Beano_31 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 In the preseason everybody is optimistic. Day 1 in pads exceeded expectations, tackling was very crisp, footwork and hand placement impeccable, underclassmen pushing upperclassmen for playing time, upperclassmen showing great leadership, and it’s the hardest working team the coach has ever had. Well we’ve all seen our favorite team play now, so it’s time for Overreaction Saturday! Let’s talk about what we’ve seen so far and some unpopular opinions that may or may not be correct. Feel free to disagree. After I kick back a few of these Natty Lights I will probably disagree with myself. (1) Graham’s new addition, Marcus Ray, is a great high school football player. But he’s the third best receiver in Tazewell County. Sage Webb and Josiah Jordan are better. Webb is one of the best route runners I’ve seen in sometime. (2) The drop off at quarterback from Allen to Lester will be greater than the drop off at quarterback from Moir to Cox/Simmons. I know most of you are yelling put the Natty Lights down. But hear me out, Cam was a once in a generation talent. 2A Offensive Player of the year (and defensive POY). Lester can have 3000 yards and 40TDs and Graham still loses 20 touchdowns. Meanwhile, do you think Graham has anybody on their staff who coaches quarterbacks better than Greg Mance? Well do you? (3) Graham will beat Bluefield on the opening week. Okay, now you are like he’s out of Natty Light and moved on to the Maker’s Mark, but things just don’t seem right for Bluefield right now. Several reasons as to why and all of them are understandable. A lot of I, I, I going around and not enough playing for each other it seems. Graham pulls the upset in week one. Graham 21-17 Feel free to disagree and add your thoughts. GMan, Gridiron60 and V-Cats 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eersfan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I don’t think Lester will have to be all that Allen was for Graham for to be successful. He’ll make plays when needed and be a great leader. And as for the Beavers , there’s a big difference between Glenvar and Pulaski County. They stepped on that field today this morning for the first time without lil Tony. I’m sure they were out of sorts but Freddy Simon will have those guys ready and they will be playing with emotion come that 1st game. Regardless of what Graham does against Beaver, the rest of their schedule is a cakewalk. Real Sasquatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokie1Pokie Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 On point one, the best receiver in Tazewell County plays QB for Graham. On point two, the drop-off at Graham at QB will be little to any, if any by game three or four. Cam was a super talent and player, but actually not a once in a generation player. He's a Div 1 player and solid, but he's not out of this world or something Tazewell County sees every 30 years. Cam was a Div 1 Defense Recruit, not a QB recruit. The biggest difference for Graham will be exactly what was discussed on this board in December last year, and that's the question mark from guard to guard on the OL. Those three spots are the question early on. You mentioned Richlands and Moir and want to hear an unpopular opinion? Moir wasn't a great passer and Richlands and Mance have left 1 to 2 more state titles on the field because of the lack of focus on running the football with some of those incredible offensive lines over the last 2 decades. I remember when the discussion among fans was how good or not good Richlands OL was blowing train width size holes in the opponents DL and early on, the question was who looks best at RB and whether he can get 1000 or 1200+ yds this year. That schema, thought, paradigm is gone and the question has been for a long time how well the Blues can throw it and how they completed passes in the 7 on 7s. That's a problem. It's one of the huge reasons Richlands has left one or two more titles on the field. Richlands, your not going to be explosively fast and your not the 1980s wide open 49ers or Oregon. Run the ball first and consider the past second. Only my opinion.....and since you asked for controversial ones, there ya go. Beano_31, redtiger, Gridiron60 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beano_31 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, Hokie1Pokie said: On point one, the best receiver in Tazewell County plays QB for Graham. On point two, the drop-off at Graham at QB will be little to any, if any by game three or four. Cam was a super talent and player, but actually not a once in a generation player. He's a Div 1 player and solid, but he's not out of this world or something Tazewell County sees every 30 years. Cam was a Div 1 Defense Recruit, not a QB recruit. The biggest difference for Graham will be exactly what was discussed on this board in December last year, and