Taylor stepping down at Lebanon

[swvafbrespect 67]

WE live in a sad time. Unrealistic expectations and belief of a D1 player. Most colleges today have a recruiting coach.......for their own players to make sure they don't leave!

[sixcat 2,919]

2 hours ago, sixcat said:

On this board, we often discus how kids today are just different than they were in previous generations. I don't think anyone here will argue against that point.

The same can be said for the adults in the room. Which is something we rarely, if ever, discuss. Could you imagine for a second, administrators interviewing Phil Robbins, Joel Hicks, Willis White, Norm Lineburg, or Robert Casto based on the whims of a 16 year old kid and his overzealous father?

I think my original post might be getting misunderstood somewhat. I'll attempt to clarify in simpler terms. 

Would coaches of past generations (70's, 80's, 90's) have been interviewed for open coaching positions based on what a 16 year old kid and his father wanted?

I think administrators back then would have told the kid and his dad to piss off.

 

[tornado99 345]

2 hours ago, sixcat said:

I think my original post might be getting misunderstood somewhat. I'll attempt to clarify in simpler terms. 

Would coaches of past generations (70's, 80's, 90's) have been interviewed for open coaching positions based on what a 16 year old kid and his father wanted?

I think administrators back then would have told the kid and his dad to piss off.

 

I agree. That’s a great example of how things have changed. I guess a more appropriate response would be, they didn’t have to for a variety of reasons. It’s now a year-round commitment where job security is more closely related to results. Generally, unless results were terrible, you could retire from those positions.

Now, the individual athlete has more power than authority and the collective. A scenario that seems to compromise both sides of the fence is creating all-star teams.

[SwvaOG 601]

The pendulum swings too far both ways.  I would not want to go back to the 70's type coaching.  To be brutally honest, a lot of damn good kids were "run" off for a myriad of bad reasons.  Looking back at that era, it was complete inflexibility and kids had no options.  Now, the kids have too much influence and coaches are too beholden to the parents in a hope of retaining talent. 

Be consistent, fair and coach up and develop your kids.  Some will leave, it happens.  Stay the course. If this guy was hired simply because a kid liked him, it will work itself out.  

 

[sixcat 2,919]

19 minutes ago, SwvaOG said:

The pendulum swings too far both ways.  I would not want to go back to the 70's type coaching.  To be brutally honest, a lot of damn good kids were "run" off for a myriad of bad reasons.  Looking back at that era, it was complete inflexibility and kids had no options.  Now, the kids have too much influence and coaches are too beholden to the parents in a hope of retaining talent. 

While I agree with everything above, it fails to fully account for the constant complaint older generations make against younger generations. Kids today are often criticized for being "soft" or "lazy." But the older generations raised them to be what they are. Now, that same older generation is basing hiring practices on what those "soft" or "lazy" kids like.

It's a nonsensical cycle that is spinning out of control at this point. It likely contributes to why local programs that were once traditional powers, are anything but now.

[falconfan1 125]

Well who is the choice?

[Stelley 57]

44 minutes ago, falconfan1 said:

Well who is the choice?

Hunter Norris. An assistant at Castlewood last year

[Jags52 346]

21 hours ago, Stelley said:

Hunter Norris. An assistant at Castlewood last year

If he got it good for him! Good young coach IMO not enough young guys are getting a shot to run a program in this area. With the exception of Chilhowie no body has hired a head guy recently south of 40

[redtiger 1,740]

5 hours ago, Jags52 said:

If he got it good for him! Good young coach IMO not enough young guys are getting a shot to run a program in this area. With the exception of Chilhowie no body has hired a head guy recently south of 40

Its hard to have those legendary type coaches that have been with programs for 20+ years when schools are hiring coaches in their late 40s and 50s. Theres not much of a youth movement with coaches locally, not sure why

[sixcat 2,919]

21 minutes ago, redtiger said:

Theres not much of a youth movement with coaches locally, not sure why

Are there very many in that 20's to 30's age group to choose from?

