Why are numbers so low?

[TnT+h 9]

Looked at max preps and many rosters are very small, SWVA has always loved football , What’s going on?

[Gridiron60 2,555]

10 minutes ago, TnT+h said:

Looked at max preps and many rosters are very small, SWVA has always loved football , What’s going on?

MaxPreps is not reliable but population generally speaking is getting less in this area. 

[KW23 10]

Kids are also getting soft...concussion studies... ETC...

[Real Sasquatch 1,865]

Never trust maxpreps.

[Duke2015 451]

54 minutes ago, Gridiron60 said:

MaxPreps is not reliable but population generally speaking is getting less in this area. 

Exactly I’d say in 15 years Union will be 1a.  McDonald’s and Hardee’s doesn’t seem to be keeping the graduates from leaving the area lol!!!  Fingers crossed for a super wal-mart 

[Jags52 346]

Kids would rather flip burgers than play football because vapes arnt cheap

[UnionGuy2017 182]

12 minutes ago, Duke2015 said:

Exactly I’d say in 15 years Union will be 1a.  McDonald’s and Hardee’s doesn’t seem to be keeping the graduates from leaving the area lol!!!  Fingers crossed for a super wal-mart 

My buddy’s wife teaches at the primary school and they talk to me all the time about how many kids are in the school. It’s insane. Where do these people come from??

[Wolf1207 239]

18 minutes ago, Duke2015 said:

Exactly I’d say in 15 years Union will be 1a.  McDonald’s and Hardee’s doesn’t seem to be keeping the graduates from leaving the area lol!!!  Fingers crossed for a super wal-mart 

I’d say most of 2D will be dropping down at some point.  

[JDHoss 249]

Declining enrollments, more entertainment options are just two of the driving factors. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of enrollment. Down here in South Florida, there are schools with enrollments of 3K+ that have 40-60 players on their roster. The game I went to last night, Treasure Coast (2,967 enrollment) had 54 players and Sanford Seminole (4,062 enrollment) had 62. 

[Duke2015 451]

2 minutes ago, JDHoss said:

Declining enrollments, more entertainment options are just two of the driving factors. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of enrollment. Down here in South Florida, there are schools with enrollments of 3K+ that have 40-60 players on their roster. The game I went to last night, Treasure Coast (2,967 enrollment) had 54 players and Sanford Seminole (4,062 enrollment) had 62. 

Only options here for kids are football X Box or partying 

[Stelley 57]

Prime example with Lebanon. The school is filled to the brim with athletes but no one wants to play football because of the lack of competence within the coaching staff

[SWVAgridiron 1,469]

Apparently everyone’s numbers are low because Graham recruits them all. Just a rumor. 

[bigcotton 40]

Times change. Alot of the younger generations prefer virtual entertainment to contact sports. Thats just how civilization works, what interested our fathers and grandfathers, don't always interest the children. And populations does continue to decline, there is not much to keep people here other than family.

[Pioneer 69]

15 hours ago, Stelley said:

Prime example with Lebanon. The school is filled to the brim with athletes but no one wants to play football because of the lack of competence within the coaching staff

Lebanon's issue comes down to administration hiring from within during the last couple coaching searches. They needed to hire someone from the outside. They had the candidates but chose not to. So they are reaping what they sowed. Nothing against the last 2 coaches. Both are good guys, but they needed to hire someone with a proven track record. Lebanon is going to continue to lose until the coaching is fixed. From the looks, im saying they finish 1-9, maybe 2-8. They will beat Castlewood. 

[Stelley 57]

2 hours ago, Pioneer said:

Lebanon's issue comes down to administration hiring from within during the last couple coaching searches. They needed to hire someone from the outside. They had the candidates but chose not to. So they are reaping what they sowed. Nothing against the last 2 coaches. Both are good guys, but they needed to hire someone with a proven track record. Lebanon is going to continue to lose until the coaching is fixed. From the looks, im saying they finish 1-9, maybe 2-8. They will beat Castlewood. 

It’s starting to look like Lebanon is just waiting for baseball season at this current moment. Volleyball team can’t even beat anyone either. The only team in the fall that is actually going to win something is the xc team

[Bluefield researcher 1,195]

I just don't hink that kids and parents want to make the time commitment that is needed. Remember. Back in our day the vast majority of players could walk to school and practice. That is not the case now. It creates expenses and time commitments that were not previously present for most players.

