2023 scrims/jams/bg's

[sixcat 2,919]

2 minutes ago, stu_bean said:

I thought only Grayson won the appeal.  Know Riverheads got denied to move down.  Didn't GW get denied as well?

https://www.vhsl.org/alignment/alignmentdistrictregion-table/

Click the green button

[stu_bean 1,058]

7 minutes ago, sixcat said:

https://www.vhsl.org/alignment/alignmentdistrictregion-table/

Click the green button

Maybe I do remember that now.  Yeah there was an error in reporting on a spreadsheet and they granted it based off of that error.

I was fine with that, Grayson move still ticks me off though...

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

The sky is falling! I begrudge society. I begrudge begrudgement itself. I got a friend nicknamed 'grudgy', and I begrudge that sorry SOB!

Football is back boys!. Can't wait! Love reading you guys comments and insights.

[chipinbogey 150]

Ahhh, temps and humidity are high, pads are popping after school, and ADM is being discussed ad nauseum. I guess I better go start packing my gear and testing radios because football time in SWVA is here. LET'S GO!

[tornado99 345]

Not bashing the system, since there is no perfect system, but in the age of transfers and recruiting, those at the upper enrollment levels can and probably use that fact as a bargaining chip to entice more talent and magnify the advantages of already being a big fish in a small pond.

Looking forward to seeing what happens on  Friday (or Thursday/Saturday) nights. 

It is fun discussing the the off the field factors that are often more influential than the X’s and O’s during the offseason to whet the appetite.

[Mountain Football 1,532]

1 hour ago, tornado99 said:

This post blew up! For my take, I strongly echo the sentiments UVAObserver and stu_bean. Maybe it’s an age thing. A couple of points I would like to refute somewhat, but for comparison’s sake, I will share my thoughts and experience as a Richlands fan. 
From 1997-2008, I am not aware of any active recruiting by the Blues. The 3 finals appearances 2005, 2006, and 2007, with the title in 2006 to my knowledge consisted of mostly hard-working, homegrown Richlands kids. I maybe naive, but I take a lot of pride in the accomplishments of those kids, and coaches alike. While the 2008 team was comparably short on talent, that was one of the best coaching jobs In winning the Region, beating a much more talented Tazewell team twice, and eventually losing big to a much more talented Logan Thomas-led Brookeville team. 
In 2009, that all began to change with the perceived recruiting. I can’t speak to parents doing what is best for their kids, which is honorable in the intention, but I personally felt an undercurrent of disappointment. I realize that there are important values of competing, but I couldn’t help but feel compassion for some of the kids, essentially replaced by what felt like mercenaries. While often results on the field reflected success, I felt and witnessed a perceived decline in discipline and work in favor of seeking talent. I have no idea if the long-term ramifications explain what Richlands is experiencing now or this is just a reflection of the current talent and return to normalcy. 
As most players are concerned, I imagine some of the harder working glue guys (a term from Never Settle by Marty Smith-excellent read) would become discouraged by this pattern. Personally, I would feel a sense of resentment if the opportunity I had worked so hard for, was taken away all of a sudden by someone brought in and I observed to be lazy, but talented. I was blessed to be a part of the era where hard work and dedication seemingly was rewarded by playing time. In fact, I carry that and other lessons from my football experience. 
The taint of recruiting for me carries a stigma of manipulating a system to tilt the playing field for instant results. It seems contradictory to playing, working, and sacrificing together as a team or community to achieve a common goal.

As stated, by UVA, it’s here. If you hope to compete you have to embrace or begrudgingly accept it.

Thank goodness simply for the game of football and those players and coaches that work so hard to teach those lessons and virtues that apply to life outside of football. 
 

This post isn’t meant as a criticism, but primarily an opinion, perspective, and analysis of a practice that is now more widespread. 

Out of reactions for the day but this is it. Well said.

[TripleThreat 19]

47 minutes ago, sixcat said:

First, the "hard cap" of 475 was the old ADM system that expired in June. The new ADM system that began July 1, which doesn't account for the senior class of any school, is 350. Second, it can't be considered a "hard cap" when schools like Grayson and George Wythe are able to successfully appeal to play down while having an ADM figure of greater than 350. Something Riverheads was successful in doing a decade ago under the old ADM system.