that's the question mark from guard to guard on the OL. Those three spots are the question early on. You mentioned Richlands and Moir and want to hear an unpopular opinion? Moir wasn't a great passer and Richlands and Mance have left 1 to 2 more state titles on the field because of the lack of focus on running the football with some of those incredible offensive lines over the last 2 decades. I remember when the discussion among fans was how good or not good Richlands OL was blowing train width size holes in the opponents DL and early on, the question was who looks best at RB and whether he can get 1000 or 1200+ yds this year. That schema, thought, paradigm is gone and the question has been for a long time how well the Blues can throw it and how they completed passes in the 7 on 7s. That's a problem. It's one of the huge reasons Richlands has left one or two more titles on the field. Richlands, your not going to be explosively fast and your not the 1980s wide open 49ers or Oregon. Run the ball first and consider the past second. Only my opinion.....and since you asked for controversial ones, there ya go. I value your opinion and you might speak from more experience than me. So, yes I could be wrong (wouldn’t be the first time). But from what I’ve seen Sage Webb has better speed, route running ability, and better hands than Lester. And as for Mance, well Mance is Mance and there is a reason he’s approaching 200 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eersfan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 What is the obsession with running the spread in the SWD? Some of these teams don’t have the speed or personnel to pull it off and they attempt it against teams that have way more speed than they do. Look at what Lord Butterscotch did to Beaver with a good running game. Teams like Richlands and Tazewell could surprise teams if they could balance a power game with an outside game to go with their passing game. Jason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Sasquatch Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1. I keep hearing from folks that Lester will be a big drop off at qb and I have to keep biting my tongue. Boy will folks be surprsed. 2. Talk about your over-reaction: Before you crown somebody the top receiver in the county, they need to have some stats to back it up. (He has to have a qb to get him the ball and that is debatable at this point). Not so sure that Ray wont end up on the top of that list. The kid is dynamic and yes, i have seen them all play. 3. Most Graham fans are picking Bluefield to win in week 1 and saying the key to both teams will be lineplay. Graham fans are also saying in order to beat Bluefield they will need a near perfect game and win the game at the line of sccrimmage. Lastly Graham could make it 4 straight against Richlands this year and possibly 5 if they meet in the playoffs. Beano_31 and starcityfootballfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Sasquatch Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Beano_31 said: But from what I’ve seen Sage Webb has better speed, route running ability, and better hands than Lester. Speaking of over-reactions. Webb is good, but he still has a ways to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan4VT Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Real Sasquatch said: Lastly Graham could make it 4 straight against Richlands this year and possibly 5 if they meet in the playoffs. That’s almost impressive until I remembered that Richlands beat Graham 15 out of 16 games from 04-16, and 10 straight from 08-16. 😎 Irishman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Beano_31 said: In the preseason everybody is optimistic. Day 1 in pads exceeded expectations, tackling was very crisp, footwork and hand placement impeccable, underclassmen pushing upperclassmen for playing time, upperclassmen showing great leadership, and it’s the hardest working team the coach has ever had. Well we’ve all seen our favorite team play now, so it’s time for Overreaction Saturday! Let’s talk about what we’ve seen so far and some unpopular opinions that may or may not be correct. Feel free to disagree. After I kick back a few of these Natty Lights I will probably disagree with myself. (1) Graham’s new addition, Marcus Ray, is a great high school football player. But he’s the third best receiver in Tazewell County. Sage Webb and Josiah Jordan are better. Webb is one of the best route runners I’ve seen in sometime. (2) The drop off at quarterback from Allen to Lester will be greater than the drop off at quarterback from Moir to Cox/Simmons. I know most of you are yelling put the Natty Lights down. But hear me out, Cam was a once in a generation talent. 