BandanaVTDavis4321

Prayers lifted for Coach Smith.  His skill has been shown time and time again on the gridiron.  His Christian walk has left larger footprints than any trophy a case could hold. 
Excerpts from a message by my pastor...  
"The Battle Your In"
God will give Coach the courage to stand (2 Tim. 1:7)
God will give Coach the power to fight (1st John 4:4)
Grace is prepared for tomorrow, but is sufficient for today.
  
 

Just looked that up.  Correct TruBlue, Dillon back to 3 A for a few years now.  Has been 2A and 3A, bounced up and down some over the years.  

This team made me want to be a Viking!! I have so many great memories from those years living in Big Stone Gap. Great article. Tim hayes does a great job!

Another excellent article by Tim Hayes...
https://heraldcourier.com/sports/history-with-hayes-the-1985-powell-valley-vikings-had-muscle-guts-toughness-and-a-group/article_fcb82d5c-0051-11eb-aca8-0f015c30097d.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_heraldcourier&fbclid=IwAR11Vogh4Qcjxs6mMC1pculjgkeOBK91uBtItElen43NEf_6lDGad8KGmL8

We will never know.  Im looking forward to that Graham - Tazewell matchup in the spring.  Hope it happens. 

Bluefield benefited tremendously by not having to play Lord Botetourt, Graham, Richlands and Tazewell.  Those would have all been good opponents for Bluefield this season.

Plays against Dillon High, a powerhouse and one of the best programs for its size on the East Coast.  Dillon is preseason ranked number one in SC again preseason at the 2A level and has played in the state championship game 11 out of 12 years, and winning something like 5 out of the last 8.  Size for size, this bunch is one bad outfit.  Coach Mance will bring that program up though.  Loris has great athletes, but he will playing one of the tougher schedules for a 2A school in South Carolina.  Teams like Dillon, Green Sea,  South Columbus, NC, Carolina Forest out of Myrtle Beach-Conway, and North Myrtle Beach.  It's just an absolutely ridiculous schedule.  Year in and year out even at the 2A level and sometimes competing at the 3A level, Dillon is one of the better schools in South Carolina at any level.  Loris received honorable mentioned votes in the preseason 2A rankings, but you can expect Loris to lose.  In 2016, Dillon beat Loris 37-0, in 2017, it was 39-20, in 2018, it was 47-14, and last year, it was 51-20.  Dillon is supposed to return most of it's starters and they beat most teams like the scores you seen above with Loris.  If you see a score where Loris is withing 14 or 17 points, or something like 38-21, or 35-21, you can already consider that a major turn around for Mance at Loris High.  I used to live in Conway and am familiar some with Myrtle Beach area schools.  Loris, even though in Horry County, is about 30 minutes from Cherry Grove-North Myrtle and is a very rural area.  They've always had athletes, but their coaching has been pretty bad.  Mance has talent at Loris and he will turn it around, but it will take a while due to that ridiculous schedule.  It would kind of be like Richlands in those few years where they had Bluefield, Union, Graham, Blacksburg, Lord Botty or William Byrd on the schedule.  They literally have 5 juggernouts every year and 3 of the other 5 or so are also tough.

Plays against Dillon High, a powerhouse and one of the best programs for its size on the East Coast.  Dillon is preseason ranked number one in SC again preseason at the 2A level and has played in the state championship game 11 out of 12 years, and winning something like 5 out of the last 8.  Size for size, this bunch is one bad outfit.  Coach Mance will bring that program up though.  Loris has great athletes, but he will playing one of the tougher schedules for a 2A school in South Carolina.  Teams like Dillon, Green Sea,  South Columbus, NC, Carolina Forest out of Myrtle Beach-Conway, and North Myrtle Beach.  It's just an absolutely ridiculous schedule.  Year in and year out even at the 2A level and sometimes competing at the 3A level, Dillon is one of the better schools in South Carolina at any level.  Loris received honorable mentioned votes in the preseason 2A rankings, but you can expect Loris to lose.  In 2016, Dillon beat Loris 37-0, in 2017, it was 39-20, in 2018, it was 47-14, and last year, it was 51-20.  Dillon is supposed to return most of it's starters and they beat most teams like the scores you seen above with Loris.  If you see a score where Loris is withing 14 or 17 points, or something like 38-21, or 35-21, you can already consider that a major turn around for Mance at Loris High.  I used to live in Conway and am familiar some with Myrtle Beach area schools.  Loris, even though in Horry County, is about 30 minutes from Cherry Grove-North Myrtle and is a very rural area.  They've always had athletes, but their coaching has been pretty bad.  Mance has talent at Loris and he will turn it around, but it will take a while due to that ridiculous schedule.  It would kind of be like Richlands in those few years where they had Bluefield, Union, Graham, Blacksburg, Lord Botty or William Byrd on the schedule.  They literally have 5 juggernouts every year and 3 of the other 5 or so are also tough.