It doesn't seem like a profession the younger generation is keen on getting involved in to me. Of the two jobs locally that were open after this fall, neither had an applicant under the age of 38. That 38 year old applicant landed one of those positions and turned 39 two weeks later.

[tornado99 345]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Are there very many in that 20's to 30's age group to choose from?

It doesn't seem like a profession the younger generation is keen on getting involved in to me. Of the two jobs locally that were open after this fall, neither had an applicant under the age of 38. That 38 year old applicant landed one of those positions and turned 39 two weeks later.

I think most in that age range are more wary of the required time commitment, combined with unrealistic expectations, and lack of security nowadays. If you want to raise a family, it’s much tougher now than in yesteryear. The stress and sacrifices are much greater with little increase in pay.

[sixcat 2,919]

5 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

I think most in that age range are more wary of the required time commitment, combined with unrealistic expectations, and lack of security nowadays. If you want to raise a family, it’s much tougher now than in yesteryear. The stress and sacrifices are much greater with little increase in pay.

Whatever the reason, I don't see very many 20-somethings hang around more than a few years before moving on to something else. Most of the ones I know have moved completely out of the school system as a whole. Graduate from college, teach/coach for three or four years, leave for something completely different.

Honest question; How much longer before athletics as a whole are dropped completely from public schools? We all know it's coming. It's just a matter of time.

[SwvaOG 601]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Whatever the reason, I don't see very many 20-somethings hang around more than a few years before moving on to something else. Most of the ones I know have moved completely out of the school system as a whole. Graduate from college, teach/coach for three or four years, leave for something completely different.

Honest question; How much longer before athletics as a whole are dropped completely from public schools? We all know it's coming. It's just a matter of time.

March 31st, 2032........but you didn't hear it from me.

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Honest question; How much longer before athletics as a whole are dropped completely from public schools? We all know it's coming. It's just a matter of time.

I think we are going to see a drop in public schools themselves and public education.  Going to see far more online stuff and private education from home groups, literally neighborhoods that have 4 or 5 people teaching the kids.  It's already happening.  What will slow this down somewhat is migration from Latin and Hispanic countries which have kept the public schools afloat in cities, but it's coming.  We will see it occurring first in suburban areas.  

Here's what to do if I were young again and I was young in 2024.  I take the GED in High School 2 weeks after I finish my sophomore year.  I then drop out of High School.  I simply quit.  I immediately enroll at the local community college, finish my 2 year degree at age 18, then transfer to a University and finish by 4 year degree when I'm 20, I have my degree.  If I want to be a Lawyer, I'm done at 23.  A physician, done at 24.  A pharmacist?  Done at 23.  Now, the downside of this is obviously social groups, peers in High School and all of a sudden you are gone at 16, but again.......for these home-schooled kids across the country, stop fooling around with standardized programs that you complete through grade 12.  Take a program where you can pass the GED and try to get that GED at age 16.  I know some kids when they graduate High School, they already have a good year of college done because of AP stuff and all of that, but that's a lot of work.  Too much work for my taste.   This route isn't for everyone, but if you have a good who isn't a social bug, he or she is homeschooled, and fits this mold, then it might be a good option, and there are lots of kids out there that are like this.  Especially in today's time where kids are connected seemingly more by technology than physically.

I would be a sorry guidance counselor in High School.  The principal would wonder why half the class is dropping out before their junior year.  I would be fired.

[sixcat 2,919]

6 minutes ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

I know some kids when they graduate High School, they already have a good year of college done because of AP stuff and all of that, but that's a lot of work

My daughter has 67 credit hours completed, taking 17 credit hours currently, and is in her second semester of college. She'll have 84 credit hours completed at the end of her first year of college. 

[1inStripes 932]

I would think Tanner Hall is probably the youngest coach prior to the hiring of Sturgill at Chilhowie and they are probably close in age.   Keith Warner may be the youngest before that in the immediate area.

