New Head Coach at Richlands

[Gridiron60 2,555]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:52 PM, fishfan said:

I believe issues in Richlands can be attributed to new culture of kids coming up in today’s world. We are phasing out the old ways of doing things…discipline, manners, morals, respect and plain out “want to” and grit.  It’s going to take a strong minded individual to raise standards in practice and on the field if they aren’t getting it in the classroom or at home. 

Most kids are not mentally tough anymore and a lot are lazy! Every team has a few of them including the GMen. It most certainly starts at home & is often hard to overcome on the field. Great coaches can help compensate and overcome this mindset. 

[SXSW 557]

Football more than any sport is cyclical: teams go through bad cycles, even the best go through bad times and dynasties crumble back to reality. Lack of talent can't help a good coach and good talent can't overcome bad coaching! If you have no talent and bad coaching you get a total disaster! The wrong coach at the wrong time can set a program back years and in the instant gratification society we live in people aren't willing to basically push the reset button and try to good again in 5 years, but that is where this situation seems to at Richlands the school board, administration, boosters, fans and players need to take the 50,000 foot view and see the big picture or this cycle will never stop.. Like I posted above this situation is what happened at Gate City and Graham years ago! You can rebuild it but will everyone take the time and do it or will it mire in football purgatory for the next 10 years! Choose wisely my friends, Choose wisely! 

[Tru Blue72 88]

2 hours ago, SXSW said:

Football more than any sport is cyclical: teams go through bad cycles, even the best go through bad times and dynasties crumble back to reality. Lack of talent can't help a good coach and good talent can't overcome bad coaching! If you have no talent and bad coaching you get a total disaster! The wrong coach at the wrong time can set a program back years and in the instant gratification society we live in people aren't willing to basically push the reset button and try to good again in 5 years, but that is where this situation seems to at Richlands the school board, administration, boosters, fans and players need to take the 50,000 foot view and see the big picture or this cycle will never stop.. Like I posted above this situation is what happened at Gate City and Graham years ago! You can rebuild it but will everyone take the time and do it or will it mire in football purgatory for the next 10 years! Choose wisely my friends, Choose wisely! 

You are correct, as I have posted before, talent in SWD football seems to come in cycles.  IMO it used to be about a four year cycle, and now with transfers and such it may have migrated into a longer time period.  Richlands has been blessed to have the talent and coaches they have had over the last ten years befor this year.  I attribute a lot of this to the feeder program and a couple of little league coaches that tore down the program.  I remember years ago there was four to six teams in our feeder program and then a couple of coaches started complaining about not getting the talent to win every game.  Those coaches were put in charge of the program while still coaching and begin to close teams down in order to get better players. Before you know it, we're down to two teams with each haveing a sideline full of players (most never get to play) but the coaches have their pick of talent and win the games.  If a litte league program has 40 players registered and only play 12 to 13 how could that be good for the future.  I think that's where the wheels started coming off the wagon and now it's even worse.  Hope the feeder program grows into more teams and give all the players a chance to be part of it.  Don't mean to run on, but when the HC is hired, he needs to visit the halls of both the Middle School and High School because there are many talented would be players that walk those halls.  the only reason they don't come out is because they know they will not play due to the "good old buddy" system that's going on.

[S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE 239]

32 minutes ago, Tru Blue72 said:

If a litte league program has 40 players registered and only play 12 to 13 how could that be good for the future.  I think that's where the wheels started coming off the wagon and now it's even worse.  Hope the feeder program grows into more teams and give all the players a chance to be part of it.  Don't mean to run on, but when the HC is hired, he needs to visit the halls of both the Middle School and High School because there are many talented would be players that walk those halls.  the only reason they don't come out is because they know they will not play due to the "good old buddy" system that's going on.