2A Offensive Player of the year (and defensive POY). Lester can have 3000 yards and 40TDs and Graham still loses 20 touchdowns. Meanwhile, do you think Graham has anybody on their staff who coaches quarterbacks better than Greg Mance? Well do you? (3) Graham will beat Bluefield on the opening week. Okay, now you are like he’s out of Natty Light and moved on to the Maker’s Mark, but things just don’t seem right for Bluefield right now. Several reasons as to why and all of them are understandable. A lot of I, I, I going around and not enough playing for each other it seems. Graham pulls the upset in week one. Graham 21-17 Feel free to disagree and add your thoughts. You need to stay off the Natty Lite, Makers Mark, and whatever it is your smoking. Deleted Account and Beano_31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ryan4VT said: That’s almost impressive until I remembered that Richlands beat Graham 15 out of 16 games from 04-16, and 10 straight from 08-16. 😎 And you won the exact same number of state titles since 2004. 😎 starcityfootballfan, swva_havok_fan, Gridiron60 and 4 others 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridiron60 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, UVAObserver said: And you won the exact same number of state titles since 2004. 😎 This post literally made me laugh. When I read Ryan's post, I thought, well, he's got a point but touché my friend, touché! 😂 Deleted Account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokie1Pokie Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, UVAObserver said: And you won the exact same number of state titles since 2004. 😎 Which goes back to that "running the football thing" as a first option and then the pass, not the other way around. Hours of work and reps in practice in pass protection versus run blocking, and not that there's no run blocking, but the emphasis is pass protection over run blocking. Coach Mance is also a fantastic coach and a future Hall of Famer and I submit to you he's in the legendary status for SWVA. His innovation has made Richlands a SWVA and statewide powerhouse. But, there can still be some critique and I love Coach Mance, he's a great guy personally. But, the focus on pass first as an option over running first as an option has served Richlands well in SWVA, but when the athletes show up on defense (Bluefield as an example, or Turner Ashby, or Appomattox in a game Richlands should have won a few years ago), and the pass isn't open and they are forced to run, it creates a problem. The OL who has had most of its reps in pass protection can't simply shift to a solid run blocking line in one week. The thing is, Richlands has had some huge, massive and super strong and physically tough bruts on it's line over the years and they could have had the ability to be incredibly good at run blocking as a first option. For Graham having the opportunity to beat the Blues 4 times and maybe even 5 times in a row, it's very impressive for the reason Ryan mentioned, and that's the fact that Richlands owned Graham 15 out of 16 times. That's a credit to Coach Mance and the Blues program which has been solid and still is solid. It also means Graham has turned it around and kind of back to it's old form pre 2004ish where they were a regular contended and threat to win the Region and on some years, be good enough to flirt with a state title. I got the Blues at 8-2 this year. I think they beat Abingdon, beat Union, and beat Radford at home. I think they lose to Bluefield and Graham. Deleted Account and Ryan4VT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eersfan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I think when comparing Graham’s success with Richlands or Bluefield’s. One thing stands out. Strength of schedule. The SWD is pretty weak as it is. But How often does Graham step up their competition out of conference. At least Richlands will challenge themselves against a Blacksburg or William Byrd. Even scrimmaging a team like Belfry. Bluefield may have took their lumps against Botetourt but at least they stepped outside their comfort zone. Freddy Simon has done it for years. Playing 3A and 4A powerhouses at times and unlike in the VHSL, you have to win those games in WV to get points. He played 2 prep schools in Charlotte NC full of D-1 signees only for 2 A points. That takes guts. VHSL should abolish district play, if they did you wouldn’t see coaches stacking teams with transfers or weaker programs folding. The tougher teams would have to schedule up because their whipping boy former district doormat could drop them to schedule easier games to build their program. Let’s see Graham schedule a Tennessee High , Pulaski County, Lord Botetourt or even a 1A Chilhowie team instead of a depleted Fort Chiswell , Central Wise or a 1 win Princeton team. Test your depth and toughness during the season like most great teams do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridiron60 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Hokie1Pokie said: Which goes back to that "running the football thing" as a first option