Possible transfers next year.

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

1 hour ago, SwvaOG said:

Strictly Daddy ball coached with no common offense or defense or continuity between seasons.  The high school staff isn’t involved at all and I can’t say that I’ve seen open competition….positions seems to be pre-selected.

That's the exact blueprint Marion used for 50 years.

[Hokie Bound 107]

15 hours ago, Liam McPoyle said:

That's the exact blueprint Marion used for 50 years.

I've heard that Marion doesn't put their football players in pads until middle school. If true that is insane! 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

18 minutes ago, Hokie Bound said:

I've heard that Marion doesn't put their football players in pads until middle school. If true that is insane! 

I have a hard time believing this. I was at Marion at age 7, and they had me in pads, all white, even had the guys in white coats that would occasionally rush in. 

[Hokie Bound 107]

17 minutes ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

I have a hard time believing this. I was at Marion at age 7, and they had me in pads, all white, even had the guys in white coats that would occasionally rush in. 

I know. I didin't believe it at first but then I heard some of the kids where playing little league at Chilhowie for this very reason. I'm fairly certain it is true. Can Liam or anyone out there from Marion confirm this.

[sixcat 2,919]

18 minutes ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

I have a hard time believing this. I was at Marion at age 7, and they had me in pads, all white, even had the guys in white coats that would occasionally rush in. 

But were the rooms padded?

[Duke2015 451]

43 minutes ago, Hokie Bound said:

I've heard that Marion doesn't put their football players in pads until middle school. If true that is insane! 

I’ve heard this talked about before at other schools but not sure if they went through with it 

[Hokie Bound 107]

Just got it confirmed. For whatever reason they stopped playing in pads several years. So when kids get to middle school they get to tackle for the first time lol. I can't believe a 2A school plays flag football until middle school. Word is parents are pretty upset and are trying to get things back to where they used to be.

[Duke2015 451]

27 minutes ago, Hokie Bound said:

Just got it confirmed. For whatever reason they stopped playing in pads several years. So when kids get to middle school they get to tackle for the first time lol. I can't believe a 2A school plays flag football until middle school. Word is parents are pretty upset and are trying to get things back to where they used to be.

Actually might be more dangerous for not learning the right techniques early on.  And honestly what 8 year old is hitting hard enough to cause a concussion

[Gridiron60 2,555]

51 minutes ago, Hokie Bound said:

Just got it confirmed. For whatever reason they stopped playing in pads several years. So when kids get to middle school they get to tackle for the first time lol. I can't believe a 2A school plays flag football until middle school. Word is parents are pretty upset and are trying to get things back to where they used to be.

Actually, it probably better for younger kids not to be in full pads, they’re still developing and their bodies aren’t ready for full pads. Middle school is plenty soon enough to be in full pads, just my opinion. 

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

Out of concern for CTE, the Marion Town Council voted a few years back to play flag football through grade 6.  This has been extremely unpopular, and some have taken their kids to neighboring towns to play. It's apparent watching a MS game that most of these kids haven't learned to properly tackle, which, in my opinion, creates its own safety issue. 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

I don't know what the data says on CTE risk with young kids. My guess is that there isn't enough "force" at younger ages in physical contact/tackling to matter much if kids have on helmets. I'm saying that I question if there is any benefit in reducing risk by not letting them tackling and in pads before Middle School. The risk starts to occur as kids get bigger and stronger/more force and power behind the tackling. It seems all that Marion is doing is teaching kids to tackle at later ages (in Middle School) which is probably when the risk for CTE damage begins to occur, so the policy they have might actually be increasing the risk.

Only my guess though. I don't know what the literature says on this.

[SwvaOG 601]

This is the trend outside of this area.  In the south you are seeing a proliferation of competitive flag football and Under Armor sponsors big tournaments and the participation numbers are high.  This is the counter to kids leaving football for soccer and other "safer" sports. The push is for less contact early on and I'm sure the science backs it up.  I've always said that an improperly ran little league will only drive kids away.  Throw in the fact that the majority of little leagues in the area are coached by dad's who kids are skill position players and the focus on safe and proper fundamentals has decreased because the focus is on "scheme plays to get my little Johnny four TDs".   When I coached we had to be certified and attended training classes through multiple organizations.  There is zero focus on that in the local youth leagues from what I've witnessed.  

To make matters worse a lot of the youth coaches never played and don't understand the mental side of the game.  They run kids off.  "Let's see if he is tough enough to stick it out."  Football is a fast, physical and intimidating game to young kids, many of who haven't grown into their bodies.  Coaches need to teach and mentor those kids and work to keep them in the fold. 