Why in-house in the old days worked.  Build your own, take care of your own without focusing so much on competition.  The high school staff should be involved to the extent that the youth are running the base O/D as the high school so it's not all new when they get there.  Most local teams in earlier days were better consistently at the high school level because they knew and grew what they had coming. I think a couple of teams in the M7 attempted to do the district-wide travel type with only a few schools participating.  Not sure how it worked out but I wonder if the HC's had anything to do with it.  I can see the importance on the middle school level, not so much the younger kids. It only makes sense to build your own teams and play in house.  EX: 5 teams, 5 sets of every position plus the others that aren't starting but getting playing time on offense, defense, and special teams.  The pros outweigh the cons.  Whoever gets this job is going to have to make that tough decision with returning players.  Do you let your Jr/Sr class be varsity along with a handful of So? Or, do you let every available athlete that could contribute do just that?  If the varsity takes some lumps but allows the Fr/So to grow up together on JV for a year or two before throwing them to the wolves, is that better now or later?  Tough times ain't over yet.

[tornado99 345]

I wonder about both sides of the arguments concerning football especially. I think varsity involvement is a must on either side.  More teams, and in-house, develops and teaches a greater number of kids. 
The fewer teams and traveling likely develops and is more beneficial to your core best athletes. I would argue that Honaker, Hurley, Lebanon, etc. has benefited more from the current arrangement than Richlands in what is less than a numbers game. Five or 6 stars makes a significant difference in Class 1 versus Class 2.

I prefer in-house for personal reasons and believe it is the journey more than the destination, but concede the benefits to other side. I look to Big Stone Gap and Galax as examples that other posters have mentioned and would encourage outreach to seemingly successful communities for their opinions and results. Maybe, some of the smaller communities prefer the current feeder system in place as I have mentioned (SWVA League?).

My suggestion for compromise if there is a divide may not be feasible for a number of reasons, but I would look to the models of other sports that have travel sports for the gifted, those committed, and/or in better places financially, and local recreation programs for the rest that may eventually feed into the others. 

Example: 4-5 evenly distributed teams (this is where 8 man may come into play), play a short season or portion and the rest play a normal season. If that doesn’t work, you can have A and B teams or something to the equivalent of JV/varsity.

 Disclaimer: I’m just trying to think of ideas and acknowledge obstacles such as time, money, and volunteers. I believe that the vast majority of those coaches and administrators have good intentions and are trying to do the best they can. I also have an inherent bias to getting as many as possible to learn and enjoy the best parts of the game for the longest time. That may or may not equate to wins and losses, although the optimist hopes that takes care of itself.

While I’m not a huge fan of travel sports, I acknowledge that it is here and can be a good thing in the right situations.

Feedback welcomed.

[Tru Blue72 88]

I'll be honest, I haven't been to a little league game in a while because of the declining condition of the program I witnessed a few years ago and maybe it has changed, I would hope so.  Looking back over the years, some of my fondest times was when I played little league.  Made a lot of life time friends, and the fact that we all were disciplined by coaches who gave their time because the love of the game, not to be recognized for their own career.  So to clear up why I quit attending little league: Last game I attended, Richlands had two team programs.  Both teams had an abundance of players at all levels.  I watched all three age groups play and noticed that in the upper age class, both teams had between 40 & 60 players dressed on the side lines, yes I'm guessing, but they both were stacked.  However I do know for sure, I counted, one team played a total of 12 players, and the other team played a total of 15 players throughout the whole game.  Both coaches acted like they were coaching the Dallas Cowboys or the Oakland Raiders instead of young minds eager to learn the game of football.  All the while the left out players were mulling around the sideline doing absouletly nothing.  That's not a feeder program, that's an I wanna be the winning coach program.  Back when I palyed many, many, years ago, we never won all the games, but everyone got to play, and we had a heck of a lot of fun learning the game.  

[jeffro 30]

10 minutes ago, Tru Blue72 said:

I'll be honest, I haven't been to a little league game in a while because of the declining condition of the program I witnessed a few years ago and maybe it has changed, I would hope so.  Looking back over the years, some of my fondest times was when I played little league.  Made a lot of life time friends, and the fact that we all were disciplined by coaches who gave their time because the love of the game, not to be recognized for their own career.  So to clear up why I quit attending little league: Last game I attended, Richlands had two team programs.  Both teams had an abundance of players at all levels.  I watched all three age groups play and noticed that in the upper age class, both teams had between 40 & 60 players dressed on the side lines, yes I'm guessing, but they both were stacked.  However I do know for sure, I counted, one team played a total of 12 players, and the other team played a total of 15 players throughout the whole game.  Both coaches acted like they were coaching the Dallas Cowboys or the Oakland Raiders instead of young minds eager to learn the game of football.  All the while the left out players were mulling around the sideline doing absouletly nothing.  That's not a feeder program, that's an I wanna be the winning coach program.  Back when I palyed many, many, years ago, we never won all the games, but everyone got to play, and we had a heck of a lot of fun learning the game.  