and then the pass, not the other way around. Hours of work and reps in practice in pass protection versus run blocking, and not that there's no run blocking, but the emphasis is pass protection over run blocking. Coach Mance is also a fantastic coach and a future Hall of Famer and I submit to you he's in the legendary status for SWVA. His innovation has made Richlands a SWVA and statewide powerhouse. But, there can still be some critique and I love Coach Mance, he's a great guy personally. But, the focus on pass first as an option over running first as an option has served Richlands well in SWVA, but when the athletes show up on defense (Bluefield as an example, or Turner Ashby, or Appomattox in a game Richlands should have won a few years ago), and the pass isn't open and they are forced to run, it creates a problem. The OL who has had most of its reps in pass protection can't simply shift to a solid run blocking line in one week. The thing is, Richlands has had some huge, massive and super strong and physically tough bruts on it's line over the years and they could have had the ability to be incredibly good at run blocking as a first option. For Graham having the opportunity to beat the Blues 4 times and maybe even 5 times in a row, it's very impressive for the reason Ryan mentioned, and that's the fact that Richlands owned Graham 15 out of 16 times. That's a credit to Coach Mance and the Blues program which has been solid and still is solid. It also means Graham has turned it around and kind of back to it's old form pre 2004ish where they were a regular contended and threat to win the Region and on some years, be good enough to flirt with a state title. I got the Blues at 8-2 this year. I think they beat Abingdon, beat Union, and beat Radford at home. I think they lose to Bluefield and Graham. Let's not forget that a lot of Richland's success in those years 2004 to 2015 is owed not only to Coach Mance but also Dennis Palmer, the defensive coordinator for Richlands during those years. I'm not taking anything away from Mance, he's a coaching legend in SWVA but when you think of Richlands as a powerhouse, one usually thinks of their defensive prowess. Palmer crafted one of the best consistent defenses in the state while there. Rex Bradshaw & Palmer did the same thing last year, by midseason, the were solid as any I've seen recently. It wasn't the defense that cost the Blues a couple additional state championships but it sure helped Graham win another one. starcityfootballfan and swvasportsnut 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 2000 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Real Sasquatch said: 1. I keep hearing from folks that Lester will be a big drop off at qb and I have to keep biting my tongue. Boy will folks be surprsed. 2. Talk about your over-reaction: Before you crown somebody the top receiver in the county, they need to have some stats to back it up. (He has to have a qb to get him the ball and that is debatable at this point). Not so sure that Ray wont end up on the top of that list. The kid is dynamic and yes, i have seen them all play. 3. Most Graham fans are picking Bluefield to win in week 1 and saying the key to both teams will be lineplay. Graham fans are also saying in order to beat Bluefield they will need a near perfect game and win the game at the line of sccrimmage. Lastly Graham could make it 4 straight against Richlands this year and possibly 5 if they meet in the playoffs. What where their stats last year. Receiving / all purpose / yac , etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 2000 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Meadows from Graham and Webb from Richlands we’re the only 2 freshman playing big football last year in the SWD . Not just playing, but high level playing. Remember that they are both young. Don’t remember any sophomores , other than Atkins at ridge view ( who is legit ) that are making that much noise. Be glad the young guys are pushing Lester and ray. They are good . All of them. We need these type athletes . I hope they all stay healthy and push each other all season. Gridiron60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swvasportsnut Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Gridiron60 said: Let's not forget that a lot of Richland's success in those years 2004 to 2015 is owed not only to Coach Mance but also Dennis Palmer, the defensive coordinator for Richlands during those years. I'm not taking anything away from Mance, he's a coaching legend in SWVA but when you think of Richlands as a powerhouse, one usually thinks of their defensive prowess. Palmer crafted one of the best consistent defenses in the state while there. Rex Bradshaw & Palmer did the same thing last year, by midseason, the were solid as any I've seen recently. It wasn't the defense that cost the Blues a couple additional state championships but it sure helped