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Low Numbers in HS Football

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8 hours ago, stu_bean said:

Thought I heard once upon a time that there could be an option to roll Graham into Tazewell and leave Richlands as is...Could have been just a thought someone had but the logistics of that make more sense than an east and west.

Recent discussions of having k-7 housed in each middle school.  8-12 at each high school.  Keeping all 3 High Schools and closing all elementary schools.  (leaving 7 total schools in the county including the vocational center.)  A couple of elementary schools closed last year, Tazewell County still has 7 elementary / primary schools, way too many.   Look for more to close in the near future. Unless a miracle happens and Amazon moves to Tazewell County.  TCounty is currently operating 14 schools.  Of course, this is a long range plan to happen over the next 15 to 20 years or so, if current factors don't change.

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On 7/8/2019 at 4:10 PM, redtiger said:

I think the smaller schools should look at it, mainly the Cumberland and Black Diamond schools. Schools like Lebanon are a different story, they've got around 500 students, they  would have no business playing 8 man ball with the schools -200.

 

Whats going on over there anyway?

Lebanon is one of the smaller 2A schools in the state when you look at the numbers. Our football facilities need major improvements including weight room. Our coaches are enthusiastic and do a good job with what we have.  Like other schools, football safety has become an issue. Parents and students are afraid of injuries, especially to the head. We also have many athletes who could play, but mainly focus on one sport. As a school we are competitive in everything except football. I've been told we have a solid group coming in from youth ball in a couple years, but we have to see how it translates. We have the athletes, just getting them in the field is the hard part. 

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Kids have a lot of options, a kid I know(great young man and a fine football player) hasn't played the past few years; he has a job, participates in the youth program for the sheriffs office, and the youth program for the fire dept. Thats 5 nights a week that hes busy. A lot of kids are working but kids have always worked, the thing is when enrollments were 20,30, 50% higher having kids working didnt hurt so bad, now those kids are really needed on the field. Its just the times.  

As far as 8 man, I know its not "real" football and I know the game is very much different but if im a kid from Rye Cove/Bland/Twin Valley and have the option of playing 11 man and getting the hell kicked out of me 5-6 times a season and having little success due to no fault of your own, or playing 8 man and being much more competitive which one I would rather do. And isint this really about the kids and whats best for them competitively?  

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23 minutes ago, Pioneer pride said:

Lebanon is one of the smaller 2A schools in the state when you look at the numbers. Our football facilities need major improvements including weight room. Our coaches are enthusiastic and do a good job with what we have.  Like other schools, football safety has become an issue. Parents and students are afraid of injuries, especially to the head. We also have many athletes who could play, but mainly focus on one sport. As a school we are competitive in everything except football. I've been told we have a solid group coming in from youth ball in a couple years, but we have to see how it translates. We have the athletes, just getting them in the field is the hard part. 

Wasnt trying to throw off on Lebanon, just a school their size in SWVA shouldn't have trouble fielding a team. Just curious to whats going on there specifically. The injury concern is ine facing every program in the country to some extent, so has focus on one sport. That doesnt explain(at least not to me) why a school with 500 kids cant get 30 from 10-12 to come out and play football. Neither does focusing on one sport, not at a school that size.

 

Its not been that long ago Lebanon was a force in Region D, playing for regional titles... well maybe it has been awhile, im getting old

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17 hours ago, Igor 5150 said:

8 man football is probably where we r headed in Va especially in SWVA the numbers r low due to so much talk lately of concussions&concussion sendrom thst kids r backing out of playing&parents arent letting them plus lots more kids 14+ are working jobs to help support their families and for themselves sad that we have come to this point these modern times there are already many many 7on 7camps so thatstendung to 8man as well its a shame football just isnt what it used to be 

Breath...... 😉 

 

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1 hour ago, redtiger said:

Wasnt trying to throw off on Lebanon, just a school their size in SWVA shouldn't have trouble fielding a team. Just curious to whats going on there specifically. The injury concern is ine facing every program in the country to some extent, so has focus on one sport. That doesnt explain(at least not to me) why a school with 500 kids cant get 30 from 10-12 to come out and play football. Neither does focusing on one sport, not at a school that size.

 

Its not been that long ago Lebanon was a force in Region D, playing for regional titles... well maybe it has been awhile, im getting old

Real enrollment more around 450 from what I’ve heard. Plus, a lot of athletes there specialize so if half of your top 20 athletes aren’t multi-sport then you have problems. Leb girls all pretty much play everything which accounts for the success in those sports. 