It has not changed, except 2 teams this year and one of the teams were clearly stacked, 1 of the better players switched teams to play for the better team. and yes the coaches thought they were coaching the Eagles.

[Tru Blue72 88]

11 minutes ago, jeffro said:

It has not changed, except 2 teams this year and one of the teams were clearly stacked, 1 of the better players switched teams to play for the better team. and yes the coaches thought they were coaching the Eagles.

What is so hard to see that if you split those teams and have four instead of two, there will still be plenty of players and this will help the Middle School and High School programs.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. No wonder the high school program is suffering.  I just hate it for the kids, who are loosing out on some great experience that could change their life.

[tornado99 345]

7 minutes ago, Tru Blue72 said:

What is so hard to see that if you split those teams and have four instead of two, there will still be plenty of players and this will help the Middle School and High School programs.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. No wonder the high school program is suffering.  I just hate it for the kids, who are loosing out on some great experience that could change their life.

I will say in defense of those who were, and are in administration, were dealing with the issues of downward trending numbers when teams were consolidating. I think recently, the numbers have increased giving us the current dilemma of too many players per team. My observation/opinion was that there were a couple of spells of too many players for two teams, but not enough to reliably field 3 consistently. I don’t know enough about 8 man, just intrigued by the Galax posts, but that is a mathematical approach. 
If numbers are consistent, and drafts were every year, it’s a simple solution to divide the teams. 
I think the hardest thing in human nature is not elevating immediate returns (wins, championships, accolades), for the long term goals such as character development. It’s definitely easier to take a talented player who needs little instruction, than starting with a project to make a role player.

It’s probably not a popular opinion, because I don’t dismiss participation trophies entirely. I think kids should be rewarded for their efforts in addition to accomplishments. 
 

I see it as champions>participation >not trying.

[SwvaOG 601]

Folks, when I say that I haven't seen one open competition in Dickinson County, I'm not exaggerating.  This is part of the reason kids leave the sport.  It sounds like Richlands has the same daddy ball habits.  I was fortunate enough to play for Ansil Salyers growing up.  He was a lifelong miner and tobacco farmer and coached the Baptist Valley Tigers for decades.  You wanted to be QB?  You had to beat out the 6 other kids who wanted it, too.  No favorites, no dads/uncles getting in the way.  The leagues have to get back to this. 

I'll say it again.  The varsity HC has to take more control over the youth league and middle school programs.  Prime example, my middle school team was coached by four coaches who were all teachers, were all part of the greater varsity program and had zero kids playing on the team.  We ran the same offense as varsity.  Two of those coaches were D. Palmer (current Graham DC) and Jeff Tarter.  Fast forward to RV middle school, coached by dads whose kids are the starting WRs and assisted by the starting QB's dad.  75% of the team were hold-backs and the coaches only coached this year and won't be back next year.   The offense was designed and centered around their kids.  Meanwhile the 6th and 7th grade kids just lost a year in development because the majority of the team should have been FR this year. 

It looks like this is now the new norm. 

[tornado99 345]

7 minutes ago, SwvaOG said:

Folks, when I say that I haven't seen one open competition in Dickinson County, I'm not exaggerating.  This is part of the reason kids leave the sport.  It sounds like Richlands has the same daddy ball habits.  I was fortunate enough to play for Ansil Salyers growing up.  He was a lifelong miner and tobacco farmer and coached the Baptist Valley Tigers for decades.  You wanted to be QB?  You had to beat out the 6 other kids who wanted it, too.  No favorites, no dads/uncles getting in the way.  The leagues have to get back to this. 