[Pioneer 69]

11 hours ago, Stelley said:

It’s starting to look like Lebanon is just waiting for baseball season at this current moment. Volleyball team can’t even beat anyone either. The only team in the fall that is actually going to win something is the xc team

They will be decent in basketball...maybe. 

[sixcat 2,919]

I can't speak for every community but locally, coaches demanding football be a year-round venture is taking a toll on participation. In one form or another, I work with several parents of players (and former players that have already quit) and they all tell the same tale.

[SwvaOG 601]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:08 PM, JDHoss said:

Declining enrollments, more entertainment options are just two of the driving factors. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of enrollment. Down here in South Florida, there are schools with enrollments of 3K+ that have 40-60 players on their roster. The game I went to last night, Treasure Coast (2,967 enrollment) had 54 players and Sanford Seminole (4,062 enrollment) had 62. 

Your situation is much different in that soccer and lacrosse have eaten into football numbers directly.  Additionally, the good baseball talent in FL aren't spending time on the football fields.  I coached youth in Florida and struggled to get kids while being surrounded by overflowing soccer fields.

I also think part of the problem is the brand of football this generation wants to play.  They want to play spread and pass-oriented offense.  The good athletes are often 6', 170 and don't want to be a Wing in a Wing-T.  They want to throw and catch the ball.  Gone are the days of Power-I and lining up and running your 5'10, 215 pocket muscle RB 25+ times a game.  Look at Honaker, Graham and Ridgeview and Union is going that way.  They, at least conceptually, are using their athletes.  In the past football didn't need the baseball and basketball players....they do now and need to promote a culture of multi-sport athletes.  A good AD goes a long way in smoothing this over.  It also helps if the head football coach isn't an ego-driven blow-hard and is open to "sharing" athletes during the winter and spring sports. 

[tornado99 345]

As for larger schools, I believe any size school can only support a certain number of kids (such as in FL), to have any reasonable expectation of playing time. 
 

I echo all of the other comments concerning SWVA, especially declining enrollment, other entertainment options, and culture. Many of these problems have been ongoing and have only accelerated in recent years. 

Recently, playing both ways has become a necessity. I agree with playing your stars both ways as well, especially during win or go home games. Also, wide open offenses are also more attractive to today’s athletes, even if sometimes the talent on the roster may not support that style of play. 
 

Going back to my first paragraph concerning playing time, during Richlands peak years I noticed more players often playing one way, resulting in a greater number of players participating and that depth wearing down opponents. I’m not certain which came first, the number of good athletes or the multiplication due to more players encouraged by appreciable playing time and the wide open spread offense; however, with that it seemed to translate to wins and consistently stacked rosters, both with (2009-2016) and without (1997-2008) transfers. 

[JDHoss 249]

10 hours ago, SwvaOG said:

Your situation is much different in that soccer and lacrosse have eaten into football numbers directly.  Additionally, the good baseball talent in FL aren't spending time on the football fields.  I coached youth in Florida and struggled to get kids while being surrounded by overflowing soccer fields.

I also think part of the problem is the brand of football this generation wants to play.  They want to play spread and pass-oriented offense.  The good athletes are often 6', 170 and don't want to be a Wing in a Wing-T.  They want to throw and catch the ball.  Gone are the days of Power-I and lining up and running your 5'10, 215 pocket muscle RB 25+ times a game.  Look at Honaker, Graham and Ridgeview and Union is going that way.  They, at least conceptually, are using their athletes.  In the past football didn't need the baseball and basketball players....they do now and need to promote a culture of multi-sport athletes.  A good AD goes a long way in smoothing this over.  It also helps if the head football coach isn't an ego-driven blow-hard and is open to "sharing" athletes during the winter and spring sports. 

Lacrosse and soccer (at the high school level) are winter sports down here, so they really shouldn't factor in. I'll give you baseball, as it's a year round sport and the local sports complexes have tons of baseball fields, with games going on all year. I think one thing that factors into it (as tornado99 pointed out) is that at the better programs, you might only see 50-60 players on a roster with an enrollment of 3K+, but every one of those players look like they belong on a football field. It's probably that some of these schools cut players. In addition, July workouts/7 on 7 and August practices are just brutal here in South Florida with the heat and humidity. I can walk outside at 9 AM and it's like opening an oven door. Still, you'll see some schools with enrollments between 1500 and 2000 that will have less than 40 players. 

[redtiger 1,740]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:01 AM, sixcat said:

I can't speak for every community but locally, coaches demanding football be a year-round venture is taking a toll on participation. In one form or another, I work with several parents of players (and former players that have already quit) and they all tell the same tale.

