should union get a new head coach

[BearsFan88 117]

Here’s a hard pill to swallow: 

Union is good but not the juggernaut that people in Big Stone think they are. 
 

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

4 minutes ago, BearsFan88 said:

Yeah. People forget that PV and Appalachia were only shells of their former selves. 

 

56 minutes ago, redtiger said:

I dont have a horse in the race but he didn't take over championship programs, he took over programs that weren't very good.

In the 3 seasons before consolidation 

Appy went 6-5, 1-9, 5-5

PV went 5-6, 5-6, 5-6 

Turner has built Union into a perennial District and Regional contender 

 

Excellent points. I think many forget PV had 12 seasons after its last title ('98) w/ Robbins still at the helm. Appy had 13 seasons after its last ('97) w/ Tom Turner coaching for 8. Most people under 30 would have no recollection of the glory days.

[Melvin 22]

Bizarre to suggest that Turner needs to be replaced, but you could also find some people back in the day who would tell you that Phil Robbins and Tom Turner couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag. It takes all kinds I suppose...

[Real Sasquatch 1,865]

Hindsight is 2020.

[Weatherman 135]

Getting beat 48-13 by an undefeated team is not the head coach's fault. 

This is a ridiculous conversation.

[My2Cents 2]

The question is not if Union should fire Turner. It is when Travis leaves who are you going to replace him with. There are loud rumblings that the head coach could be gone before spring. Now like all rumors until it has weight to it its still just a rumor. The problem Big Stone and Appalachia have is that if Travis actually leaves for a bigger job is the remaining staff that could be promoted to head coach. If Union goes within then I believe you will see a huge drop off in wins and kids playing fall football for the Bears. The kids know what the problem is and its not the head coach but who is standing on the sidelines beside him on GameDay. The supporting staff that Union has is a complete joke. From the defensive coordinator having a gold plated Ps5 remote trying to run Madden 2021 defensive sets that he finds mid game on the big screen they have on the sideline to the buffoons wearing backpacks just clapping their hands and smiling cause they get to wear coaches gear every week. I feel sorry for Travis because he trys so hard with the hand he's dealt and every year its the same product year. People are dunce if they don't see the sideline as the problem. I know everything falls on the head coach but in wise county you have to hire county employees to be the coaches sometimes a regular person gets to help on jv or 8th grade but the rule is that coaches have to be county employees. The man has both hands tied behind his back and still has Union as the premier team year end and year out. The sideline is full of clowns that have held back Union since they have been here. Some longer than others. Time to clean house on the sidelines and get some people that are hungry for championships! Not worrying about what toys they have in their backpacks on Friday night. 

 

This is my first post. But I've been reading since the lpd forum. Just needed to rant. 

[CriticalNoise 182]

Travis may be the head coach and not the issue, the supporting staff may be the issue, but Travis is the “boss” and needs to step in and take over if things aren’t working. Instead of sitting back and throwing his hands up. 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

I think Turner is an incredible coach.  Any discussion about a new coach with Union is crazy in my opinion.  But, with that written, I never buy into the argument that you hold onto a coach that you don't want, or a coach who isn't doing a good job BECAUSE you can't immediately answer the question of "who would we get."  I just can't go with that logic.  If you are bleeding, STOP IT.  We don't decided whether or not to stop the bleeding based on which band-aide brand we can get or not get.  If I'm hurting, I want to stop hurting, and I don't make the decision to keep hurting or stop hurting based on whether I have Tylenol or Motrin available.  I read this rationale some on techsideline where there are actually people in favor of keeping Fu because "they weren't sure if we could get a better coach or not."  Again, what we know is....Fu is terrible, so get rid of him first, then worry about whether we get an upgrade or not.  

With the above written.  It totally does NOT apply to Turner at all.  He's a fantastic coach.  One of the better ones in Class 2 Virginia in my opinion.  Does he need to do something different on offense?  Yep, that's valid critique.  Tons of great coaches can make tweaks and do some things different, but that's a far cry from replacing the great coach, and Turner is a great coach in my opinion. On Turner and offense, just my opinion here as a fan and I'm not coach, but I know this.  You can be conservative (which Turner's philosophy clearly is) and you can be diverse at the same time.  For example with Union this year, you have a fantastic athlete at QB.  Why not a few QB read options, reading the defensive end, a few more screens, etc.  The offensive critique is valid in my opinion.  As many times as defenses just absolutely sell out on Lomax, can you imagine the problems that would be created for defenses if the QB lines up in the gun, takes the snap, and reads the defensive end and if the defensive end bites, the QB keeps the ball.  <-------That's just one example of how you can still be very conservative, but diverse and forcing the defense to be a little less aggressive.  There is zero reason in my opinion only, why a play such as that shouldn't be in Union's arsenal.  But, a coaching change?  Get real.