If I could, I'd pass a law tomorrow that requires all youth coaches to be trained and certified and only allow credentialed personnel on the field.  

[SwvaOG 601]

1 hour ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

I don't know what the data says on CTE risk with young kids. My guess is that there isn't enough "force" at younger ages in physical contact/tackling to matter much if kids have on helmets. I'm saying that I question if there is any benefit in reducing risk by not letting them tackling and in pads before Middle School. The risk starts to occur as kids get bigger and stronger/more force and power behind the tackling. It seems all that Marion is doing is teaching kids to tackle at later ages (in Middle School) which is probably when the risk for CTE damage begins to occur, so the policy they have might actually be increasing the risk.

Only my guess though. I don't know what the literature says on this.

I suffered my first concussion doing Oklahoma drill in little league, I was 11 and completely trucked the kid trying to tackle me.     My second one came my freshman year doing bull in the ring, going against my older brother who was a senior.  I tackled him but he was an All-State fullback and he knocked the living shit out of me.  My form was fine but physics came into play. The point being that proper tackling didn't play into either of these scenarios.   I probably didn't need to suffer the first concussion.  And, listen, my older brother was one of the baddest dudes to ever suit up in this region.  Absolutely fearless and played with ill-intent and is, to this day, still talked about by the old-heads.  I have no idea how many concussions he suffered but he is now 55 and his mental acuity has greatly diminished over the past 8-10 years.  Forgets what he is doing all the time, developed a brutal stuttering habit in the past 3-5 years or so.  I'm 100% certain football played a part in that and he suffers from CTE.

Not arguing the point for or against Marion but I've always said that there is no benefit for kids under 11 to play tackle football other than their dad's ego and glory. 

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

Padded rooms coupled with flag football have virtually eliminated concussions here at the Institute. 

[Hokie Bound 107]

I see both sides of this debate. 1st and 2nd grade might be a little young for putting on the pads but in my opinion 3rd and 4th graders should be allowed to play tackle football with the PROPER COACHING. I also agree that many little league programs are about daddy coaching junior and junior being the star when junior is definitely not the star. Little league football is a kids first experience to the game and it needs to be a positive experience. By that I mean coaches need to be qualified with coaching experience and teach the kids the right way to play the game. A bad little league experience can run kids away from the game but so can a bad middle or high school experience. There are more unqualified coaches at the middle and high school levels than people realize as many of them coach to stroke their own ego. Marion had a very rough middle school season and I'm not sure if that was from being behind in fundamentals, lack of coaching or talent, or a combination of all three. 

[SwvaOG 601]

2 hours ago, Duke2015 said:

Actually might be more dangerous for not learning the right techniques early on.  And honestly what 8 year old is hitting hard enough to cause a concussion

Usually the concussions are from the head hitting the ground.  I don't think people realize that "getting your bell rung" is often a mild concussion.  If a 10 year old hits an 8 year old, wraps him up and drives his hips on the tackle and there is no helmet-to-helmet (basically a text book tackle).  The 8 year old has a good chance of having the back of his helmet smack the field with enough force to move the brain inside the cranium. 

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

The biggest threat to the future of youth tackle football, including school, is insurance. Only a few primary insurers and reinsurers remain and continues to decline as companies are leaving the market. The remaining companies are raising their premiums. Most if not all Virginia localities use insurance pools, either Vacorp or VRSA, as their primary insurer. A pool can help absorb the risk and control costs, but they'll still need a reinsurer willing to cover this activity. 

Marion and Virginia Beach are the first localities I could find in Va to take this step, though there are many others across the country. It'll be interesting to see if others follow suit. 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

Liam, SwvaOG, HokieBound, those are all good points in my opinion. I just glanced at some CTE data this AM and here's what I found. Strong evidence (overwhelming) supports the claim that CTE is clearly associated with Cumulative Head Trauma and it doesn't have to be full absolute "knock out concussions." It appears it's those continuous knocks on the head over an long time. The data is Not clear on specific young ages and when it starts and studies isolating specifically young kids because those are longitudinal studies that take 20 plus years to confirm, but the data clearly supports that CTE risk is a Cumulative long term thing and possibly more important than the 4 or 5 concussions sustained in football is the day to day non concussive head knocks that are equally or more important.

If going strictly by the literature as it relates specifically to CTE, Marions decision might be a good one.

