I read this in the voice of the radio spot. Beautiful stuff man, I know it took some time and creativity to put it together. I'll be looking forward to this from now on.
Don't sleep on GW Clisso's restaurant at the Country Club, and you do not have to be a member to eat there. It's very reasonably priced and the food is outstanding. I've never had anything but a great experience there. Usually on Friday and Saturday night he has a buffet and salad bar along with menu items available. He has a line of salad dressings that are available locally that are AMAZING. If my crew was going to be in BSG, that's where I'd plan our pre-game meal would be.
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Week 1 updates
in SWVA Football
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Pikeville is what I am hearing. They're paying $3000 and offering to feed a team if they can get a game on Saturday.