A team should NEVER be playing a goal line defense on you as a First choice, it should be as a second choice such as on the goal line, or after they have been absolutely gashed and have no choice.  Spurrier wrote that in his book.  Watch the Graham game on NFHS with Union.  Again, watch the game because you aren't going to believe this.  Literally in the first quarter, Graham is essentially playing a goal line defense.  They have 10 defenders in the box on most plays BEFORE the ball is snapped.  When this is Graham's first choice of defense, you absolutely have to do something offensively, be it formation or play calling, read option, screen, hitches, something to take them out of that defense.  Graham stayed in that defense all game long unless Union had 2 and 3 wideouts.  When you get a situation like this, it's more than just Graham being absolutely terrified of the run and doing whatever it can to stop the run.  Yes, that's part of it, but the other part is, they don't respect your playcalling.  They don't respect you enough to believe you are going to be diverse enough offensively.  Remember the QB keeper from Union in game one at Mitchell Stadium that went for about 50 yards early in the year?  That never happened in game two.  Never attempted.  Never called.  Remember the screen pass Lee High caught Graham with that resulted in a huge gain?  Sure, Lee High was blown out, but that's an example of a conservative play call that offsets an aggressive defense that doesn't trust you will be diverse enough offensively. 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

One more thing about offensive coaching.  Lee High and Union both, according the the Bluefield Dally had 247 total yards against Graham.  Yes, much of Lee's was in the second half, but a big chunk of Union's was in the 4th quarter against backups as well.  Lee has 1/3rd of the talent as Union, yet Lee's starters against Graham's starters moved the ball nearly/about as effective as Union did.  Sure, Lee could have got 100 hung on them, but it's still an example of a DIFFERENCE in offensive scheme coaching in Lee High's offensive coaching and Union's.  Again, just my opinion.  So, as for the Union poster who started the thread asking or questioning Turner's removal, I think it's borderline insanity.  But, as for offensive changes needed?  Very valid, and the post would have been far more potent and taken with much more seriousness, if it would have said something similar to this, "Does Union need to do something different offensively or make offensive changes."  Only my opinion.

[BigWinners 1,643]

19 hours ago, Liam McPoyle said:

100-73 (.752) ; not a single losing season in 11 years with, IINM, 3 Regional titles. The consolidation of powerhouses more often than not results in a less successful program. IMO, the only realistic chance for a Union title was 2017, which would have required the Bears beat Appo and RE Lee in back-to-back games. Union fell just short 23-20 to the Raiders that season who then beat the Leeman by 4. Perhaps tweaks to staff and systems are in order, but replacing Turner would be foolish, 

 

Agree with everything except Union absolutely had a realistic shot at a state title in 2015 but went to CC and shit the bed. 

[BearsFan88 117]

59 minutes ago, CriticalNoise said:

Travis may be the head coach and not the issue, the supporting staff may be the issue, but Travis is the “boss” and needs to step in and take over if things aren’t working. Instead of sitting back and throwing his hands up. 

Didn’t he get rid of Morris? Morris was a punk anyway 

[Liam McPoyle 1,863]

48 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Agree with everything except Union absolutely had a realistic shot at a state title in 2015 but went to CC and shit the bed. 

Yelp...after looking back, I stand corrected. The Clarke Co blowout was an aberration.  Appo, Union, Richlands, and Glenvar all had a realistic shot in '15. 

[BigWinners 1,643]

56 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said:

Yelp...after looking back, I stand corrected. The Clarke Co blowout was an aberration.  Appo, Union, Richlands, and Glenvar all had a realistic shot in '15. 

I'm in the camp 2017 was the best Union team bc of the absolutely insane defense and Mitchell was touching the ball every snap, but They had zero balance. A lot in BSG believe 2015 was actually better bc they could throw the ball as well as run it and the team still had studs like Mitchell and Stidham. They were 13-0, had just beaten a VERY good Glenvar team, beat a good Graham team by four scores, smashed Gretna, had beaten Richlands in regular season and were a well oiled machine. But they were overlooking CC and just had a terrible game plan and played terrible while CC played a very good game and capitalized on all the Union mistakes. Believe Bears had something like four first half turnovers. Just weren't ready to play, but if they had played up to their capabilities, I firmly believe they could have beaten Appomattox. Richlands had them on the ropes and couldn't finish it bc they couldn't really run the ball and eat clock. UniOn could. 