I'll say it again.  The varsity HC has to take more control over the youth league and middle school programs.  Prime example, my middle school team was coached by four coaches who were all teachers, were all part of the greater varsity program and had zero kids playing on the team.  We ran the same offense as varsity.  Two of those coaches were D. Palmer (current Graham DC) and Jeff Tarter.  Fast forward to RV middle school, coached by dads whose kids are the starting WRs and assisted by the starting QB's dad.  75% of the team were hold-backs and the coaches only coached this year and won't be back next year.   The offense was designed and centered around their kids.  Meanwhile the 6th and 7th grade kids just lost a year in development because the majority of the team should have been FR this year. 

It looks like this is now the new norm. 

You brought up an excellent argument about erring on the side of numbers and players developed, besides the competition factor, and that is physical maturity. So many of the early starters or incumbents benefit from early puberty and/or at the middle school level multiplying the benefits by holding back. If I kid is a late bloomer that is fundamentally sound and stays interested, he may end up being the better player senior year than the one in 7th/8th grade.

[tbgfan 856]

12 minutes ago, SwvaOG said:

 I was fortunate enough to play for Ansil Salyers growing up.  He was a lifelong miner and tobacco farmer and coached the Baptist Valley Tigers for decades.  You wanted to be QB?  You had to beat out the 6 other kids who wanted it, too.  No favorites, no dads/uncles getting in the way.  The leagues have to get back to this. 

 

Mr. Sayers was a giant of a man.  My neighbor for years, and his kids my friends.  I can remember traveling down the valley and see the BV Tigers in the field practicing across from his house.   I have in my possession a beautiful carving of a boot he made,  given to me by his children after his death.  He and his wife were wonderful down-to-earth people.  Sadly he passed with ALS.  

[Wolf1207 239]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:11 PM, Duke2015 said:

As much fun we make about the number of coaches for Union most aren’t coaches just guys helping out so they can get in the game for free 

It’s an LPD thing.  See Clintwood teams in the late 2000’s early 2010’s.  

[Wolf1207 239]

1 hour ago, SwvaOG said:

Folks, when I say that I haven't seen one open competition in Dickinson County, I'm not exaggerating.  This is part of the reason kids leave the sport.  It sounds like Richlands has the same daddy ball habits.  I was fortunate enough to play for Ansil Salyers growing up.  He was a lifelong miner and tobacco farmer and coached the Baptist Valley Tigers for decades.  You wanted to be QB?  You had to beat out the 6 other kids who wanted it, too.  No favorites, no dads/uncles getting in the way.  The leagues have to get back to this. 

I'll say it again.  The varsity HC has to take more control over the youth league and middle school programs.  Prime example, my middle school team was coached by four coaches who were all teachers, were all part of the greater varsity program and had zero kids playing on the team.  We ran the same offense as varsity.  Two of those coaches were D. Palmer (current Graham DC) and Jeff Tarter.  Fast forward to RV middle school, coached by dads whose kids are the starting WRs and assisted by the starting QB's dad.  75% of the team were hold-backs and the coaches only coached this year and won't be back next year.   The offense was designed and centered around their kids.  Meanwhile the 6th and 7th grade kids just lost a year in development because the majority of the team should have been FR this year. 

It looks like this is now the new norm. 

This will not change in Dickenson County for a minimum of 4 more years. Especially since the entire school board and BOS was re-elected running unopposed.  
Only thing that’ll change it is if the superintendent’s husband doesn’t like what he sees in the field.  

[SwvaOG 601]

1 hour ago, tbgfan said:

Mr. Sayers was a giant of a man.  My neighbor for years, and his kids my friends.  I can remember traveling down the valley and see the BV Tigers in the field practicing across from his house.   I have in my possession a beautiful carving of a boot he made,  given to me by his children after his death.  He and his wife were wonderful down-to-earth people.  Sadly he passed with ALS.  

He made some tough kids and fielded some great football teams for sure.  Not one kid spoke when he was addressing us, the respect we had for that man. You had to be tough, we played in that field after it had been cut and I remember the stalks would cut you wide open if you hit them right. Every practice started with “To the fence”.  Man, I wonder how many miles I ran down to the fence and back.  Then you’d do six inches and you’d better be “beatin’ your belly” the whole time.  Lol.

