Hurley in US Today...

[cityofRaven 2,453]

And here we go...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2015/08/20/confederate-flag-hurley-high-school-virginia/32064685/

 

[EH31 2,533]

Now this will be national issue when it was never a local issue.

[redtiger 1,742]

Pretty good read but im afraid now Hurley will be descended upon by idiots trying to make this an issue. I did feel that the writer equating the beliefs/actions/bullshit of Trump with the people of Hurley was in an attempt to make them look foolish. The young man with the rebel flag tattoed on his forearm may be about to get judged by a lot of people who dont understand him or the feelings of people in Hurley/SWVA/Central Appalachia

[Bigrhsfan 884]

Well said Redtiger, and your probably right.

 Now people that really could care less about that young man and only care about showing their mug on TV or being quoted in a paper or magazine will descend on Hurly and this area to make a big issue out of this.

People that are not from around here already think that we are all a bunch of redneck, inbred, none educated idiots already..........don't believe me,  watch just about any show or movie about people in Appalachians and see how they make us look.   Maybe not all,  but most.

Now someone will think they need to swoop in and save the poor ole people of the mountains from ourselves...........ohhhhhhh,  it just burns my a__.

The kid seemed to be just fine with it and was proud enough of it to have it tattooed on his arm.  I guess I better shut up before I say something I shouldn't. 

[cwood78 161]

Now,,, the snowball starts getting bigger,, ABC news is on board..

[cwood78 161]

Washington post as well..

[cwood78 161]

This can only ..

Show a negative light on a community..

That wants to be left alone..

[Rod Johnson 95]

This can only ..

Show a negative light on a community..

That wants to be left alone..

 

I could be WAY off on this, but I think after some initial scuttlebutt, the media and SJW's will back off pretty quickly. Not a big enough target for them.

[redtiger 1,742]

lets hope not vaprepsrod(for short is it rod or vapreps?) but a small community makes an easy target and it wouldnt be hard to make the situation appear much larger than it is

 

I personally volunteer to lead the Haysi counter protest group if it comes to that

[cwood78 161]

hey, hey there tiger,,,,let's not forget......we  represent  Dickenson county,  ,not  Clintwood ,not  haysi, not  ervinton.......ERVINTON>>>>REBELS......hmmm....boy the s----t would fly if  USA< ABC.... come to our county.....

[trumpet1988 289]

This is only an issue because some murderer shot up a few people at church.

 

Now another thing for people to laugh at us about. And certain people I know are going to jump at the chance to act like they care about something that wasn't an issue to them before.

 

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Leave the flag alone.

[Beamerball 566]

Just send some of them on these winding roads and end up in a back hollow or up in one of these mountains near KY/W, I'm sure they'll have enough of this area pretty quickly.

[redtiger 1,742]

hey, hey there tiger,,,,let's not forget......we  represent  Dickenson county,  ,not  Clintwood ,not  haysi, not  ervinton.......ERVINTON>>>>REBELS......hmmm....boy the s----t would fly if  USA< ABC.... come to our county.....

I said Haysi because of the Haysi/Hurley BDD connection but Hurley has the whole WOLFPACK behind them!

 

Just send some of them on these winding roads and end up in a back hollow or up in one of these mountains near KY/W, I'm sure they'll have enough of this area pretty quickly.

Just ask Altavista and Covington about that lol

[VHSLhelper 571]

uh-oh... thing's ae getting SIRI-us now! Ol' Cooter's comin' down.! 

[redtiger 1,742]

similar situation     https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/julianne-moore-wants-to-rename-her-high-school-194849672.html 

[sixcat 2,942]

I don't pretend to like or be comfortable with the confederate flag, given it's history.  Not the invented history we read about on social media but it's actual history.  I am not going to get into that here!  My concern is, and has been since this all started, where does it end?  Is Patrick County going to change its county seat from the Town of Stuart to something nobody recognizes?  Is Staunton going to change the name of it's high school?

 

We can try to run away from our past to show how "evolved" we are today but it doesn't change who we were and in many cases, still are, as a nation.  Christians demand from non-christians what they would never tolerate in reverse fashion.  Minorities demand from the majority what they would never tolerate themselves.  No american alive today has ever been held in human bondage or persecuted for their beliefs.  Toughen up, get some thicker skin, and deal with it.  The world doesn't owe the Julianne Moore's a damn thing!

[EH31 2,533]

Am I the only one that has seen many West VA residents flying the confederate flag because it's "heritage, not hate?" Im really not sure that even 5% of Americans fully understand the history of the secession of the southern states and the symbolisms used during the Civil War.