2015 and 2017 were the two legit chances Union had at a state title, and in both losses I think they were the better team. They spotted Appo 20 points in 2017 mostly due to special teams mistakes and still had a chance to win at the end, ran out of time. Graham folks may disagree and that's fine, but I believe 2017 Union would have beaten 2018 Graham. Timing is such a fickle beast. It helped Union win a title in basketball but has hurt them in football.

[SXSW 557]

I don't think that Turner should be fired, but they have wasted a lot of talent since 2016. Union fans must realize that they are never, ever going be as dominate as they were! Firing coaches in high school is really a hard in a small community you automatically create division and lose half of your fan base. I do believe that Union is in a rut and are just good enough to excite the community but not good enough to win a state title, which is the only thing that will quite the voices of dissention. I like the Union turmoil it is good for the message board but would hate to be part of the mess if I lived there.

[#BBN 128]

Turner needs to stay, he has year and year out took the Bears to the playoffs, and just can't get over the hump. I do agree maybe some cleaning up needs to be done on the sideline, but who knows what will happen.

[T8KNDookeez 100]

Fire the coach? As a member of a competing fanbase, HE SHOULD BE GONE TOMORROW!! Seriously though, with all his success, he has not done a good enough job? You seriously cannot expect to be playing for the State Championship every year. Fans/Parents like to blame the coach when the season ends but he's not on the field executing the plays. Union kids play hard, mistakes are made every game by every team, they are kids. To think the coach is the one to blame for not being as successful as you think they should be is ridiculous. Now, there are times in games when clock management and a few other things come into play and it falls on the coach but that guy has had a lot of success. I'd prefer to not battle him every year so you all be sure and push him out because he's not winning enough games. 

[TaterHater 89]

Anyone remember the Lowered Expectations skits from MADtv? Man those were funny.....some Union fans could benefit from the laugh.  

[tiger2001 20]

I honestly can’t believe we’re having this conversation.  Turner is a top level coach at any high school in the region. Maybe even the state.   If everyone knows what play he is running , every single snap , then a whole bunch of coaches need to be fired in the region for never stopping him.  

 Example.      The va high coach did a remarkable job this season getting those kids playing back to a respectable level.  They had talent all over the field .  Had a first quarter lead on union in the playoffs. Then the i Turner some how ran  the same play over and over and beat them by 20plus points.   He didn’t panic and continued to get the ball to Lomax with the expectations that he would wear them down and they couldn’t tackle Lomax late in the game. It worked.  It’s worked for a long time.  And like I said. Let’s fire the idiot coaches who loose to him since he is so vanilla.  Those guys , who he beats 70 percent of the time are the ones needing fired ........

[pvfan 32]

Delusional. Be careful what you wish for, it can get much worse. You all ever stop and look at past "great" programs and where they are now? The man is averaging around nine wins a year. He's from our community and relates to our kids better than anyone else we could get in here. We're not more than eight months removed from him winning the Region D Title with a team most of you all on here said was the worst team in school history! From a consistency stand point, that program is the best in the area. They have made the playoffs every year the school has been open and have won at least one playoff game for ten consecutive seasons. And some of you all want to fire the coach?

Back to my hole of mostly reading........

[TaterHater 89]

19 hours ago, Liam McPoyle said:

 

Excellent points. I think many forget PV had 12 seasons after its last title ('98) w/ Robbins still at the helm. Appy had 13 seasons after its last ('97) w/ Tom Turner coaching for 8. Most people under 30 would have no recollection of the glory days.

PV played for a state title in 2004 and lost a close game to Manassas Park. Question what was coach Jones' last year at PV?  

[cityofRaven 2,444]

I thought some football fans in Tazewell County were bad but you Union fans trying to run off Turner need to be committed into a facility. 

[PV8 8]

46 minutes ago, foosballer said:

PV played for a state title in 2004 and lost a close game to Manassas Park. Question what was coach Jones' last year at PV?  

99

 

[TaterHater 89]

1 hour ago, PV8 said:

99

 

And that there is the reason PV lost their mojo. It was never Phil Robbins it was Barry Jones.....where did Barry go after PV? Gate City?....How did GC do from 2000 till he left there?

 

Travis Turner needs to find his Barry Jones....defense wins championships! 

[SwvaOG 601]

He should look at what Greg Mance did…..build a base offense that can adapt to the skill players you have.  Some years Richlands slung it all over the field and some years they ran it down your throat.  

[Union_Fan 2,155]

40 minutes ago, foosballer said:

And that there is the reason PV lost their mojo. It was never Phil Robbins it was Barry Jones.....where did Barry go after PV? Gate City?....How did GC do from 2000 till he left there?

 

Travis Turner needs to find his Barry Jones....defense wins championships! 

I've been saying this for years!