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It seems that the Scott County Board of Supervisors has came up with a plan for the BOE to start charging tuition for Tennessee students in the school system, while no dollar figure has been released on the amount of money to be charged to the families this is a game changer!

According to the numbers I have heard there around 300 students from Tennessee already in the system and the number have been growing every year, the elementary schools at Yuma and Weber City are full and Shoemaker (Gate City) is nearly full. These numbers are going to have quite an impact on the enrollment numbers at Gate City, if the numbers keep going up it could Gate City close to class 3A, and if the students leave it could eventually drop Gate City to 1A. If anyone can offer any information to the post feel free to post...just FYI I found out today that Kingsport City Schools charges 6,000.00 per year to Virginia students to attend Dobyns Bennett...WoW!  

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Even if they lost all 300 that wouldnt be enough to drop GC to 1A.  If theres 300 in the system that only means GC would lose 100 kids (assuming an average of 25 kids per grade 1-12 and all 300 are attending Gate City area schools)

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Its going to be an interesting time.  I may be really happy that I lost the election now.  The BOS cannot enforce anything the School Board does not agree to though.  What will be very interesting is seeing how many try to migrate over with North closing.  A lot of folks in the TS communities posed this question to me about tuition as they feel like tax money is being wasted on out of state students that only benefits GC.  Right now, those TN students bring in a ton of state tax money to the Scott School System.  Yes it is costing the county a little extra money but if all of those TN kids left and went back to TN the system would lose just shy of 3 millions state and federal funds.  

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39 minutes ago, 1inStripes said:

Its going to be an interesting time.  I may be really happy that I lost the election now.  The BOS cannot enforce anything the School Board does not agree to though.  What will be very interesting is seeing how many try to migrate over with North closing.  A lot of folks in the TS communities posed this question to me about tuition as they feel like tax money is being wasted on out of state students that only benefits GC.  Right now, those TN students bring in a ton of state tax money to the Scott School System.  Yes it is costing the county a little extra money but if all of those TN kids left and went back to TN the system would lose just shy of 3 millions state and federal funds.  

I wonder if any students will be grandfathered in...I have two nephews and a niece that live in Carter's Valley and never spent a single second in Hawkins County Schools. I have heard that the school system thinks the numbers could go to five to six hundred in the next five years or so..

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We have had our kids in Scott County from Hawkins for years.  

Let’s look at the numbers.  
 

Bloomingdale / Sullivan North to Gate City HS  - 12 to 14 minute drive at 7 - 8 mile drive.

 

Bloomingdale / Sullivan North to West Ridge HS - 18 to 20 minute drive at 12 - 14 mile drive. 
 

Where would you want your kid driving if it were to start snowing and school let out?  
 

People also tend to forget that Gate City is in a unique position unlike many schools in the area... or their own county.  All schools around here except DB.   The unique situation is that, like DB, Gate City is situated about 5 miles from the state line.  People are saying, “Keep your kids on your side.  We don’t want them over here with our kids.” 
 

Seriously how damn selfish do you have to be?  You whine and you cry about how you feel teachers are underpaid, how you need better schools.  Then when it looks like someone is proposing an idea of charging students to come to school here you throw parties and give congratulations to everyone because now the school will just belong to the people in the county and not any “outsiders”.  
 

Here is the problem that has long plagued the citizens of Scott County and its people for years.  A sense of Elitism.  A sense of entitlement.  
 

Ok.  What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.  Since you don’t want Tennessee students coming to be educated by your teachers I am going to write the President of Eastman Chemical Company and tell him to fire every single worker from Virginia because they are taking away jobs from all the people who would be great workers in East Tennessee.  We don’t need that backwoods hillbilly trash working over here.  Go find your own jobs.  
 

Don’t want to educate the kids from over here that love coming to be apart of you and your county?   Then keep your tails out of our workforce.  And don’t say, “Ohhh but there aren’t any jobs!”   Well then go be like a search party and go find some.   
 

That or we can just charge you to work for us.  We can take it out of your pay.  
 

Yes sir that sounds like a plan to me!   
 

So all you elitists in Scott County.  Just go ahead and show us why you guys are so awesome and you don’t need us.  You need us probably a little more than some of our kids need you.  Just saying.  

 

Im a proud Blue Devil but Scott County will never consolidate into one school ever for two reasons.  
 