1. Grayson - 364
2. George Wythe - 353
3. Westmoreland - 348
4. Buffalo Gap - 348
5. Fort Chiswell - 341
6. Brunswick - 324
7. Giles - 323
8. Rappahannock - 316
9. Chilhowie - 315
10. Northampton - 313
11. Cumberland - 304
12. Altavista - 295
13. Galax - 290
14. Patrick Henry GS - 289
15. Essex - 284

 

For reference, the following schools are Class 2 with smaller enrollments than Grayson County.

Mountain View - 355
Riverheads - 357
James River (Buchannan) - 359
Randolph Henry - 360
Lebanon - 363

 

So PH and Chilhowie are the only ones on this list south of GW. Seems like that would give them a distinct advantage at least locally. 

[TripleThreat 19]

22 hours ago, Hokie Bound said:

PH has had a great run of athletes over the past decade and it looks like its going to continue for awhile. Plus when the VHSL put a hard cap of 475 for Class 1 it left PH as one of the state's largest schools in that classification which has led to success for the Rebels and it continues to carry on. 

Even though the numbers are different seems like the point still stands. PH remains one of the largest schools in Class 1. 

[sixcat 2,919]

51 minutes ago, stu_bean said:

Yeah there was an error in reporting on a spreadsheet and they granted it based off of that error.

The rumor was, George Wythe ADM leading to them originally falling into Class 2 was a reporting error on a spreadsheet. But I would have thought that would have been corrected by now with the accurate number. Since that number was, and still is, 353, I have to assume the rumors were false and the GW appeal to move down into Class 1 was granted. 

I don't care one way or the other. GW has proven to be competitive over the years regardless of classification. Grayson, not so much, but maybe this will be their year. The folks in Independence certainly believe that to be the case. We'll see. 

[tornado99 345]

Come to think of it, I think during Richlands latter glory years, we benefited from reclassification from Division 4 to 3, which was a rightful move in my opinion.
 

The old divisional system was a travesty that strongly favored more populated areas. Riverheads won the Division 1 state title while having a greater enrollment than both Division 2 finalists, Honaker and King William in the old system.

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

22 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Come to think of it, I think during Richlands latter glory years, we benefited from reclassification from Division 4 to 3, which was a rightful move in my opinion.
 

The old divisional system was a travesty that strongly favored more populated areas. Riverheads won the Division 1 state title while having a greater enrollment than both Division 2 finalists, Honaker and King William in the old system.

2004 Richlands loss to Salem in the state playoffs comes to mind. If not Div 4, or modern day Class 4, Richlands would have had a shot at Gretna. Gretna was solid those years and beat Poqouson in the state title game in Div 3 (modern day Class 3) but Richlands would have had a shot because their lineplay would have given them a chance against what was a great Gretna team.

[sixcat 2,919]

21 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Riverheads won the Division 1 state title while having a greater enrollment than both Division 2 finalists, Honaker and King William in the old system.

IIRC, Manassas Park lost the D1 state championship to Parry McCluer in 1986 with an enrollment in the 800's. William Monroe beat Parry McCluer in 1991 for the D1 state championship with an enrollment in the 700's.

My former boss was from Buena Vista so, I used to hear all about it. 

[1inStripes 932]

Then came the two years Rye Cove was forced into D2 with an ADM of like 198 I think it was.  I believe also in basketball one year in the old system Nelson County won 1A and was larger than both Gate City and GW who played in the D2 finals.

[Duke2015 451]

Is Union scrimmaging Friday???  Just wondering because I was kinda wanting to go see Elizabethon and Science Hill 

[Union_Fan 2,155]

30 minutes ago, Duke2015 said:

Is Union scrimmaging Friday???  Just wondering because I was kinda wanting to go see Elizabethon and Science Hill 

Yes. At George Wythe HS. Supposed to have Northside there as well.

[Duke2015 451]

19 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Yes. At George Wythe HS. Supposed to have Northside there as well.

Guess I’ll go check out Science Hill then.  Do a little scouting lol!!!

[Union_Fan 2,155]

1 minute ago, Duke2015 said:

Guess I’ll go check out Science Hill then.  Do a little scouting lol!!!