[Duke2015 451]

1 hour ago, SwvaOG said:

Usually the concussions are from the head hitting the ground.  I don't think people realize that "getting your bell rung" is often a mild concussion.  If a 10 year old hits an 8 year old, wraps him up and drives his hips on the tackle and there is no helmet-to-helmet (basically a text book tackle).  The 8 year old has a good chance of having the back of his helmet smack the field with enough force to move the brain inside the cranium. 

Yeah there is a lot coming from back of helmet hitting the ground especially on turf.  Surprised they’ve not designed a helmet with some kind of padding for that 

[BigWinners 1,643]

And every field needs the right grass. That will help with some of the surface issues with head impacts. A nice field without dirt spots can really make it easier on kids not to smack their heads as hard. 

[sixcat 2,919]

Or, you know, those gravel lots with a thin layer of rubber pellets and plastic grass. That'll eliminate head injuries from smacking the turf!!!

The 10:00 mark of this video. The kid sat out ONE play!!! He can be seen walking in the background of the following TD clip for verification.

 

[SwvaOG 601]

Gents:  all good and valid points and material.  We need to protect the kids and our beloved sport. I’m shocked that some overarching organization hasn’t been established to govern the safety and establish guidelines for teaching and coaching youth football.  
Liam:  great point about the insurance.

[BigWinners 1,643]

6 hours ago, sixcat said:

Or, you know, those gravel lots with a thin layer of rubber pellets and plastic grass. That'll eliminate head injuries from smacking the turf!!!

The 10:00 mark of this video. The kid sat out ONE play!!! He can be seen walking in the background of the following TD clip for verification.

 

I’m a true believer in real grass. I think at every level, football should be played on real grass. 

[rdh2443 9]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:06 PM, SwvaOG said:

Agree.  He will not leave although he may regret it in a couple of years.  They have most of their talent coming back next year but they have to overcome some systemic issues.  They have to diversify their offense and stop being so tendency driven and they have to get back to being a physical, down hill blocking line like they were several years ago during the Adkins years.  They have the kids and size but they rarely dominate the LOS,   
 Also, please calls plays for your talent.  You have a good slot and a potential All-Region TE if you will use him.  
 

Right on OG. One thing about Ryan, he will prepare for next year like a pro with it being his senior year and a bunch of great home games. With the talent they have coming back next year they should be dynamic! Could have the most usable and useful TE for sure. TICKS ME OFF he isn’t being used now! That’s always a big advantage. Scanlon is set to be prolific on both sides of the ball If he continues to grow in skill and of course speed and strength. It could pan out that some new kids coming up could also make impacts early on especially one who is already making big progress in the gym and his season just ended. The M7 in general is going to be full of talent and good teams. I  feel like the only way RV can overcome the refusal of the offensive coaching to grow, is to do it with much more strength, speed, and most importantly fundamentals. Whoever calls those plays isn’t going to adapt to their player’s abilities and team capabilities, they expect the players and team to adapt to their play calling. 

[SwvaOG 601]

22 hours ago, rdh2443 said:

Right on OG. One thing about Ryan, he will prepare for next year like a pro with it being his senior year and a bunch of great home games. With the talent they have coming back next year they should be dynamic! Could have the most usable and useful TE for sure. TICKS ME OFF he isn’t being used now! That’s always a big advantage. Scanlon is set to be prolific on both sides of the ball If he continues to grow in skill and of course speed and strength. It could pan out that some new kids coming up could also make impacts early on especially one who is already making big progress in the gym and his season just ended. The M7 in general is going to be full of talent and good teams. I  feel like the only way RV can overcome the refusal of the offensive coaching to grow, is to do it with much more strength, speed, and most importantly fundamentals. Whoever calls those plays isn’t going to adapt to their player’s abilities and team capabilities, they expect the players and team to adapt to their play calling. 

Agree; however, the S&C program is not good and some of the position groups are wholly under-developed in terms of fundamentals.  Under this coaching staff's penchant for playing favorites and refusal to utilize their athletes properly they won't reach their full potential, just like last year's class.  

As for the TE.  If that was my player, he'd have 50 catches and 700 yards by now. I'd post his big butt up on those OLBs all day long.  I'd isolate him on your smallest backer and let him tackle that 250lbs a couple of times.  If your safety wanted some, I'd hook him up as well. When I wasn't throwing to him, I'd use him as an H-back and fullback.  And I'd make sure to tell him on the first play of the game knock the hell outta the biggest DL you can find.  Let 'em know you're there and not right in the head.