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20 hours ago, sixcat said:

What you're seeing differs from what I'm seeing, at least locally.  Kids are working jobs to offset the lack of family funds.  Many of these kids are my daughters age (14).  I see several Twin County (Galax, Grayson, Carroll) athletes working all over the place.  Some even work in the Christmas tree farms from daylight to dark.  Several of these kids forgo athletics when school starts back and keep the job to help the family.  

I had someone tell me recently, "fumes" hurt high school athletics more than any other single thing.  Gas fumes and perfumes!

 

I have seen that happen too and that is a just sad for the kids honestly. I think is good to have a summer job in high school but a 14-17 year old kid shouldn’t have to quit a sport to put food on the table. 

As far as fumes go those vape pens and juuls are probably the worst thing to happen to high school kids. You can’t keep them away from it 

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1 hour ago, Tigerman10 said:

Real enrollment more around 450 from what I’ve heard. Plus, a lot of athletes there specialize so if half of your top 20 athletes aren’t multi-sport then you have problems. Leb girls all pretty much play everything which accounts for the success in those sports. 

Lebanon has 8th grade in HS, last year we fielded a team by dressing freshman and didn't really play a JV schedule. Enrollment of 450 is very accurate, and your correct most of our better athletes specialize in one sport, especially our male athletes. If all our capable athletes played we would be very competitive in Football.  In all honesty Lebanon should be dropped to Single A. Which is not likely to happen. We would be much more competitive. I think our facilities play a factor as well in our ability to complete at a higher level. 

 

I would also argue we would have beat some teams we played early in the season last year had we played them later in the season. Our team improved quite a bit as the season went on. 

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54 minutes ago, Pioneer pride said:

Lebanon has 8th grade in HS, last year we fielded a team by dressing freshman and didn't really play a JV schedule. Enrollment of 450 is very accurate, and your correct most of our better athletes specialize in one sport, especially our male athletes. If all our capable athletes played we would be very competitive in Football.  In all honesty Lebanon should be dropped to Single A. Which is not likely to happen. We would be much more competitive. I think our facilities play a factor as well in our ability to complete at a higher level. 

 

I would also argue we would have beat some teams we played early in the season last year had we played them later in the season. Our team improved quite a bit as the season went on. 

So because you "can't compete" in football at the 2A level you should drop to 1A? You compete at the 2A level in Wrestling, Softball and Baseball... must be the great facilities that draw in the athletes there and not football. 

This is why no one ever takes Lebanon seriously in anything.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer pride said:

Lebanon has 8th grade in HS, last year we fielded a team by dressing freshman and didn't really play a JV schedule. Enrollment of 450 is very accurate, and your correct most of our better athletes specialize in one sport, especially our male athletes. If all our capable athletes played we would be very competitive in Football.  In all honesty Lebanon should be dropped to Single A. Which is not likely to happen. We would be much more competitive. I think our facilities play a factor as well in our ability to complete at a higher level. 

 

I would also argue we would have beat some teams we played early in the season last year had we played them later in the season. Our team improved quite a bit as the season went on. 

According to the VDOE website, Lebanon had 467 enrolled in grades 9-12 in 2018-2019.  The March 2018 VHSL ADM figures have Lebanaon at 503.  That puts Lebanon in a similar position to what Grayson County was in last year.  They were granted permission to drop to Class 1 as a result.  

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18 minutes ago, cityofRaven said:

So because you "can't compete" in football at the 2A level you should drop to 1A? You compete at the 2A level in Wrestling, Softball and Baseball... must be the great facilities that draw in the athletes there and not football. 

This is why no one ever takes Lebanon seriously in anything.

No, that has nothing to do with it. I understand schools can be weak in certain areas. All I was saying is our numbers justify such a move. Would we still potentially struggle in football? Yes, and I'm okay with it. 

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21 minutes ago, sixcat said:

According to the VDOE website, Lebanon had 467 enrolled in grades 9-12 in 2018-2019.  The March 2018 VHSL ADM figures have Lebanaon at 503.  That puts Lebanon in a similar position to what Grayson County was in last year.  They were granted permission to drop to Class 1 as a result.  

Exactly...will that happen ? Not sure, we will have to wait and see. 

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34 minutes ago, cityofRaven said:

So because you "can't compete" in football at the 2A level you should drop to 1A? You compete at the 2A level in Wrestling, Softball and Baseball... must be the great facilities that draw in the athletes there and not football. 

This is why no one ever takes Lebanon seriously in anything.