Im a firm believer that football practice, or practice for every sports shouldn't be a year round thing. The VHSL allowing it has virtually eliminated kids playing multiple sports and those that do end up grinding themselves to a frazzle, and I wonder if its worth it. I know theyre young and physically are fine but mentally its a lot imo. Multiple practices a day, 6-7 practices a week, etc. It becomes a grind and sports are supposed to be fun.

For coaches, its a keeping up with the Joneses situation. If a coach cuts back because he doesnt believe its right but the next program practices all the time he looks like a slacker and adds to the criticism on him. That leads to coaches encouraging players to specialize in only 1 sport. Its just a mess.

[sixcat 2,919]

1 hour ago, redtiger said:

Im a firm believe that football practice, or practice for every sports shouldn't be a year round thing. The VHSL allowing it has virtually eliminated kids playing multiple sports and those that do end up grinding themselves to a frazzle, and I wonder if its worth it. I know theyre young and physically are fine but mentally its a lot imo. Multiple practices a day, 6-7 practices a week, etc. It becomes a grind and sports are supposed to be fun.

For coaches, its a keeping up with the Joneses situation. If a coach cuts back because he doesnt believe its right but the next program practices all the time he looks like a slacker and adds to the criticism on him. That leads to coaches encouraging players to specialize in only 1 sports. Its just a mess.

Hubris among high school coaches these days is something to behold. Or at least, that's been my experience in the dealings I've had with them. Almost unanimously, they can't understand why kids, parents, administrators don't have the same burning passion for their sport they do. And should a kid have a "first love" other than the sport that coach wants them to have a burning passion for, that hubris leds the coaches to try to force the issue. Which in turn, drives the kid away from that coach and his hubris. 

I've told this story before but it's worth telling again. The basketball coach at Galax wanted a good friend of mine to talk his son into quitting golf to play travel basketball all summer. This kid is not your dads golfer. He's 6'-3" and weighs close to 200 pounds. He can stand flat-footed under the basket and two-hand dunk a basketball. But his passion since he was in diapers is golf. He is literally at Blue Ridge Country Club until dark every day. He's the #7 ranked junior in Virginia, has won several junior tournaments across North Carolina and Virginia, and is the reigning VHSL Class 1 state champion. This coach began pressuring the kid since the dad wouldn't do his bidding for him. So the kid finally told the coach, "I'm here to stay active when it's too cold to play golf."

Still, the hubris of the coach still wouldn't allow him to understand why anyone would choose golf over basketball so he persisted in harrassing this kid. So the dad ripped the coach a new asshole, in the middle of the gym after a game, in front of the stands full of parents and fans, and told him to never speak to his son again about the subject. 

[LacesOutDan23 53]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:08 PM, JDHoss said:

Declining enrollments, more entertainment options are just two of the driving factors. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of enrollment. Down here in South Florida, there are schools with enrollments of 3K+ that have 40-60 players on their roster. The game I went to last night, Treasure Coast (2,967 enrollment) had 54 players and Sanford Seminole (4,062 enrollment) had 62. 

Riverheads was 1A for the longest time, barely had enough to bump to 2A. But they are dressing and traveling in the 70s, if not 80s with a smash-mouth brand of football. Sometimes it is just hard to explain. 

[Cousin_Hoyt 87]

Probably been around a lot longer than most of you. Seen a lot of changes in high school sports. Matter of fact, I’ve seen 31 high school football teams play that no longer exist due to consolidation. We can also add a few basketball teams to that number like G.W. Carver. In ways, Consolidation has hurt numbers due to increased travel for some kids. However there are several other things also.

Redtiger hit the nail on the head with this year round practice. A lot of Coaches only want kids playing their sport. Also travel ball, I know someone who has one kid on 2 travel teams and their other kid on another travel team (3 different sports). My opinion, this travel ball leads to burnout for some kids and parents with all the practice, travel, and expense.

Another problem down through the years and some of you have probably seen it also, is Little League or Daddy Ball. Do I need to really explain this? There is a need to better organize youth leagues and make it fun for all not for a few. I’ve seen this Daddy Ball carry over into high school and what problems it can cause, especially with the numbers of players. 

Another problem today, kids have more things to do, lack dedication, and lose interest quickly. They are not as physically fit, they are softer and are use to an easier life. When some of us were growing up, high school athletics was the biggest thing in our lives, that not the case with a lot of today’s kids. So numbers are going to be low and will slowly continue to decrease for a lot of schools. 
 

Just our opinion.