[VHSLhelper 571]

Sixcat - I was telling Lloyd the same thing, along with Lee County, Bedford, Patrick, Henry, etc.  There has to be a line, and I think it should be around the flag and nothing else.

 

EH31 - Only the 'Libertards" know the truth - so many on the right will only believe what they already believe - it's like they don't want to know the truth. I've seen it so much this Summer with the "selling murdered baby parts" (I WILL give them credit for being able to combine 3 lies into just 4 words) and 'the video doesn't lie" and so many flag things. The thing that gets me is that NOBODY talks about the Dixiecrats role 50-60 years ago, or when/why SC raised the flag, or how people can/did change their views, or that Lee told someone afterwards to furl up the flag. Nor will they accept that slavery was the states rights thing they're saying was the cause, and how the South was actually fighting AGAINST states rights.

 

I like the idea of using the flag "for good", but it's just too soon, as a lot of those folks who see the flag as hate are still alive, and there are so many ppl. now who will turn anything into 'it's odumbo's fault/doing'.

[parsons 178]

Those ignoring the truth about the cause for which that flag was used in battle are just as blind to the truth as the citizens in Ferguson that attempt to turn Michael Brown into a murder victim.

[sixcat 2,942]

Sixcat - I was telling Lloyd the same thing, along with Lee County, Bedford, Patrick, Henry, etc.  There has to be a line, and I think it should be around the flag and nothing else.

 

EH31 - Only the 'Libertards" know the truth - so many on the right will only believe what they already believe - it's like they don't want to know the truth. I've seen it so much this Summer with the "selling murdered baby parts" (I WILL give them credit for being able to combine 3 lies into just 4 words) and 'the video doesn't lie" and so many flag things. The thing that gets me is that NOBODY talks about the Dixiecrats role 50-60 years ago, or when/why SC raised the flag, or how people can/did change their views, or that Lee told someone afterwards to furl up the flag. Nor will they accept that slavery was the states rights thing they're saying was the cause, and how the South was actually fighting AGAINST states rights.

 

I like the idea of using the flag "for good", but it's just too soon, as a lot of those folks who see the flag as hate are still alive, and there are so many ppl. now who will turn anything into 'it's odumbo's fault/doing'.

Yep!

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I've found it hard over the years to discuss the Civil War.  On the one hand, there's literally limitless amounts of information that need to be absorbed for someone to give a well-reasoned take on the subject.  On the other hand, it deserves the most sincere amount of reverence in each and every detail.  In short, it's often too monumental a task and too easy to be incomplete.

 

In discussing the Civil War, as with other historical events that did not happen in our lifetime, we have to look through the lens of history.  We have some contemporary accounts of the War to guide our perceptions, but the victors write the history, and for me it leaves much to be desired in terms of a holistic account.  Despite the existence of a few octogenarians who may be able to relate stories told by their octogenarian grandparents/great-grandparents, 99% of those people who have heard firsthand accounts are long since gone.  So we're left to infer what has happened.

 

To say that "the Civil War was all about slavery" is far too narrow a generalization.  There existed, from revolutionary times, a stark cultural divide between the industrial North and the agrarian South.  The North in part relied on workers paid no more than life's bare necessities by powerful monopolists, while the South in part relied in on slaves given no more than life's bare necessities by powerful plantation owners.  Before the age of government entitlement, the only meaningful differences between the Northern lower class and the Southern slaves was personal liberty.  How much personal liberty can exist when the only other alternative of work is death?  The South empowered formal ownership of human beings, while the North empowered virtual ownership of its lower class.  But that literal ownership served as the flash point for browbeating the South.  

 

And when I say "browbeating the South", keep in mind that barely half of southern landowners (read: by no means all men) owned slaves, and of those who did, 90% owned 3 or fewer.  More often than not, the landowners were in the field toiling every bit as hard as their slaves.  The image of a plantation owner looking like Harlan Sanders, sipping mint juleps at a house that looks like J.R. Ewing's, while his children beat his slaves mercilessly is fanciful dreaming for 99% of southern landowners (again read: by no means all men).  

 

Slavery was evil.  Pure evil.  Human beings are not property.  But by the same token, perspective should be kept.

 

The northern federal government actively undermined the south for the 70 years that preceded the Civil War.  It's not coincidental that the North retained the commercial industry while expecting the South to provide its food.  It allowed the North to dominate trade (Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, D.C.), while the South had little more than a port in Charleston.  It's not coincidental that the Missouri Compromise was allowed to be drawn at a level that was 2/3 south of the current U.S. territories.  It's not coincidental that the federal government displaced the Indian nations to a territory in the South, and refused to grant it statehood despite repeated requests.  It's not coincidental that the federal government started ushering through northern states in the 1850s like it was going out of style.  It was far less than overt, and the South decided to form a separate Union.