What a privilege to be coached and taught by that man.  Some serious talent played in the valley….Larry Perry, Mike Compton, Bryian Beavers, and Gary Ward to name a few. It was a unique blend of Tazewell and Richlands kids.  I wouldn’t have traded that experience for playing for anyone else, including my own family.   

[SwvaOG 601]

29 minutes ago, Wolf1207 said:

This will not change in Dickenson County for a minimum of 4 more years. Especially since the entire school board and BOS was re-elected running unopposed.  
Only thing that’ll change it is if the superintendent’s husband doesn’t like what he sees in the field.  

Ummm….,what did he think about ending the season with three straight blowout loses? And the kids visibly showing disinterest?

[Tru Blue72 88]

Let me take you way back to years gone bye.  When I played little league we had four teams, Richlands Golden Eagles, Richlands Green Waves, Cedar Bluff Blue Devils, and the Jewell Ridge Red Raiders. I played for the Red Raiders and Jim Richardson along with Ben McFall were the coaches.  Both coaches were hard working coal miners and most if not all the fathers were coal miners.  Jim Richardson had sons that played, but there was never a difference made, he treated his sons like everyone else if not even harder.  We dressed on one end of the Jewell Ridge Coal Camp, near a water tank, in the same building as a bowling alley and resturant.  We jogged from that end of camp through the camp to a hard dirt practice field on the other end of camp near a cemetery.  After practice, we would have to jog back to the dressing room, and the coaches followed in vehicles to make sure we jogged all the way.  On game day, we would all ride in the back of pickup trucks to the Old Ernie Hicks stadium for the game.  I thank God all the players had these coaches to teach us the game and to help us understand that it was just a game.  They taught fundamentally sound football, with tacking and blocking practice every day, and they demanded respect by showing all the players respect.  If the coaches we are seeing today were as tough as these two guys, I think we would see a big difference in the players that reach High School.

I know that everyone says we live in different times, and I get that somewhat, but just because we live in this time should not be a reason to throw discipline out the window and coddle young people from fear of hurting someone's feelings.  There is such a thing as tough love and that's what we received when I was young.  If you got out of line with the rules, you were strickly corrected, but in a healthy and respectful way.  My generation had our backsides warmed up many times and if we got out of line on the football field or with the coaches, we had to face our parents when we got home. Believe me, I would much rather had taken a good talking to from my coach as a good old fashion butt whipping from my parents.

[tornado99 345]

15 minutes ago, Tru Blue72 said:

Let me take you way back to years gone bye.  When I played little league we had four teams, Richlands Golden Eagles, Richlands Green Waves, Cedar Bluff Blue Devils, and the Jewell Ridge Red Raiders. I played for the Red Raiders and Jim Richardson along with Ben McFall were the coaches.  Both coaches were hard working coal miners and most if not all the fathers were coal miners.  Jim Richardson had sons that played, but there was never a difference made, he treated his sons like everyone else if not even harder.  We dressed on one end of the Jewell Ridge Coal Camp, near a water tank, in the same building as a bowling alley and resturant.  We jogged from that end of camp through the camp to a hard dirt practice field on the other end of camp near a cemetery.  After practice, we would have to jog back to the dressing room, and the coaches followed in vehicles to make sure we jogged all the way.  On game day, we would all ride in the back of pickup trucks to the Old Ernie Hicks stadium for the game.  I thank God all the players had these coaches to teach us the game and to help us understand that it was just a game.  They taught fundamentally sound football, with tacking and blocking practice every day, and they demanded respect by showing all the players respect.  If the coaches we are seeing today were as tough as these two guys, I think we would see a big difference in the players that reach High School.

I know that everyone says we live in different times, and I get that somewhat, but just because we live in this time should not be a reason to throw discipline out the window and coddle young people from fear of hurting someone's feelings.  There is such a thing as tough love and that's what we received when I was young.  If you got out of line with the rules, you were strickly corrected, but in a healthy and respectful way.  My generation had our backsides warmed up many times and if we got out of line on the football field or with the coaches, we had to face our parents when we got home. Believe me, I would much rather had taken a good talking to from my coach as a good old fashion butt whipping from my parents.