[sup_rbeast 296]

8 hours ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said:

I think we are going to see a drop in public schools themselves and public education.  Going to see far more online stuff and private education from home groups, literally neighborhoods that have 4 or 5 people teaching the kids.  It's already happening.  What will slow this down somewhat is migration from Latin and Hispanic countries which have kept the public schools afloat in cities, but it's coming.  We will see it occurring first in suburban areas.  

Here's what to do if I were young again and I was young in 2024.  I take the GED in High School 2 weeks after I finish my sophomore year.  I then drop out of High School.  I simply quit.  I immediately enroll at the local community college, finish my 2 year degree at age 18, then transfer to a University and finish by 4 year degree when I'm 20, I have my degree.  If I want to be a Lawyer, I'm done at 23.  A physician, done at 24.  A pharmacist?  Done at 23.  Now, the downside of this is obviously social groups, peers in High School and all of a sudden you are gone at 16, but again.......for these home-schooled kids across the country, stop fooling around with standardized programs that you complete through grade 12.  Take a program where you can pass the GED and try to get that GED at age 16.  I know some kids when they graduate High School, they already have a good year of college done because of AP stuff and all of that, but that's a lot of work.  Too much work for my taste.   This route isn't for everyone, but if you have a good who isn't a social bug, he or she is homeschooled, and fits this mold, then it might be a good option, and there are lots of kids out there that are like this.  Especially in today's time where kids are connected seemingly more by technology than physically.

I would be a sorry guidance counselor in High School.  The principal would wonder why half the class is dropping out before their junior year.  I would be fired.

Thing is, state law now requires a student to get 13 years of public education before they can drop out. There are ways around having to do two years of college after high school though. Dual enrollment classes allowed my youngest daughter to graduate from MECC before she graduated from Union High School, which also resulted in a full ride to UVA in Charlottesville. Her entire education including books didn’t cost us a dime. Actually she had money from other scholarships and grants that allowed her to have living and spending money the entire 4 years she was there. (Technically 3 thanks to COVID). But back to the point, I’ve worked in the public school system for nearly 24 years, teaching everything from dual enrollment to ISAEP, computer based classes & GED, and believe me there are kids who would be better suited to be out of school at 16 for positive and negative reasons. That’s just not how the system works now. In top of that, it’s currently much easier to get a high school diploma than a GED. For one, the GED has been ramped up to include junior and senior level math skills. Also, all the other subject areas have included higher level knowledge over the past 8-10 years. For most high school kids incapable of getting a diploma, a GED is usually pretty much out of the question.  Now, responding to the reasons why it’s hard to get young people into coaching, I have some insight on that, too. When I started teaching in 2001, one of the main reasons I had decided to teach was to coach. That desire lasted 4 years. For one, if you divide up the compensation for the time you spend on a football staff, you make about 35 cents an hour. In top of that, unless you live in the community, you have late nights and early mornings. I used to get up at 6AM and get home about 10PM nightly. On game nights, 2-3AM was more like it. In addition to coaching as a varsity assistant, I was the head JV coach. So, on random Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, I would get home close to midnight. Then you have the parents, 50% or so who think their kid can be or already is a D1 prospect. You combine that with your duties as a teacher, and it leaves you with no home life. If you have kids, that’s not something you want to sacrifice to that extent. Four years of that was plenty for me, but had the HC I was working under kept going, I would’ve wanted to do the same because as a staff we had practically built a team from the ground up into a playoff team.  Looking back though, I’m glad I got out when I did because it led to other after school opportunities like Jail GED, night school, homebound, etc that actually compensated you for your work to the tune of $25 per hour. During a given year, I actually made double doing after school programs than I did coaching both football and track. So, the bottom line is this: for most young people coming in as teachers, coaching just isn’t worth the time and effort, especially with the changes in kids and parents over the last couple decades. When people say that kids don’t want to do the work required to be great, by and large they are correct. That’s no myth. There are several reasons for that, mostly all going back to politicians dipping their fingers into the educational process and unreasonable court rulings enabling and empowering parents to stir, but that’s another post for another day.