Plays against Dillon High, a powerhouse and one of the best programs for its size on the East Coast.  Dillon is preseason ranked number one in SC again preseason at the 2A level and has played in the state championship game 11 out of 12 years, and winning something like 5 out of the last 8.  Size for size, this bunch is one bad outfit.  Coach Mance will bring that program up though.  Loris has great athletes, but he will playing one of the tougher schedules for a 2A school in South Carolina.  Teams like Dillon, Green Sea,  South Columbus, NC, Carolina Forest out of Myrtle Beach-Conway, and North Myrtle Beach.  It's just an absolutely ridiculous schedule.  Year in and year out even at the 2A level and sometimes competing at the 3A level, Dillon is one of the better schools in South Carolina at any level.  Loris received honorable mentioned votes in the preseason 2A rankings, but you can expect Loris to lose.  In 2016, Dillon beat Loris 37-0, in 2017, it was 39-20, in 2018, it was 47-14, and last year, it was 51-20.  Dillon is supposed to return most of it's starters and they beat most teams like the scores you seen above with Loris.  If you see a score where Loris is withing 14 or 17 points, or something like 38-21, or 35-21, you can already consider that a major turn around for Mance at Loris High.  I used to live in Conway and am familiar some with Myrtle Beach area schools.  Loris, even though in Horry County, is about 30 minutes from Cherry Grove-North Myrtle and is a very rural area.  They've always had athletes, but their coaching has been pretty bad.  Mance has talent at Loris and he will turn it around, but it will take a while due to that ridiculous schedule.  It would kind of be like Richlands in those few years where they had Bluefield, Union, Graham, Blacksburg, Lord Botty or William Byrd on the schedule.  They literally have 5 juggernouts every year and 3 of the other 5 or so are also tough.

Mitchell Stadium, the home of the Bluefield Beavers and the home of the Graham G-Men.  In the picture, you are also looking at two states.  Mostly West Virginia in the photo, but far to the right and up top would be the state of Virginia.

The VHSL is completely controlled by the state administration. The decision or answer of YES or NO for football in the fall has already been decided for them, and decided ABOVE them. 

Mitchell Stadium, the home of the Bluefield Beavers and the home of the Graham G-Men.  In the picture, you are also looking at two states.  Mostly West Virginia in the photo, but far to the right and up top would be the state of Virginia.

The VHSL is completely controlled by the state administration. The decision or answer of YES or NO for football in the fall has already been decided for them, and decided ABOVE them. 

Let's say all VHSL members were in 100% agreement for playing this fall, and let's say that all of them were very aggressive and nearly campaigning to play in public.  You do realize the Governor, with one quick stroke can say, "no play" and that's all it takes.  Therefore, FORGET about VHSL rumors, meetings, or what each of them personally feel or want to do, etc.  The governor loves politics and he will do his best to insert ANY possible negative light that he could shine on the opposing party. 

Let's say all VHSL members were in 100% agreement for playing this fall, and let's say that all of them were very aggressive and nearly campaigning to play in public.  You do realize the Governor, with one quick stroke can say, "no play" and that's all it takes.  Therefore, FORGET about VHSL rumors, meetings, or what each of them personally feel or want to do, etc.  The governor loves politics and he will do his best to insert ANY possible negative light that he could shine on the opposing party. 