1). The county is pretty large and it’s geography might better be suited for two high schools instead of one. 
 

2). No one can stand the elitist butthole attitudes that a lot of the people have over there. It’s GC gets this and GC gets that.   People at TS and RC if the roles were reversed I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be saying anything about it if they were the school closest to the state line.  But that’s the thing. What you are ignorant about you don’t know about.   

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I've seen some of the stuff about Scott Co charging tuition. Some of the same misinformation I heard from Wise Co's BOS in 2009-2011. The BOS has no authority whatsoever to charge tuition. That is completely up to the school system. They can attempt to bully the schools like Wise Co tried, but they will fail. They are required by VA law to fund the school system at the local match amount as determined by the Local Composite Index. So, they can't threaten to withhold money without running afoul of the law.

As far as DB goes, the out of state tuition was $9,500 in 2018 according to this article... https://www.timesnews.net/Education/2018/05/02/City-school-budget-ups-tuition-cuts-driver-s-ed

The way TN funds schools compared to VA schools is very different. Some of the county schools in TN are downright pitiful in what they have to offer students, even compared to us hillbillies in SWVA.

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2 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

Its going to be an interesting time.  I may be really happy that I lost the election now.  The BOS cannot enforce anything the School Board does not agree to though.  What will be very interesting is seeing how many try to migrate over with North closing.  A lot of folks in the TS communities posed this question to me about tuition as they feel like tax money is being wasted on out of state students that only benefits GC.  Right now, those TN students bring in a ton of state tax money to the Scott School System.  Yes it is costing the county a little extra money but if all of those TN kids left and went back to TN the system would lose just shy of 3 millions state and federal funds.  

With the last part, you hit the nail on the head.  The county receives from state and federal funds more than 4 times the money it invests per student.  So, for every student that leaves because of a tuition fee, the school system will lose around $8500.  The county's net loss would be around $7000 per student.  My understanding is that the BOS pays the local fee, but doesn't see any of the state or federal money because it is sent straight to the school system.  If that is the case, all the county's taxpayers are still seeing a return in money for their school due to the state and federal money being a much larger amount than the local share...plus, all the state and local funding is sent to the school board, not the individual schools.  But, because of the way the money is accounted for, it's hard to explain that to someone who doesn't understand the way the school system is funded to begin with.

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47 minutes ago, BlueDevil4Life2008 said:

We have had our kids in Scott County from Hawkins for years.  

Let’s look at the numbers.  
 

Bloomingdale / Sullivan North to Gate City HS  - 12 to 14 minute drive at 7 - 8 mile drive.

 

Bloomingdale / Sullivan North to West Ridge HS - 18 to 20 minute drive at 12 - 14 mile drive. 
 

Where would you want your kid driving if it were to start snowing and school let out?  
 

People also tend to forget that Gate City is in a unique position unlike many schools in the area... or their own county.  All schools around here except DB.   The unique situation is that, like DB, Gate City is situated about 5 miles from the state line.  People are saying, “Keep your kids on your side.  We don’t want them over here with our kids.” 
 

Seriously how damn selfish do you have to be?  You whine and you cry about how you feel teachers are underpaid, how you need better schools.  Then when it looks like someone is proposing an idea of charging students to come to school here you throw parties and give congratulations to everyone because now the school will just belong to the people in the county and not any “outsiders”.  
 

Here is the problem that has long plagued the citizens of Scott County and its people for years.  A sense of Elitism.  A sense of entitlement.  
 

Ok.  What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.  Since you don’t want Tennessee students coming to be educated by your teachers I am going to write the President of Eastman Chemical Company and tell him to fire every single worker from Virginia because they are taking away jobs from all the people who would be great workers in East Tennessee.  We don’t need that backwoods hillbilly trash working over here.  Go find your own jobs.  
 

Don’t want to educate the kids from over here that love coming to be apart of you and your county?   Then keep your tails out of our workforce.  And don’t say, “Ohhh but there aren’t any jobs!”   Well then go be like a search party and go find some.   
 

That or we can just charge you to work for us.  We can take it out of your pay.  
 

Yes sir that sounds like a plan to me!   
 

So all you elitists in Scott County.  Just go ahead and show us why you guys are so awesome and you don’t need us.  You need us probably a little more than some of our kids need you.  Just saying.  