I appreciate this perspective, and long for those times. Mine was somewhat different, but no less impactful. There were 5 teams: Richlands Green Wave, Richlands Redskins, Raven Crimson Tide, Cedar Bluff Blue Devils, and Baptist Valley Tigers. I was a Green Wave. Our coaches were young guys that were recent graduates. Chris Grinstead, Kelly Grinstead, and Scott Bumgarner. They taught fundamentals, and discipline. The biggest impact for me was it being an important part of a greater relationship. I learned the Lord’s Prayer, not in church, but as a result of those games or practices where it was recited, and I was embarrassed for not knowing it initially.

Some coaches probably never realize the impact made off the field.

[cityofRaven 2,450]

Long live RCT!

[SwvaOG 601]

1 hour ago, cityofRaven said:

Long live RCT!

Baptist Valley Tiger til I die.  We'll see you sumbitches the 5th and 10th game of the season!

[SwvaOG 601]

3 hours ago, tornado99 said:

I appreciate this perspective, and long for those times. Mine was somewhat different, but no less impactful. There were 5 teams: Richlands Green Wave, Richlands Redskins, Raven Crimson Tide, Cedar Bluff Blue Devils, and Baptist Valley Tigers. I was a Green Wave. Our coaches were young guys that were recent graduates. Chris Grinstead, Kelly Grinstead, and Scott Bumgarner. They taught fundamentals, and discipline. The biggest impact for me was it being an important part of a greater relationship. I learned the Lord’s Prayer, not in church, but as a result of those games or practices where it was recited, and I was embarrassed for not knowing it initially.

Some coaches probably never realize the impact made off the field.

I played with Chris and Scott.  Chris was a BVT as well.  It was the same five teams when I played in the early-mid '80's.  The battle with Raven almost always decided the championship.  Huge battles...usually a 12-6 or  6-0 type game. I remember my sixth grade year, which was supposed to be our last year as 7th graders played middle school, we finished second to Raven and we were crushed.  We lost the first game and then tied them the second.  But after the season, they opened the league back up to 7th graders and middle school was only 8th graders.  We went 10-0 and beat Raven 12-8 last game of the season to win it.  That team evidently produced quite a few starters for Richlands and Tazewell at the varsity level.  Great times.

[Tru Blue72 88]

I had grandsons playing for the final BVT team and they were pretty good.  That year they only had about 18 players and they played the Richlands Cowboys which probably had 40 to 50 players.  Those BV boys beat the Cowboys and the coch of the Cowboys cried that the BV players were all to old and should forfiet the victory.  After that BVT was no more.

BTW the Cowboys coach was in charge of the program, imagine that, and if I'm not mistaken the same thing happened to the RCT program.

[jeffro 30]

3 hours ago, SwvaOG said:

I played with Chris and Scott.  Chris was a BVT as well.  It was the same five teams when I played in the early-mid '80's.  The battle with Raven almost always decided the championship.  Huge battles...usually a 12-6 or  6-0 type game. I remember my sixth grade year, which was supposed to be our last year as 7th graders played middle school, we finished second to Raven and we were crushed.  We lost the first game and then tied them the second.  But after the season, they opened the league back up to 7th graders and middle school was only 8th graders.  We went 10-0 and beat Raven 12-8 last game of the season to win it.  That team evidently produced quite a few starters for Richlands and Tazewell at the varsity level.  Great times.

Raven Crimson Tide Alumni here, under the great Rocky Horton.  no nepotism, no BS. best players earned their spot. Good old days

[Duke2015 451]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:05 PM, Ryan4VT said:

That mammoth had nearly 450 replies and lasted for nearly 8 months haha. That will be hard to beat. 

Half way there we can do it 

[TnT+h 9]

So when will they start interviewing? Sounds like with the right hire they could be firing on all cylinders in a couple of years. I love hearing about the good ol days - sure sounds like a great place to grow up and play!