[BKFootball 28]

7 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

Thing is, state law now requires a student to get 13 years of public education before they can drop out. There are ways around having to do two years of college after high school though. Dual enrollment classes allowed my youngest daughter to graduate from MECC before she graduated from Union High School, which also resulted in a full ride to UVA in Charlottesville. Her entire education including books didn’t cost us a dime. Actually she had money from other scholarships and grants that allowed her to have living and spending money the entire 4 years she was there. (Technically 3 thanks to COVID). But back to the point, I’ve worked in the public school system for nearly 24 years, teaching everything from dual enrollment to ISAEP, computer based classes & GED, and believe me there are kids who would be better suited to be out of school at 16 for positive and negative reasons. That’s just not how the system works now. In top of that, it’s currently much easier to get a high school diploma than a GED. For one, the GED has been ramped up to include junior and senior level math skills. Also, all the other subject areas have included higher level knowledge over the past 8-10 years. For most high school kids incapable of getting a diploma, a GED is usually pretty much out of the question.  Now, responding to the reasons why it’s hard to get young people into coaching, I have some insight on that, too. When I started teaching in 2001, one of the main reasons I had decided to teach was to coach. That desire lasted 4 years. For one, if you divide up the compensation for the time you spend on a football staff, you make about 35 cents an hour. In top of that, unless you live in the community, you have late nights and early mornings. I used to get up at 6AM and get home about 10PM nightly. On game nights, 2-3AM was more like it. In addition to coaching as a varsity assistant, I was the head JV coach. So, on random Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, I would get home close to midnight. Then you have the parents, 50% or so who think their kid can be or already is a D1 prospect. You combine that with your duties as a teacher, and it leaves you with no home life. If you have kids, that’s not something you want to sacrifice to that extent. Four years of that was plenty for me, but had the HC I was working under kept going, I would’ve wanted to do the same because as a staff we had practically built a team from the ground up into a playoff team.  Looking back though, I’m glad I got out when I did because it led to other after school opportunities like Jail GED, night school, homebound, etc that actually compensated you for your work to the tune of $25 per hour. During a given year, I actually made double doing after school programs than I did coaching both football and track. So, the bottom line is this: for most young people coming in as teachers, coaching just isn’t worth the time and effort, especially with the changes in kids and parents over the last couple decades. When people say that kids don’t want to do the work required to be great, by and large they are correct. That’s no myth. There are several reasons for that, mostly all going back to politicians dipping their fingers into the educational process and unreasonable court rulings enabling and empowering parents to stir, but that’s another post for another day.

This is about the best way to put this that I seen so far is the headache worth the reward of being a coach.  It a true love for the sport and a competitive nature that makes a great coach in any sport it definitely not the money especially in southwest va.  Also a big set back is the guys that would or could possibly be great coaches have a hard time getting interviews be it lack of college education or not having away in the door.  So most young guys don't put in because they one don't know anyone or two education is lacking to be a teacher so the school can get a little more bang for there buck.  

[swvafbrespect 67]

The question for any job but especially coaching is why do you do it? I have seen a lot in my 60 years good and bad. The world has changed and in my opinion not for the better. So why do people coach? It has been discussed about older coaches and the new young bucks. Today is a different animal and some of our legendary coaches styles and attitudes would not get the admin support of old. I think we would be better off with the style of preparing our athletes for the tough world we live in and holding them accountable. But when the admin gives in the to pressures either from parents, central office or buddies that get in their ear it becomes more challenging for the young coaches. Have you read and seen videos of things that goes on at high school sporting events. It has become a crazy a world.

[redtiger 1,740]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:31 PM, tornado99 said:

I think most in that age range are more wary of the required time commitment, combined with unrealistic expectations, and lack of security nowadays. 

There was a time when you didn't have to move around too much as a High School football coach, not so now because a coaches life span seems to generally be shorter.

The expectations are definitely higher now at most places. High level championships are expected early and everyone thinks their kid is the next superstar because they were good in 7 on 7s.