 

Im a proud Blue Devil but Scott County will never consolidate into one school ever for two reasons.  
 

1). The county is pretty large and it’s geography might better be suited for two high schools instead of one. 
 

2). No one can stand the elitist butthole attitudes that a lot of the people have over there. It’s GC gets this and GC gets that.   People at TS and RC if the roles were reversed I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be saying anything about it if they were the school closest to the state line.  But that’s the thing. What you are ignorant about you don’t know about.   

Besides Joe Biden calling a college student "a lying, dog faced, pony soldier" this is the second dumbest thing I have seen all day...

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15 minutes ago, SXSW said:

Besides Joe Biden calling a college student "a lying, dog faced, pony soldier" this is the second dumbest thing I have seen all day...

I had to look up "pony soldier", still dont really get it but I know what dog faced means.

And he said it to a supporter!

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3 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

Its going to be an interesting time.  I may be really happy that I lost the election now.  The BOS cannot enforce anything the School Board does not agree to though.  What will be very interesting is seeing how many try to migrate over with North closing.  A lot of folks in the TS communities posed this question to me about tuition as they feel like tax money is being wasted on out of state students that only benefits GC.  Right now, those TN students bring in a ton of state tax money to the Scott School System.  Yes it is costing the county a little extra money but if all of those TN kids left and went back to TN the system would lose just shy of 3 millions state and federal funds.  

Seems to me like that should about end this debate. Unless the tuition charges would somehow overcome that $3M number annually, this seems to be the wrong move. VA, for its faults in the public school system, ranks considerably higher than TN. US News and World Report has VA #7th overall in public schooling whereas Tennessee was #35. WalletHub had VA in their top ten and World Population Review has Virginia at #7 overall and 8th in K-12 public schools. They had TN 38th in K-12 public schools. So, sending kids to Virginia for schooling seems like a smart idea.

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13 hours ago, BigWinners said:

Seems to me like that should about end this debate. Unless the tuition charges would somehow overcome that $3M number annually, this seems to be the wrong move. VA, for its faults in the public school system, ranks considerably higher than TN. US News and World Report has VA #7th overall in public schooling whereas Tennessee was #35. WalletHub had VA in their top ten and World Population Review has Virginia at #7 overall and 8th in K-12 public schools. They had TN 38th in K-12 public schools. So, sending kids to Virginia for schooling seems like a smart idea.

But are Scott Co schools that much better than Hawkins Co, Sullivan Co, and Kingsport City?

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3 hours ago, redtiger said:

But are Scott Co schools that much better than Hawkins Co, Sullivan Co, and Kingsport City?

Sullivan County probably, Hawkins County definitely, Kingsport City No! What has killed the Sullivan County high schools ( North, South and Central) is Kingsport's annexation policy, they have cherry picked the best neighborhoods from Blountville, Colonial Heights, and Carter's Valley area and parts of Bloomingdale and most of Lynn Garden (if there is a good part of Lynn Garden) North has less than 450 kids now.

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17 hours ago, BigWinners said:

 VA, for its faults in the public school system, ranks considerably higher than TN. US News and World Report has VA #7th overall in public schooling whereas Tennessee was #35. WalletHub had VA in their top ten and World Population Review has Virginia at #7 overall and 8th in K-12 public schools. They had TN 38th in K-12 public schools. So, sending kids to Virginia for schooling seems like a smart idea.

Yes, but those rankings are high for VA mainly due to schools located in the NOVA area, not SWVA. The closest schools to SWVA that are ranked in the top 100 are in Blacksburg and Roanoke. 

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57 minutes ago, SXSW said:

Sullivan County probably, Hawkins County definitely, Kingsport City No! What has killed the Sullivan County high schools ( North, South and Central) is Kingsport's annexation policy, they have cherry picked the best neighborhoods from Blountville, Colonial Heights, and Carter's Valley area and parts of Bloomingdale and most of Lynn Garden (if there is a good part of Lynn Garden) North has less than 450 kids now.

I knew their enrollments were dropping, didnt know that was why.  Wasnt North always around 600?

I figured Sullivan Co would be ok, and Kingsport would be really good. Ive heard bad things about Hawkins for various reasons.

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34 minutes ago, redtiger said:

I knew their enrollments were dropping, didnt know that was why.  Wasnt North always around 600?