 

As for the flag itself, the ONLY flag that bears a reasonable resemblance to the modern "Confederate Flag" is the rectangular Second Confederate Navy Jack, which was based on the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag.  All other flags were amalgamations of designs, most of which ended up looking humorously like the U.S. flag.  I would love...LOVE...to take a random cross-section of 10 inner-city residents, show them the Bonnie Blue flag, and ask them what it stands for.  How many of them would guess anything to do with the Confederacy?  2?  1?  Probably 0.  That was the original "Confederate Flag", the first battle flag.

 

Needless to say, the ignorance of the Civil War is stupendous.  Not unforgivable, but stupendous.  But the number of people who act like experts when history clearly tells opposite is staggering and disappointing.  Many of them fall into the SJW crowd.

[bucfan64 309]

Sadly enough, the D.O.E. will probably be brought into this and the front doors of HHS will get a new paint job. The reason that I say, sadly enough, is due to the fact that this was a non issue in this community and surrounding area, but thanks to a liberal agenda it will become national news.

 

I personally have never been fond of the Rebel Battle flag, but for this to be considered an issue only goes to prove that issues can be manufactured. This is a manufactured issue and those who manufacture it will be the victors.

 

I stand with HHS and the good people of Hurley who have in my opinion stood their ground and done so in a polite and cordial manner. I urge outsiders to not agitate them into action.

 

If there is any doubt as to how this story is being manipulated consider the recent headlines concerning the Roanoke shooting and how the White House and certain politicians are responding.

 

---South Carolina Shooter, a racist,  kills 9 innocent people. He is photographed with a Rebel Battle Flag and the media immediately jumps on the "We have a race problem in America," bandwagon. (I am in no way suggesting that we do or do not have a race problem, just making an observation)

 

---- Roanoke, Virginia shooter, a racist, kills two innocent people, writes a 23 page manifesto stating his desire to cause or continue a "race war," and the White House and certain politicians, suggest that we have a "gun problem!"

 

The media, the White House and all politicians have a habit of controlling the narrative to fit their agenda or cause. It is a shame, that both incidents mentioned above, are treated differently, when clearly both are race issues. But, due to the fact that each incident helps serve a different agenda, based solely on the color of the perpetrator, we the people are being fed a false narrative.

 

Sad indeed................

[parsons 178]

In discussing the Civil War, as with other historical events that did not happen in our lifetime, we have to look through the lens of history.  We have some contemporary accounts of the War to guide our perceptions, but the victors write the history, and for me it leaves much to be desired in terms of a holistic account.  Despite the existence of a few octogenarians who may be able to relate stories told by their octogenarian grandparents/great-grandparents, 99% of those people who have heard firsthand accounts are long since gone.  So we're left to infer what has happened.

 

To say that "the Civil War was all about slavery" is far too narrow a generalization.......  But the number of people who act like experts when history clearly tells opposite is staggering and disappointing. 

Nothing has to be inferred or interpreted.  The southern states didn't hide their reasons for seceding.  They were blunt and to the point. The Confederacy was established to preserve the institution of slavery . The proof is matter of a public record.  All you have to do is read speeches from the secession conventions and the actual secession declarations.

 

Henry Benning, Commissioner from Georgia sent to the Virginia Convention:

 â€œI have been appointed by the Convention of the State of Georgia, to present to this Convention, the ordinance of secession of Georgia, and further, to invite Virginia, through this Convention ' to join Georgia and the other seceded States in the formation of a Southern Confederacy. This, sir, is the whole extent of my mission. 1 have no power to make promises, none to receive promises; no power to bind at all in any respect. But still, sir, it has seemed to me that a proper respect for this Convention requires that I should with some fulness and particularity, exhibit before the Convention the reasons which have induced Georgia to take that important step of secession, and then to lay before the Convention some facts and considerations in favor of the acceptance of the invitation by Virginia. With your permission then, sit, I will pursue this course.

What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery.â€

 

George Williamson, Commissioner from Louisiana to the Texas Secession Convention:

“I have the honor to address you as the commissioner of the people of Louisiana, accredited to your honorable body. â€¦..the people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy. If she remains in the union the abolitionists would continue their work of incendiarism and murder…………. The people of the slaveholding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery. …. I am authorized to say to your honorable body that Louisiana does not expect any beneficial result from the peace conference now assembled at Washington. She is unwilling that her action should depend on the border States. Her interests are identical with Texas and the seceding States. With them she will at present co-operate, hoping and believing in his own good time God will awaken the people of the border States to the vanity of asking for, or depending upon, guarantees or compromises wrung from a people whose consciences are too sublimated to be bound by that sacred compact, the constitution of the late United States. That constitution the Southern States have never violated, and taking it as the basis of our new government we hope to form a slave-holding confederacy that will secure to us and our remotest posterity the great blessings its authors designed in the Federal Union. With the social balance wheel of slavery to regulate its machinery, we may fondly indulge the hope that our Southern government will be perpetual.â€