With all sports becoming basically year round and the rat race to keep up with the Jones(even if it's not productive or really necessary) it can be very time consuming.

[Wolf1207 239]

1 hour ago, redtiger said:

There was a time when you didn't have to move around too much as a High School football coach, not so now because a coaches life span seems to generally be shorter.

The expectations are definitely higher now at most places. High level championships are expected early and everyone thinks their kid is the next superstar because they were good in 7 on 7s.

With all sports becoming basically year round and the rat race to keep up with the Jones(even if it's not productive or really necessary) it can be very time consuming.

From everything I’ve seen as an outsider, (no kids and not in the school system) the booster programs probably need to be revved up more so than they are not.  But that has its own unintended consequences for one making the coaches year round fund raisers. Like our members of Congress.

It’s just not a high school issue.  Good coaches are disappearing at the college level too.   

[sixcat 2,919]

9 hours ago, Wolf1207 said:

It’s just not a high school issue.  Good coaches are disappearing at the college level too.

I agree but not for the same reasons, I don't think. Especially in terms of football. Coaches used to cut their teeth in high school and college 20 years ago before making it to the NFL. Now, they grow into themselves as young assistants in the NFL. The average age of an NFL head coach in 2000 was 53.6. In 2024, that average is 46.1. That might not seem impressive but, it's quite the leap. 

Assistant coaches in the NFL is where the story really begins. The average age of an NFL assistant in 2000 was 50.3. In 2024, that average is 37.8!!!

Good coaches are disappearing from college but not disappearing in general. The good ones cut their teeth in the NFL now as opposed to the absolute train wreck the NCAA has become. I, for one, don't blame them. The NCAA has made such a mess of itself. 

[bucfan64 307]

HS Athletics is in a major transition period. The landscape is changing, with more private schools, homeschooling and online opportunities, student athletes are playing more "club" ball. As this continues, the prominence of certain clubs will gain in popularity and we will see more student/athletes forego playing for their respective public schools and start competing with club teams. 

 

I don't think athletics is  going away at the public HS level, but it is indeed changing. 

CURIOUS:

Where do you see HS Athletics 10 years from now?

[sixcat 2,919]

22 minutes ago, bucfan64 said:

CURIOUS:

Where do you see HS Athletics 10 years from now?

In my opinion, HS athletics is going to resemble Club Sports and/or Intermural Sports at the college level within the next few decades. The schools will provide space for the students to compete but nothing more, including coaches. Students will be responsible for paying their own freight and volunteers will coach. The competition level we have grown to expect at the high school level will transition to AAU type programs. High school athletics as we know them will be akin to what you see at your local recreation department.

That's my opinion but I think the evidence shows, we're already headed in that direction. I will use golf and tennis as an example of what football, basketball, baseball might resemble. Golf and tennis have almost exclusively moved over to the junior circuit similar to AAU over the past 30 years. Nobody in golf or tennis is recruited from the high school level to play in college. Recruiters go to USGA, AJGA, and USTA events. Not high school tournaments. 

It may take more than 10 years to fully get to that level but I think, in 10 years, we will have a much clearer picture of where we're headed.

Edit to add: When thinking about this, take yourself and everyone in your generation out of the equation. Try to think in terms of how young people think. They are the ones that will be in charge of these decisions a decade or two down the road. I don't like it but it is what it is. 

[SwvaOG 601]

As the political divides continues, and it will, the next battle ground is going to be homeschooling vs public schooling.  Currently, 20 states allow home-schooled kids to play high school sports (TN is one of them),  five states allow it with the approval of local districts, five allow it if the students are partially enrolled in a public school program (my preferred option) and 20 states bar home-schoolers from public high school sports (of course Virginia and WV are in this group).

Ask yourself, how many kids are only going to public schools so they can play sports?  It is quite a bit.  Now, the smart states will get in front of this early before a competing league is established.  The answer is to allow them to play as long as they are partially enrolled (which will allow the states to receive increased funding).  The backwards answer is the complete ban/bar which, of course, our state does.