Truth be told Lebanon would likely have state championships in baseball and softball and probably a good shot at volleyball and girls basketball last year if they were single A. 

 

Enrollment is a funny thing. Best thing is to be one of the larger schools in a classification obviously, which is why schools on the cusp do so much finagling to keep their numbers down

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40 minutes ago, Tigerman10 said:

Truth be told Lebanon would likely have state championships in baseball and softball and probably a good shot at volleyball and girls basketball last year if they were single A. 

 

Enrollment is a funny thing. Best thing is to be one of the larger schools in a classification obviously, which is why schools on the cusp do so much finagling to keep their numbers down

I agree, we definitely would have won it baseball and very possibly softball..we won the season series against Richland's and probably would have beat them in the final had we made it. We matched up well with them. I'm not sure about Volleyball but again we would have had a chance. Our football team would have won at least 2 to 3 more games with a Single A schedule. 

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Just now, Pioneer pride said:

I agree, we definitely would have won it baseball and very possibly softball..we won the season series against Richland's and probably would have beat them in the final had we made it. We matched up well with them. I'm not sure about Volleyball but again we would have had a chance, same goes for girls basketball. Our football team would have won at least 2 to 3 more games with a Single A schedule. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Pioneer pride said:

I agree, we definitely would have won it baseball and very possibly softball..we won the season series against Richland's and probably would have beat them in the final had we made it. We matched up well with them. I'm not sure about Volleyball but again we would have had a chance. Our football team would have won at least 2 to 3 more games with a Single A schedule. 

Not so sure about beating Richlands in the softball final, but the two teams were pretty evenly matched. 

We were state runner up in girls basketball and Lebanon beat us handily. They could have beaten PM. 

Leb football isn’t just a numbers problem-but it definitely is a factor. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 1:31 PM, stu_bean said:

Thought I heard once upon a time that there could be an option to roll Graham into Tazewell and leave Richlands as is...Could have been just a thought someone had but the logistics of that make more sense than an east and west.

You're correct in your analogy, but there have been several ideals kicked around and so far nothing has come to fruition, but if student numbers keep going down, something will give.  

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15 minutes ago, TwhscoachT said:

How is the real enrollment only 450? Adm is based on the numbers provided by the principal. There is no middle ground to this, a lot of fudging (Riverheads mythical 474) but no gray area. 

I can't speak for Lebanon.  In the case of Grayson County, the ADM figures changed dramatically halfway through the 2-year cycle.  Grayson's March 31, 2018 ADM figure was 489.  They lost around 45 students by the end of the 2018 school year dropping them well under the 475 cutoff for Class 1.  It's my understanding, Grayson's enrollment has dropped even further since last summer.

I suspect Lebanon is in a very similar situation. 

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This is par for the course for Lebanon. Has anyone else in the state switched classifications and districts as much as Lebanon?

They go down to the Hogo for a while, beat up on Holston and Northwood for a while, build up their confidence and then move again, either back to the SWD or the now defunct Clinch Mountain. 

You have a damn Pal's and Tokyo, get over the fact that your football team isn't very good anymore and celebrate the good!

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1 hour ago, cityofRaven said:

This is par for the course for Lebanon. Has anyone else in the state switched classifications and districts as much as Lebanon?

They go down to the Hogo for a while, beat up on Holston and Northwood for a while, build up their confidence and then move again, either back to the SWD or the now defunct Clinch Mountain. 

You have a damn Pal's and Tokyo, get over the fact that your football team isn't very good anymore and celebrate the good!

You completely neglected the Bonanza, one of the proud 21 remaining restaurants in the chain.  The meat loaf and rolls alone are reason to party.

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3 hours ago, cityofRaven said:

They go down to the Hogo for a while, beat up on Holston and Northwood for a while, build up their confidence and then move again, either back to the SWD or the now defunct Clinch Mountain. 

How dare they? I'm glad that no team I would support would do something like that. 

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11 hours ago, cityofRaven said:
10 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

You completely neglected the Bonanza, one of the proud 21 remaining restaurants in the chain.  The meat loaf and rolls alone are reason to party.

You have a damn Pal's and Tokyo, get over the fact that your football team isn't very good anymore and celebrate the good!

Even in the 70s and 80s, they lived it up. 

When the rest of us were at home eating red dogs with chili sauce, the folks in Lebanon dined on world famous foot longs at their new Weiner King franchise.

Clearly there's a lack of appreciation by locals for that gastronomic nirvana that is Lebanon.

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