Graham win another one. Dennis"Snake" Palmer is one of, if not, the best defensive coordinators in the region. Is he on Grahams staff? Real Sasquatch and Gridiron60 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridiron60 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, swvasportsnut said: Dennis"Snake" Palmer is one of, if not, the best defensive coordinators in the region. Is he on Grahams staff? He came on their staff last year after two years not coaching football. I'm sure Mance wishes he'd kept him. I'm sure Tony Palmer is glad to have him. Rex Bradshaw & Dennis Palmer had that defense going like a well-oiled machine. They adjusted until things clicked, once they clicked, Graham's defense was brutal. I think they'll they be just as unforgiving this year too. swvasportsnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPF Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Beano_31 said: In the preseason everybody is optimistic. Day 1 in pads exceeded expectations, tackling was very crisp, footwork and hand placement impeccable, underclassmen pushing upperclassmen for playing time, upperclassmen showing great leadership, and it’s the hardest working team the coach has ever had. Well we’ve all seen our favorite team play now, so it’s time for Overreaction Saturday! Let’s talk about what we’ve seen so far and some unpopular opinions that may or may not be correct. Feel free to disagree. After I kick back a few of these Natty Lights I will probably disagree with myself. (1) Graham’s new addition, Marcus Ray, is a great high school football player. But he’s the third best receiver in Tazewell County. Sage Webb and Josiah Jordan are better. Webb is one of the best route runners I’ve seen in sometime. (2) The drop off at quarterback from Allen to Lester will be greater than the drop off at quarterback from Moir to Cox/Simmons. I know most of you are yelling put the Natty Lights down. But hear me out, Cam was a once in a generation talent. 2A Offensive Player of the year (and defensive POY). Lester can have 3000 yards and 40TDs and Graham still loses 20 touchdowns. Meanwhile, do you think Graham has anybody on their staff who coaches quarterbacks better than Greg Mance? Well do you? (3) Graham will beat Bluefield on the opening week. Okay, now you are like he’s out of Natty Light and moved on to the Maker’s Mark, but things just don’t seem right for Bluefield right now. Several reasons as to why and all of them are understandable. A lot of I, I, I going around and not enough playing for each other it seems. Graham pulls the upset in week one. Graham 21-17 Feel free to disagree and add your thoughts. Since were making predictions, Richlands has scored what 23 points on Graham the last 3 games? And being this is the best returning Graham defense in 30 years. My prediction is Richlands scores zero points against the G-Men in 2019. Edited August 18, 2019 by CPF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokiebird7 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, CPF said: Since were making predictions, Richlands has scored what 23 points on Graham the last 3 games? And being this is the best returning Graham defense in 30 years. My prediction is Richlands scores zero points against the G-Men in 2019. I'd be willing to put money on that Real Sasquatch and Deleted Account 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 2000 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Don’t kick the ball to Webb if your trying to pitch a shutout. !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridiron60 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Tiger 2000 said: Don’t kick the ball to Webb if your trying to pitch a shutout. !! I don't see a shutout. I see Richlands getting on the board at least with a couple girls goals. Forrest won't miss. If offense cannot get past 50 yard line then a shutout might be possible but still.unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, CPF said: Since were making predictions, Richlands has scored what 23 points on Graham the last 3 games? And being this is the best returning Graham defense in 30 years. My prediction is Richlands scores zero points against the G-Men in 2019. How much are you willing to bet? Remember, now, Forrest has incredible range for a HS kicker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfan Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 It’s at Richlands so would be very surprised if it’s a shutout. I think Graham wins by more than one score but a shut out would be a little crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Sasquatch Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, UVAObserver said: How much are you willing to bet? Remember, now, Forrest has incredible range for a HS kicker... True. They may score 3. Gridiron60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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