I figured Sullivan Co would be ok, and Kingsport would be really good. Ive heard bad things about Hawkins for various reasons.

Sullivan North and Sullivan South were both built to house around 1800 students each. Sullivan Central has around 1000 students as does South, but North has been under 500 for a long time, they play 2A sports ,South and Central are 4A. Hawkins County is a mess in every way possible.

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21 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

With the last part, you hit the nail on the head.  The county receives from state and federal funds more than 4 times the money it invests per student.  So, for every student that leaves because of a tuition fee, the school system will lose around $8500.  The county's net loss would be around $7000 per student.  My understanding is that the BOS pays the local fee, but doesn't see any of the state or federal money because it is sent straight to the school system.  If that is the case, all the county's taxpayers are still seeing a return in money for their school due to the state and federal money being a much larger amount than the local share...plus, all the state and local funding is sent to the school board, not the individual schools.  But, because of the way the money is accounted for, it's hard to explain that to someone who doesn't understand the way the school system is funded to begin with.

My math back in October had us spending 10,990 per student roughly in Scott County.  The state average was 10,400 if I remember correctly.  State funding makes up over 70% with federal and county money almost split.  Yes, it costs the county some money in the end, but we are making far more than we are losing for the system we have.   If we lost those 300 we would be best off shutting down a couple of elementary schools most likely.  I had a lot in my district question me on this.  I told them I needed more info before I would commit to anything but at the time sided with the status quo.  I wouldnt mind seeing a small fee setup for the flood we may see doubling that number after next year.  Grandfather the ones in already.  Give all teachers children the option to come in with no tuition and all county taxpayers.  That was if anything was done but we dont need to make huge adjustments at this time.  If the state ever changes how they fund schools, then it could cause a major issue.

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I agree I think.  If the county gets, let’s say for simple math, $10 per student but it costs $20 for the county per student then just charge the difference.  I don’t see how that would be too big of a problem, seeing that the surrounding Tn schools would charge a Va student to come there.  I definitely agree, if a teacher works at the school then there would be no fee, or if the parent works in Va. Also, if the student was previously enrolled before a change was or is made, then that should be waived as well.  I truly doubt it’s anything to do with “stay on your side of the line and we’ll stay on ours.”  That’s childish to even think that.  I’m sure Scott is one of the lowest in pay in the state so maybe this could help compensate some of the staff and coaches.  I don’t know if it could be used for that I’m just throwing that out there.

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I don't know what criteria the sites @BigWinners listed use to rank their schools/states, but, within Virginia, Region 7 (SWVA) consistently ranks in the top of Virginia's school districts on SOL achievement.

For the 2019-2020 school year, Reg 7 had the following number of districts in the top 25:

History - 7.......next best Reg 2 & 4 with 4 districts each
Science - 9.....next best Reg 4 with 4 districts
Reading - 9.....next best Reg 1,2,4 & 6 with 3 districts each
Math - 9 (12 in the top 28).....next best Reg 2 & 4 with 4 districts each

Writing was the worst performance with 4 districts in the top 25(3rd best). Reg 2 had 6 districts and Reg 4 had 5 districts.

So, 4 1st place finishes and they weren't close and 1 3rd place finish and it was close.

SWVA schools offer a very good education compared to other districts in Virginia and a great education compared to some of the Tennessee districts. And they do this while having 10 of the top 25 poorest counties in Virginia.

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5 hours ago, Hokie101 said:

I agree I think.  If the county gets, let’s say for simple math, $10 per student but it costs $20 for the county per student then just charge the difference.  I don’t see how that would be too big of a problem, seeing that the surrounding Tn schools would charge a Va student to come there.  I definitely agree, if a teacher works at the school then there would be no fee, or if the parent works in Va. Also, if the student was previously enrolled before a change was or is made, then that should be waived as well.  I truly doubt it’s anything to do with “stay on your side of the line and we’ll stay on ours.”  That’s childish to even think that.  I’m sure Scott is one of the lowest in pay in the state so maybe this could help compensate some of the staff and coaches.  I don’t know if it could be used for that I’m just throwing that out there.