Let us know if which play we should run 45 times to win. Oh, and should we run it to the left or right? Haha 

[Duke2015 451]

Just now, Union_Fan said:

Let us know if which play we should run 45 times to win. Oh, and should we run it to the left or right? Haha 

Haven’t you heard we’re gonna pass 50 times a game this season, well at least try to pass and then the QB will take off running for his life 

[SwvaOG 601]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:44 AM, tornado99 said:

This post blew up! For my take, I strongly echo the sentiments UVAObserver and stu_bean. Maybe it’s an age thing. A couple of points I would like to refute somewhat, but for comparison’s sake, I will share my thoughts and experience as a Richlands fan. 
From 1997-2008, I am not aware of any active recruiting by the Blues. The 3 finals appearances 2005, 2006, and 2007, with the title in 2006 to my knowledge consisted of mostly hard-working, homegrown Richlands kids. I maybe naive, but I take a lot of pride in the accomplishments of those kids, and coaches alike. While the 2008 team was comparably short on talent, that was one of the best coaching jobs In winning the Region, beating a much more talented Tazewell team twice, and eventually losing big to a much more talented Logan Thomas-led Brookeville team. 
In 2009, that all began to change with the perceived recruiting. I can’t speak to parents doing what is best for their kids, which is honorable in the intention, but I personally felt an undercurrent of disappointment. I realize that there are important values of competing, but I couldn’t help but feel compassion for some of the kids, essentially replaced by what felt like mercenaries. While often results on the field reflected success, I felt and witnessed a perceived decline in discipline and work in favor of seeking talent. I have no idea if the long-term ramifications explain what Richlands is experiencing now or this is just a reflection of the current talent and return to normalcy. 
As most players are concerned, I imagine some of the harder working glue guys (a term from Never Settle by Marty Smith-excellent read) would become discouraged by this pattern. Personally, I would feel a sense of resentment if the opportunity I had worked so hard for, was taken away all of a sudden by someone brought in and I observed to be lazy, but talented. I was blessed to be a part of the era where hard work and dedication seemingly was rewarded by playing time. In fact, I carry that and other lessons from my football experience. 
The taint of recruiting for me carries a stigma of manipulating a system to tilt the playing field for instant results. It seems contradictory to playing, working, and sacrificing together as a team or community to achieve a common goal.

As stated, by UVA, it’s here. If you hope to compete you have to embrace or begrudgingly accept it.

Thank goodness simply for the game of football and those players and coaches that work so hard to teach those lessons and virtues that apply to life outside of football. 
 

This post isn’t meant as a criticism, but primarily an opinion, perspective, and analysis of a practice that is now more widespread. 

I can share our experiences with this subject since we dealt with it as players and as parents.  My brother and I grew up as the "last house in Bandy" a coal mining camp that was zoned for Richlands.  Literally, the next house (2 miles away) was in the Amanote mining camp and zoned for Tazewell.  My dad remodeled houses and did a lot of work around Tazewell and he was approached frequently about getting his boys to play for Tazewell.  Jokes about "getting his boys some spending money" were mentioned and I'm sure some were serious.  But, nothing serious came of it and I think that was because of my brother's burning hatred for the Bulldogs. Lol.  Ironically, he told me recently that he wished he went to Tazewell because they would have utilized him better.  To be honest, they probably would have utilized me better as well.  

Now, with my son, we were approached by five separate programs the summer before his senior year once RV ran off the head coach and was in turmoil again.  I personally fielded calls from four different coaches gauging our interest.  Housing was mentioned but never money...but I never pressed that issue so who's to say if it wouldn't have happened.  So, it happens and is still happening; however, each coach stated that a parent/parents would have to relocate....which, makes it perfectly legal in my eyes. I work remotely so "getting you a job" never came up. 

Ironically, since we are spilling tea, we reached out to my alma mater as soon as we moved back to the area in 2018 asking about having my boys play at Ernie Hicks.  Coach Mance never returned my texts/calls nor anyone else.  I had some of my former teammates ask me after the RIchlands/Ridgeview playoff game in 2021 why my kid always balled out so hard against RIchlands and if that was weird for me.   I told them not at all and that for three years I fed the chip on his shoulder that Richlands didn't want him and didn't think he was good enough to play for them and they thought he wasn't as good as Sage Webb. Once he found out that Richlands was on the schedule his junior year and he would be playing at Ernie Hicks....he was over the moon excited, so I watched that game and the playoff game in the visitor's section for the first time ever. 

