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This post is in regards to the "Claiming state titles" before 1970 remark while referring to Narrows. In the 1920's and 1930's there were three classes in Virginia. A, B, C. The only class that had an organized system for a state champion was the A class which was the biggest schools. The VHSL record book lists those. In 1954 the "A" class greatly expanded as a lot of the B Class teams joined A. The future SW District teams of Graham, Tazewell, Richlands, Grundy and Va High joined class A. Covington was another team that joined class A. Class A rules stated that you must play a certain number of games vs other class A schools so SW schools started playing the Roanoke area Class A schools such as Fleming, Patrick Henry Roanoke and Jefferson. Grundy was even playing E. C. Glass in the 1960's. The schools from Roanoke were happy because they no longer had to travel to Richmond, Tidewater and NOVA to get class A games. But in the 1920's and 1930's the smaller classes would play regional and state class playoff games if both champions could work it out. There was no requirement to play these games. They were optional and many times schools declined. In 1939 Narrows was champions of their district and Bedford champion of their District. They played a playoff game and Narrows won. The Class C team from the Eastern Shore declined to travel to Narrows to play so Narrows claims a championship. In 1938 all the Class C teams declined to play so again Narrows claims a championship. There were very few years that these games went the full playoff rounds. Other examples: 1928 Big Stone Gap defeated Christiansburg and South Boston in Class B playoff games. Could probably claim a state championship 1929 Big Stone Gap tied Saltville in a class B playoff game and advanced on a coin flip and then tied Washington - Lee from Arlington. Washington - Lee traveled all the way to Big Stone Gap in 1929. There are lots of these games I have found but since I am still working on many Eastern class B and C teams I don't have a clear picture of what all went on.

This wasn't about putting you down. It was about comparing the histories Clintwood and Giles. For being a fan of the "big brother", you yourself always seem to think you have something to prove. Thank the good lord you're in the minority of the fan base.

I can't wait for this series to be over. Union gains nothing, and there's huge risks. Always dirty play, poorly officiated over there, etc.. Schedule a TN team or another VA team, no more KY teams.

My two cents... Gate City and Powell Valley stand out as the top two in terms of an "all-time" perspective. I give particular weight to the two state titles that they each won in the 1970-1985 time period. Appalachia was consistently good throughout its existence as well, so it's easy for me to identify the Bulldogs as a not-distant #3. I'm oddly ambivalent about including Richlands in this discussion. The current era of high performance (roughly 2000-present) has certainly been a source of pride and joy. But before 2000, the program overall had a W/L record hovering right around .500 (and the 1970's and 1980's were actually very bad in that regard). And I think Graham might be extremely underappreciated in this discussion. With rare exceptions, the G-Men have fielded a competitive product on the gridiron consistently since they started playing back in the 1920's. Graham was the only SW Virginia school to win a state title in football prior to the 1970 reclassification . And if they had actually been participating in Group A (and the subsequent Divisions 1 and 2) instead of playing up for as many years as they did after 1970, it's not hard to imagine that they would have acquired even more state and regional hardware than they already possess. Those are my immediate thoughts with regard to the "all time" discussion. If we want to limit it to the era that began in 1970, I can think of several schools that belong in the discussion. But it wouldn't change my observations in this post very much.

I'm sorry to hear the news on Turner. They work so hard and put there heart and soul into it. Praying for a complete recovery. Best of luck to the Union Bears the rest of the season.

Too many 3 different ones and I'm not saying who at all.

The last Regional game that I have seen was the 1951 game. From then until 1965 there were none and then in 1965-1969 they at the lower levels they were only half state championships. The AAA schools started playing playoff games in 1965 but only one round. If there were still undefeated teams after that round they were declared co state champions. There were no regional playoff games from 1952 to 1965 so no team had any opportunity to compete for even mythical state championships then. That leaves great teams of the era (Narrows, Gate City, Appalachia) on the outside looking in. Narrows was undefeated from 1961 through 1963 (9-0) all three years beating larger schools at Christiansburg, Blacksburg, Radford and all across the New River Valley and they never got to play in a playoff game.