 

John Preston, Commissioner from South Carolina to the Virginia Convention:

“I have had the honor to present you, sir, and this Convention my credentials, as Commissioner from the Government of South Carolina, and, upon your reception of these credentials, I am instructed by my Government to lay before you the causes which induced the State of South Carolina to withdraw from the Union, and the people of South Carolina to resume the powers which they had delegated to the Government of the United States of America.

This, gentlemen, brings me directly to the causes which I desire to lay before you. For fully thirty years or more, the people of the Northern States have assailed the institution of African slavery. They have assailed African slavery in every form in which, by our contiguity of territory and our political alliance with them, they have been permitted to approach it.

During that period of thirty years, large masses of their people have associated themselves together for the purpose of abolishing the institution of African slavery, and means, the most fearful were suggested to the subject race-rising and murdering their masters being the charities of those means. In pursuance of this idea, their representatives in the federal government have endeavored by all the means that they could bring to bear, so to shape the legislation as almost to limit, to restrict, to restrain the slaveholding States from any political interest in the accretion of the government. So that as my distinguished colleague [judge Benning], stated to you on yesterday, the decree goes forth that there are to be no more slave States admitted into the Union.

Secondly, then, in pursuance of the same purpose that I have indicated, a large majority of the States of the Confederation have refused to carry out those provisions of the Constitution which are absolutely necessary to the existence of the slave States, and many of them have stringent laws to prevent the execution of those provisions; and eight of these States have made it criminal, even in their citizens to execute these provisions of the Constitution of the United States, which, by the progress of the government, have become now necessary to the protection of an industry which furnishes to the commerce of the Republic $250,000,000 per annum, and on which the very existence of twelve millions of people depends. In not one of these seventeen States can a citizen of one of the fifteen States claim his main property, and in many of them the persons of the citizens of these States have been violated, and in numerous cases the violence has resulted in murder.

Third. The citizens of not less than five of our confederates of the North have invaded the territory of their confederates of the slaveholding States, and proclaimed the intention of abolishing slavery by the annihilation of the slaveholders; and two of these States have refused to surrender the convicted felons to the demand of the invaded States; and one of these-one of the most influential-one, perhaps, recognized as the representative of what is called American sentiment and civilization, has, in its highest solemn form, approved of that invasion; and numbers of people, scattered throughout the whole extent of these seventeen States, have made votive offerings to the memory of the invaders.

Fourth. The most populous, and by far, the most potent of our late confederates, has for years proclaimed, through the federal legislature and by her own sovereign act, that the conflict between slavery and non-slavery is a conflict for life and death. Now, there is the calm, oft-reiterated decree of a State containing three millions of people, conducting four-fifths of the commerce of the Republic, with additional millions diffused through the whole of these 17 States. And many of these States themselves have decreed that the institution of slavery is an offence to God, and, therefore, they are bound by the most sacred attributes which belong to human nature, to exterminate it. They have declared, in their most solemn form, that the institution of slavery, as it exists in the States of their political confederates, is an offence to their social institutions, and, therefore, that it should be exterminated. Finally, acting upon the impulse of their duties of self-protection and self-preservation, majorities, large majorities throughout the whole of these 17 States have placed the executive power of the Federal Government in the hands of those who are bound by the most sacred obligations, by their obligations to God, by their obligations to the social institutions of man, by their obligations of self-protection and self-preservation, to place the system of slavery as it exists in the Southern States upon a course of certain and final extinction. Twenty millions of people, having in their hands one of the strongest Governments on earth, and impelled by a perfect recognition of the most powerful obligations which fall upon man, have declared that the vital interests of eight millions of people shall be exterminated. In other words, the decree, the result of this cumulation which I have endeavored to show you, was inaugurated on the 6th of November last, so far as the institution of slavery is concerned, in the confederates of the Northern non-slaveholding States. That decree is annihilation, and you can make nothing shorter of it."

[redtiger 1,742]

The southern states desire to retain the institution of salavery came from their belief that it was their right to keep slavery legal, I.e. states rights. It's all in how you cut it.

 

Personally I(and MANY others) identify with the 90% of the CSA military that went to war to protect their homes from an invading army (I will admit that's painting things broadly).

[VHSLhelper 571]

What REALLY got my goat was that they 'happened' to publish the story in the paper that would be on sale all weekend while NASCAR was in Bristol.