Would like to see the WVSACC mandate masks as mandatory for all in attendance. It only takes one outbreak and the risk for cancelled games goes up. If I were a Head Coach, AD, School Official, Mayor, etc., I would push hard for my fans to mask up. Whatever I could do to decrease the chances of my season being further shortened, I would do it.

Moving the season, if handled correctly, could be a blessing for teams like GC. Assuming the players have access to one, 6 extra months in the weight room could be a difference maker. 2020 should be the season of Hogs & square bodies; save the spread offenses for 2021. 

With respect to those who hold a different opinion, I'm not one saying they end up with the same amount of titles.   Like I wrote, I think Graham in 1978, 1981, 1990, 1993, 2001, and 2003 win state titles, and they would have been in the mix in 1974 and 1984. I think they would have lost to PV in 1995.  So, in my opinion only, I think they would have very likely had 5 more state titles to their resume. Multiple examples given in the thread, for example, Graham 1993.  Giles win Div 2 state title and goes 14-0.  Closest games are Haysi and BBurg with Giles winning by a touchdown in both.  Graham in 1993 throttled Blacksburg 26-14, but a game that was 26-0 at one point and Blacksburg had a last minute score to make it 13-14 points.  Graham lost to an All American led Jefferson Forest team in Anthony Poindexter in a very competitive game in the semi's. 

If you ever met Coach Carlock, you would understand why.

Coach Carlock was a tough Dude.  A former marine who was all about playing the best competition and competing against very tough competition.  He was wired that way.  As mentioned, the single A schools in the area (keep in mind now, 1971 to 1985 (3 levels of play in Virginia).  Graham would have been playing the likes of Pocahontas (no disrespect to the Indians who I still love and went there for 2 years), Fort Chiswell, Rural Retreat, Northwood, Garden, Saltville -Worthy High (fell off big time by the mid 70's after their late state runs of prior years), Rich Valley etc.  The single A competition in far Southwestern Va with the likes of Lonesome Pine was more than legit as we all know, but Graham couldn't possibly be in that district with those travel times.  By 1986 with the reclassification from 3 levels of play to 6 levels of play, Graham's usual competition was already at the Div 3 level.  Also, Coach Carlock loved going east.  Graham played Blacksburg, Salem, Christiansburg many times and many years, and he had some games with GW Danville.  Those teams wouldn't have likely played game after 1985 when Graham played em (if Graham were Div 2-Single A  I know Giles and BBurg played when Giles dropped in the early 90's, but that's a rival game.  For the reasons above, these are why Graham played down for years not just from 71 to 85, but from 86 until Graham finally dropped to Div 2 in the mid 2000s. As Sasquatch mentioned, I had forgot about GW Danville, Elizabethton, Woodrow Wilson (Triple A Beckley, WV), also Greenville, TN, with Graham winning one of those contests over Greenville also.  
Coach Carlock actually scrimmaged Varina once.  I think this was Ahmad Bradshaw's senior year.  Varina was a powerhouse.  I think they were Div 5 then. 