I would say that is probably inaccurate because I was always told Coach Carlock would not schedule anyone below the division he was playing in. It was one of the bad things about Gate City dropping to A in the early 00s because that ended the GC/Graham series if my memory is correct.

As a historian here is my perspective. 1. Powell Valley pros 8 state titles says a lot - con almost never challenged themselves by playing up lifetime winning % .702 2. Gate City pros 5 state titles and consistently awesome teams - they played up at times - cons - recent poor teams winning % .683 3. Clintwood pros - 4 state titles and consistently great teams - cons - Would slip back to mediocre for a season or two winning % .673 4. Graham pros- 3 state titles and third place finish in 1958. Played up a lot (Bluefield, Princeton, Salem etc.) cons - less titles and periods of average teams winning % .591 5. Appalachia pros - 6 state titles - when they were good they were great - cons too many 1-9, 2-8 type seasons. Never played up except for Powell Valley. Too many wins vs Rye Cove, Ervinton, St. Paul etc. winning % .667 6. Radford pros - 2 state titles - consistently very good teams for a very long time - cons - not as many titles - not quite as good record as those above in the playoffs winning % .628 7. Giles pros - 4 state titles - 1980 AA title very impressive since there were only three classes. only one losing season since 1980 - they play up - Cons - terrible records until 1980 winning % .648 honorable mention - Pulaski County - for 20 years they were great % .633 - Richlands - for the last 25 years they have been great, before that they were very average to below average % .591 - J. I Burton - very good teams that couldn't get passed their Wise County neighbors most of the time % .575 - George Wythe - see Richlands % .602

Powell Valley had 5 sub .500 regular seasons in the history of the school. 4 of those came prior to 1970. The last one came in 1977. On the other hand, since 1970, Graham has had 11 sub .500 regular seasons..with 5 of those since the year 2000. PV also leads Graham in 7 win seasons since 1970 29-25. So, that justification can be thrown right out the window. (BTW Gate City has had 7 sub .500 seasons...3 of those were prior to 1962, and the last 4 have all occurred after 1997.).