That’s the thing...for simplicity sake, think of it like this: For every $1.50 the county spends on a student, they get $8.00 in state and federal funds. The caveat is that the locality has to spend that $1.50 in order to get those funds, and the BOS is allocating the $1.50 to the school system,  but the school system itself gets the $8.00. The total money is spread across the school system to pay employees and operate the system...not just at one school, but all schools in the district. So, if the county loses kids, they save some money of their own, but they lose out on a ton of state and federal money that is desperately needed in order to operate the school system itself.

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I just have one question.  Where does the state money come from?  Virginia tax payer dollars?  So in essence, when I pay my state taxes, my locality is missing out by those funds going to a county to support out of state kids?  Yes I know that some of the funding comes from the federal government as well. Gee, it is win, win situation for all of those people who live in TN and pay no state income tax, while Virginians have their taxes increased to cover the cost.  It looks like from what I have read, it is about keeping Scott County from consolidating. 

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1 hour ago, falconfan1 said:

I just have one question.  Where does the state money come from?  Virginia tax payer dollars?  So in essence, when I pay my state taxes, my locality is missing out by those funds going to a county to support out of state kids?  Yes I know that some of the funding comes from the federal government as well. Gee, it is win, win situation for all of those people who live in TN and pay no state income tax, while Virginians have their taxes increased to cover the cost.  It looks like from what I have read, it is about keeping Scott County from consolidating. 

Because Tennessee has no state income tax doesn't necessarily equate to lower taxation on Tennessee residents.  They have a significantly higher sales tax, meals tax and several other taxes to make up the difference from not having an income tax.  For example, Virginia's sales tax is 5.3% while Tennessee's is 8.5% to 9.75% depending on item of purchase.  Those taxes are paid by everyone purchase items in Tennessee, not just Tennessee residents. 

The question is, do you want more state tax revenue coming back to your local community or remain in Tidewater, NOVA and Richmond?  We're paying those taxes to the state whether we maximize what comes back or not.  Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  Just comparing state income tax is simply a short-sighted view of the situation in my opinion.

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I know that Tennesseans pay a higher sales tax....I prefer my money stay at home and in my community.   The point is they (TN) charge tuition and Virginia is giving them a free pass.   If I wanted to take care of everyone else, I would vote for Bernie.

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14 minutes ago, falconfan1 said:

I know that Tennesseans pay a higher sales tax....I prefer my money stay at home and in my community.   The point is they (TN) charge tuition and Virginia is giving them a free pass.   If I wanted to take care of everyone else, I would vote for Bernie.

Is it giving them a free pass though?  The more kids a school system has, the more money the state sends to that community, and it's a significant amount.  Thereby, bringing more of your tax revenue back to your community.

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1 hour ago, falconfan1 said:

I just have one question.  Where does the state money come from?  Virginia tax payer dollars?  So in essence, when I pay my state taxes, my locality is missing out by those funds going to a county to support out of state kids?  Yes I know that some of the funding comes from the federal government as well. Gee, it is win, win situation for all of those people who live in TN and pay no state income tax, while Virginians have their taxes increased to cover the cost.  It looks like from what I have read, it is about keeping Scott County from consolidating. 

Possibly, maybe, but no.

To understand school funding you would need to understand the Local Composite Index calculation that determines a locality's ability to pay for their children's education. Since no Reg 7 school district's LCI is above 50%, that essentially means that the locality is getting more from the state than they are contributing. So, is your income tax/sales tax getting put into a general pot that goes to all districts in VA? Technically, yes. Is all of the money that each Reg 7 district being returned plus more? Pretty much.

Based on data gathered from VDOE and tax.virginia.gov, and using Scott Co as the example since they are the topic of discussion, Soott Co sent Virginia less than $20 million in income/sales tax. Virginia funded their school system $28 million. And this isn't counting the other state money that the county/town governments receive from Virginia.

The TN residents aren't the winners here because they are paying all those taxes to Tennessee and NOT getting a free education in return. At least not from Tennessee. The REAL winners here are the students of Scott Co, as they get to share in the extra Virginia funded revenue that each TN kid brings in.

So, are you or any other Reg 7 resident paying for these TN students? No, not likely. Are residents in Fairfax City, Falls Church, Alexandria, Surry, Highland, Goochland, Bath, Arlington and others paying for it? Yep, most likely.

Claiming that a resident of Washington county is paying for TN students to attend school in Scott Co is stretching it a bit or otherwise Washington Co's LCI would be over 50% rather than the 35.22% it is.

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