Graham would have done well at the single A level from 72 through 85, which is where they should have been. Graham also would have done well in 93, 2000, and really from 2000-2004ish at the Group 2A level and not playing Div 3. The 93 team by seasons end was very good, and lost to a once in a generational type team in Jef. Forest in the semis. Hard to say what happens historically, but Graham, Richlands, Gate City, and Giles have been at the same level for a while now, and P. Valley/Union has gone 2 decades since winning a title.
One thing we can't account for and many forget about when discussing these things is not game 14 or 15 and which team is better on that game. It's about the wear and tear of playing the schedule of a higher level from games 1 through 13 and the competition getting there, and what competition does in the areas of injuries. I'm touching on the old Boise State argument and no question, as Boise demonstrated, they could play with and sometimes beat the elite Big 12/SEC schools in those Big Bowl games for one given game, but Boise wasn't going through the gauntlet like Oklahoma or Bama was week after week which tears into your depth chart. At the Div 3 level, Graham was playing the likes of 5A GW Danville, Blacksburg, Woodrow Wilson,  Greenville, TN, and just an absolute gauntlet of teams long before the state semis or state finals. Historically, nobody knows what would have happened, but Graham truly did play up for years.
Years I feel confident the GMen would have done well and very likely would have had a title if playing down were....
1976- Graham lost to BBurg who then lost to Martinsville 6-3 as time expired, and Martinsville lost state title to legendary Southampton in the title game as time expired. Graham beat Gate City in 76. In single A, Pennington lost the state title to Madison County by a TD.
1981, Graham lost at Martinsville (if I can call it that) and Martinsville lost at Tabb the following week in the title game.
1990, 
1993- one of the most underrated Graham teams. Lost 7-6 at Salem in a game Graham doubled Salem's total yardage and had 5 TOs. In the playoffs, Graham lost to a 2015 type Appo team in Jef. FOREST which was a once in a two decade type team. Giles won the Div 2 title and it's closest games were Blacksburg (beat em by a TD) and Haysi. Graham best Blacksburg by 2 TDs that year and led 26-7 until a last minute Blacksburg score. 
2001. That Graham team shouldn't have lost to Harrisonburg 
2003. Ahmad's senior year lost to again, what may have been a team of the decade in yr semis to Gretna. 
If Graham had played at their level, I think they have 6 more title minus one to equal 5 more. In 95, Graham wouldn't have beat Powell Valley. Graham had some good teams that they would have been in the conversation for in 1974, 1978 and 1984.  One of Gate Cities toughest contest on that legendary team was their 37-0 win over Graham, but a game that was 14-0 going I to the fourth. GC beat Southampton 28-7 in yr state finals. If Graham is single A in 74, they would have been in the mix for sure.

I think it's fair to say one team prob snipes one title from the other (Graham takes PVs in 89 but PV gets Grahams in 95) and the 1990 game is basically a coin flip. The 90 PV team was a veteran team that didn't have many holes. Graham probably had more athletic talent at the skill positions but PV was rock solid at the LOS and had a great QB. They finished undefeated and only one opponent, Lebanon, was within one score. 
 
There were a couple common opponents in 1990:
Grundy (PV won 42-0, Graham won 47-16)
Gate City (PV won 40-18, Graham won 34-15 in the half state game)
Not a lot can be gleaned there, both beat GC handily at home and both beat Grundy handily, PV on road and Graham at home. 
would have been an incredible matchup, I'd favor PV but I'm not the most impartial juror.
 
in 95, I feel like PV would be a decent favorite. They were undefeated and beat one of the two teams that got Graham early in the season, Lee, by a decent margin (PV won 48-33 at home, Graham fell 21-19 at Lee). The transitive property usually means very little when predicting old games but it's really all we have to go on. Both teams beat Richlands (PV won 34-13 on road, Graham won 31-3 on road) and Gate City (PV won 12-0 at GC, Graham beat them twice, 31-13 at home and 21-14 at GC). But it's all transitive and hypothetical anyway. 

This tread is totally going in the Wilderness.

"3A" Division 3 for Graham, not 2A. Graham won 2 titles at the Division 3 level while playing with 1A numbers. 
Back then, there were 6 levels of classification like there is today, but they were called Divisions. Div 1 through 6. Graham was Div 3. You also had single A, AA, and AAA and in Single A, you had Div 1 and 2. In AA, you had Div 3 and 4, and in AAA, you had Div 5 and 6. Most people used the lingo of Big and Small instead of Divisions when describing a team. For example, Richlands in 1992 was "Double A big," or Division 4. Graham was "AA small," meaning Division 3, biut not to be mistaken as the 2nd out of 6 levels of play. 
In 1962, Graham had 2A numbers at best (borderline 1A numbers) when they won the Triple A state title, and VA only had 3 classes or levels of play then. From 1970 to 1985, vA still only had 3 classes and Graham was AA and should have been 1A the whole time.  Graham had several state semis and one state title loss while in Div 3 in addition to the 2 titles won while in Div 3.  In all truth, Graham played not just up for 50 years, but played 2 levels/2 classifications up for about 45-50 years. That's the remarkable part to me in that they truly were borderline playing up 2 classifications from where they should have been.
Last of all, how about Tazewell's 86 and Richland's 92 titles. Both would be equal to 4A today as both schools then were 2A "big," Division 4 and VA having 6 classes of play, both schools won titles playing at the 4yh highest out of 6 classifications. That's impressive.