In my non-objective and biased opinion, Gate City is the best historic program in SWVA history up and until 2017. I here what you folks are saying about Giles and Powell Valley and Appalachia and no question, Graham is definitely underestimated in these discussions. I don't include Richlands in the discussion. Richlands has 1 title in 92 and a great team it was, and then has been good since 2004ish. Other than this history, they were mediocre forever and decades mores. No offense Blues Fans, but it's true. Since 2003-4ish, it's been the Blues at number 1. Interesting Gate City Facts that supports my opinion, and disclaimer, I'm a fan and former player. 5 State Titles since 1970, BUT.....forget about these for a minute. Let me give some numbers that will surprise you before 1970. From 1956 to 1969 for Gate City High (14 seasons), there were 3 undefeated teams during this time for Gate City that were the best in Va. They simply were not AA and don't have a title to show for it. These teams were dominant for that era. Gate City had another 3 teams in those 14 seasons with only 1 loss, and the rest of those seasons, there were a few 2 loss only seasons. If we could measure titles like we do today or since 1970, Gate City High would have 8 titles, and maybe even 10. This is what makes Appalachia underrated. Appy has been very good (before combining with PV) for a long, long time, and I mean, back to the 1950's. PV/Big Stone had a great run of about 18 years, but they were not as dominant for as long. Even Shoemaker High (now GC High) was a powerhouse for years dating back well into the 1930's. Finally, look at the Gate City runner up finishes over the years. It's incredible. Win looking at total wins and winning percentage and playoff wins, and the rest, Gate City is the best High School Football Program in SWVA historically. This of course, is only my opinion. 1. Gate City 2. Appalachia (yes, over PV due to Appalachia's longevity of being competitive) 3. Powell Valley (ahead of Graham because of the volume of state titles) but they have not and were not as good or competitive for the length of time Graham has been) 4. Graham (yes, over Giles because of Graham's success and longevity of being competitive dating well into the 1940's and 1950's playing at a higher level of Classification than all of these schools). Has this program ever really been down? Think about it, year in and year out, a threat to win every game they play in regular season. A few downers after legendary Coach Glynn Carlock retired, but other than this, the program pretty much is never down, and even this year, a threat to win every game. Even during those few down years, 5-5 or 6-4 still, not many 3-7's in this programs history. They may lose to Giles or Richlands, but again, a surprise if Graham were to win this year? Of course not. It will be the same for them next year. Right in the thick of things. There is not question about it, if Graham were playing largely at the single A level over the years, it would have had far, far more than 3 titles in its history and those PV titles of the 1980's and 1990's would not be as large. Graham would have had a couple of those and Graham's enrollment numbers showed they should have been playing at that level, not at the level of increased classification it was playing, yet it was still winning and competing at the increased (outs of its enrollment) classification level. 5. Giles (rings matter and Giles has a bunch) Did you know that in 1996, Coach Harry Fry was flown down to Gainesville, Florida, before the Gators traveled to play in the national title game against FSU to give Steve Spurrier's Gators a "pep talk." Spurrier befriended Coach Fry early in his career and they remained friends. Coach Fry was so respected and admired not just in Gate City, but well reaching into Tennessee to include a friendly relationship with former Science Hill Star, Heisman Trophy Winner, and Elite College Football Coach Steve Spurrier. Folks, the Big Blue Machine was bada** It's been that way for a long time, so you can understand the temporary frustration of late with fans such as myself. It hurts.

Flip GC and Clintwood and flip Richlands and Giles and that should be just right.

Geez:( I hate to see any kid lose a season. I really felt with him at QB the Bears were a state title contender perhaps. Having said that if any team can adapt it's the Bears. They have experience,depth,and talent,and whoever takes the snaps will have at least a couple weeks to adjust and learn. I don't see LC giving them any problems nor RV either

The fact that Gate City isn't mentioned yet is damn near criminal. Just sayin...

Triple option would work well. Not so sure about the passing game.

Immature or not, there are rules here. Don't like them...you know the rest.

You just got a week in the chair...and apparently someone can since they just lost last Friday...

I didn't realize that, that's really cool. So in 97, we had D1, D2 and AA D1 champs, and D4 semifinalist in a 60 mile radius. And the smallest school was the second best!

M-O-N-E-Y. After WWII the Thanksgiving Day rivalries in the Richmond area and Tidewater areas brought huge dollars. It was normal for the Thanksgiving Day crowds for Granby - Maury games to attract 25,000 fans at Foreman Field in Norfolk. Newport News-Hampton drew between 10,000 to 20,000 each year. The same is true for the Thomas Jefferson - John Marshall game in Richmond. In 1968 the still segregated schools of Richmond, Maggie Walker and Armstrong, drew 29,000 at Richmond's City Stadium for their Thanksgiving Day game. The same is true for Washington-Lee of Arlington and GW Alexandria. Now after integration most white people moved to the suburbs and left the inner city schools and those games lost their appeal to many. By 1965 the Maury - Granby attendance was less than 5,000. This is when the prospect of playoff games became more appealing but it still had the problem that most big schools didn't want to give up their Thanksgiving Day games in lieu of playoff games hence only one round at first in early December. Maggie Walker finished undefeated one year in the early 70's but played their Thanksgiving Day game with Armstrong instead of going to the playoffs. They were actually disqualified from the playoffs because the rules stated that the regular season games had to be finished before a certain date and Maggie Walker and Armstrong continued to play on Thanksgiving knowing it disqualified them from the playoffs.

That was a very good year for this area. Lee High made it to the D4 semis that year.

Not to mention, in one of GCs state titles, 97, they would've been the third best LPD team. Lost to both PV and AHS.