Life is weird, man.  I will say that if we had it to do over, we would have definitely left for a better opportunity.  I didn't used to be, but I'm now firmly in the camp of "you have to do what is best for your kid." However, you HAVE to be realistic about their abilities and talent...which about 80% of parents simply aren't.  You also need to have legit reasons and not enough playing time isn't one of them.  For us, it was a lack of competitive professionalism/passion with the football program, constant turn-over and chaos, extreme nepotism and no effort to promote kids in the recruiting process (with the exception of a couple of positional coaches).  To be perfectly blunt, loyalty to the program and team absolutely cost us next level/recruiting opportunities.  

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by SwvaOG
Added additional thoughts.

[tornado99 345]

Thanks for sharing this unique perspective. 

[Queue 20]

13 hours ago, sixcat said:

 

 

 

Now do Gate City!!

 

 

[Comegetsum 18]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:34 PM, UVAObserver said:

Saying that Graham recruits players from other schools is not a “snide comment”.  It’s a statement of fact.  That is something that is objectively, actively happening.  There are people who have observed it while it was happening, and likely have saved the evidence.  That may well not be the case for this young man, but it certainly has been for many others, and it’s gonna garner this reaction from the non-Graham contingency here.  Hammer and nail, even if it’s not a nail this time.
 

Recruiting a player in that manner is in direct contradiction to several VHSL rules.  Contrary to commonly held belief around these parts, not every school does it.  When some schools do, and some schools do not, this creates a legitimately uneven and unjust playing field.  It violates not only the written rule, but the spirit of fair competition.
 

I know that at the professional and collegiate level, the old adage “If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’…” often rings true.  There are billions (professional) and millions (collegiate) of dollars in economies across the nation at stake.  The difference in a college football team going 7-5 and 5-7 can make the difference in whether Ma and Pa have to close down the family restaurant.  That I understand and accept begrudgingly.  
 

This is different.  This is high school (amateur) athletics involving 14-18 year-old legal minors and very young adults.  Livelihoods are not on the line at the expense of a game played by children.  It’s not “jealousy”…it’s disgust and pity that adults care enough about a game played by children to circumvent clear and concise rules instituted by the sport’s governing body to ensure fairness and integrity.  That’s what’s turning people off.  That’s why GMan left this site.  


It absolutely happened at Richlands from 2000-2018.  Mance’s staff was far more discreet about it, but it absolutely happened.  When a double-digit percentage of the players’ dads are employed by the same employer, it’s not hard to connect the dot.  But when confronted, Richlands’ folks (to their credit) didn’t back down from the fact.  They didn’t make excuses for it, or try to paint it as some “jealous” conspiracy, or try to cache it in some “The Palmer Way” BS.  Folks would have a lot more respect for this operation if there was just more intellectual honesty about it.  “Yeah, we’re doing it.  We’re not the first nor the last.  Nothing stopping you from doing it too.”  I might ethically disagree with that, but I can’t really counter it or force my opinion onto the person saying that.  Speaking of…

 

You want to talk about “chastised”?  What the Graham “faithful” and “grateful”, including yourself, did to me last year went far beyond chastising.  I was doxxed (admittedly I made it fairly easy, but still) and had legitimate threats made upon my employment for expressing a private opinion that I earned by receiving a diploma from the school.  I should have used far better discretion in my judgment in stating my sincerely-held belief, and I have apologized publicly and privately for that to those whose opinion I value and those who I hurt.  
 

Nevertheless, seeing you *of all people* take TBG’s very tame admonition as “chastising” just gobsmacks me.  Not everything is some grandiose scheme of jealousy or plot to hurt your beloved G-Men.  I should say “our” beloved G-Men, lest you forget that I’ve got the same credentials you do.  Put away the tinfoil and hatred and just enjoy life and sport, man.  Life’s so much better when you do.

The QB for the bulldogs would come to Graham too if he thought could start!! 

[KW23 10]

Anyone know how Grundy will be this year?  That's one team I haven't heard anything about so far this offseason

[redtiger 1,740]

5 hours ago, KW23 said:

Anyone know how Grundy will be this year?  That's one team I haven't heard anything about so far this offseason

I think they graduated a lot. They were region champs last season but weren't a great team, as evidenced by their half state performance 

[sixcat 2,919]

9 hours ago, Queue said:

Now do Gate City!!