I was just referring to Coach Carlocks scheduling philosophy only.

Has nothing to do with Graham/Giles...

Gonna try to record it tonight. I had some major issues pop up at VT this week and it's taken me off of my game. But I think I'm gonna try to record it tonight with rvtne214. Look for it tonight at some point.

I'll have to agree with you an Appalachia if there were playoffs going back 15-20 years you could add 4 or 5 state titles. Appy had a 5 year run from 1965-1969 were they went 47-2-1 and 2-2-1 vs gate city being their only blemishes and no one out east was going to stop Edd Clark

fixed it

Def tinted glasses. Just bc you've watched a lot of their games is meaningless. I meant to type 97. No team scored more than 22 points against PV that year, and the only game that was close was beating an Appalachia team that was state champs. Both teams beat 2A champs GC in regular season. It's all speculation, but saying any team beats one of the best PV teams by four TDs is crazy

Prior to GC coming back to the LPD around 1999-2000, many folks in Big Stone Gap didn't exactly look at GC as a rivalry. It was a big game, but the only "rivalry" up to that time was Appalachia. You could win that game and feel good about yourself.

I was always told that GC "played up". No idea if that is true. Anyone have an idea?

You are correct, and I actually meant to put Bluefield ahead of Graham, but when I typed it out, I didn't realize I had put them in the order I did..........Gray hair syndrome or maybe a freudien slip........I do think that Graham has the potenial to be better than Bluefield and Graham and the Gmen did have their chances to win that game..........but they didn't, so I was going to put Bluefield 4th and Graham 5th. I don't think there is a lot of difference between 3rd and 5th on my 5.

Passing through Whitesburg yesterday and noticed on the sign that this Friday against Union is going to be LCC's homecoming game. Wonder where the logic in that was. I hope the U drops 60+ on them.

I thought Richlands beat Union last year. Am I wrong? Maybe he's referring to this year's game. Who knows. The way his post reads certainly isn't clear.

Didn't Bluefield beat Graham?

A motivated team is a dangerous team. i don't think we'll see the team come out flat again this year, and if we lose then so be it. But they'll all be playing with 16 on their mind.

I hated to hear this news today. Really puts a damper on a promising season. Not saying the Bears are done, and they will still be better than most but it's a setback none the less. I agree that Qualls would be my pick. He's a veteran, has some qb experience, a good arm and like was mentioned earlier is much more mobile than Turner. Bailey just had the qb mentality. Lester may start at Letcher but I don't see it lasting. He can run but having him back there will limit our passing game. The 3rd option, if I am right on who it is, is a great athlete but hasn't played any qb since crunch bunch days. Gonna be a test of our coaching staff I think to find the right fit.

Bailey seems like a great kid, I just moved from upstate down here 3 years ago for work (hospital) and have been following the bears since. But in my honest opinion I feel that there may be 1 if not 2 in particular that is better than Bailey. He struggles to get the ball downfield to James, Zach Qualls in my opinion can absolutely play pitch and catch with James all night long. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

And you took a shot at narrows when narrows wasn't even mentioned

Post said, state title...not titles, just saying... lol.

Duh....clintwood.. we have a few state titles..

Leaving War going to Bradshaw. War has a fall festival that starts Friday, should be some street food vendors setup as you go thru they have stuff going on that night. Bud's, I get the tenderloin biscuit with a egg, things are big as a sandwich. Best biscuit I have found in this part of the world.

Did some research and they did add stripes. I love the all-black unis, but I think they overdid it on the helmet a touch.

In the game of message board moderation, troll loses to hammer every time!!!

FOR THE LAST TIME... BLACKSBURG IS NOT IN SWVASPORTS.COM COVERAGE AREA... NEXT ONE TO POST THEM IN A TOP 5/TOP 10 ON HERE IS BANNED...TRY ME...

Hope the kid gets well soon...hate to see anyone get injured